When Firms Become Too Powerful to Regulate

Gene Sperling — the only person to serve as Director of the National Economic Council under two presidents (Clinton and Obama), a senior advisor to President Biden who oversaw the American Rescue Plan, and a consultant and co-writer on NBC's The West Wing — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a wide-ranging conversation. Sperling shares the wild story of how he ended up in Santa Monica, his brush with Aaron Sorkin's legal troubles, and his insider take on how real Washington compares to its fictional portrayals. The conversation then turns to Sperling's deep expertise on the economy, from his defense of the Biden administration's "soft landing" amid global post-Covid inflation to the political lessons of how rising prices have sunk presidencies on both sides of the aisle — including Biden's own re-election bid.

The back half of the episode looks squarely at the future. Sperling, who says he's unlikely to serve in another Democratic administration, offers a forceful argument about what comes next: the rising threat of unchecked corporate and tech power, the urgent need for AI policy that puts working people first, and the lessons of globalization that policymakers can't afford to repeat. Drawing on themes from his book Economic Dignity, he makes the case that Americans are hungry for leaders who pair optimism with a real confrontation of economic injustice — and warns that a handful of AI and crypto companies, flush with lobbying dollars, could end up shaping the structure of the economy if left unchallenged.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Gene Sperling joins the Chuck Toddcast

02:00 The wild story of how Gene ended up in Santa Monica

03:15 Aaron Sorkin couldn’t meet with Gene due to legal trouble

06:15 Real politics/news look nothing like “West Wing” or “The Newsroom”

07:30 The one truism about the West Wing is good people trying to do good

09:15 Politics is NOT like House of Cards

10:45 West Wing still remains viable, any chance of a reboot?

12:00 What’s the state of the economy? What do you look for?

12:45 Biden economy was strong growth, but high inflation

13:30 Biden achieved the “soft landing” they were trying for

14:45 Inflation was global and mostly due to Covid supply chain shocks

16:15 The American Rescue Plan had many positive effects

17:15 Every head of state poured money into economies during Covid

18:15 Covid was going to result in either inflation or recession

20:00 Obama couldn’t pass enough stimulus during Great Recession

21:00 A little extra stimulus can help offset future unknowns

21:45 Millennials’ future was permanently damaged by Great Recession

23:00 A generation had never seen high inflation until Covid

24:00 Anger over inflation sunk Biden’s re-election

25:00 Inflation is bipartisan, took down 3 different presidents

26:00 Inflation affects everyone, jobs & unemployment don’t

27:15 Every head of state suffered politically post pandemic

29:15 Will Biden baggage sink Pete Buttigieg, or is that overstated?

31:00 Biden’s conflict was empathy for suffering vs touting achievements

33:15 Biden had the tiniest of margins to pass major legislation

34:30 Gene is unlikely to work in a future Democratic administration

35:15 Pitchforks are being sharpened for corporations and big tech

36:00 Will worker rage fuel the next election?

37:00 Presidents that do well offer optimism, but confront economic injustice

38:30 People don’t want to feel like they are being extracted for profits

40:30 AI growth can’t come at the expense of working people

42:00 AI policy should be shaped around improving conditions for people

43:15 What lessons from globalization can be used to alleviate AI disruption?

45:00 Clinton believed in robust response to globalization

46:00 Clinton couldn’t implement strong safety net after losing congress

47:45 You have to have policies where people don’t feel left behind

49:30 We need to create and fund jobs that create dignity

50:15 We need to create an economic dignity floor for all Americans

52:15 When is a company too big to regulate?

54:30 If companies are disproportionately determining policies, they’re too big

55:15 Crypto & AI are getting what they want from huge lobbying money

56:00 A handful of AI companies could determine structure of the economy

58:15 The Trump White House has invited corporate influence

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