He Was Somebody: David Masciotra Remembers Jesse Jackson
Keen On America
Debating David Duke: Engagement Over Avoidance
Andrew references the Duke debate; David explains Jackson's belief in confronting bigotry through debate.
"American culture likes martyrs, not marchers." — David Masciotra, quoting Jesse Jackson
A couple of days ago, a great American died. Jesse Jackson was 84. He was somebody. Even Donald Trump acknowledged the passing of "a good man"—which, as my guest today notes, Jackson probably wouldn't have appreciated. David Masciotra is the author of I Am Somebody: Why Jesse Jackson Matters, one of the most readable biographies of the African-American leader. Having spent six years covering him and more than 100 hours in conversation, he called Jackson a friend.
Masciotra borrows from Jackson on Americans preferring martyrs to marchers. It's easy to celebrate him now that he's gone. But when Jesse was being Jesse—battling economic apartheid, registering millions of voters, building a Rainbow Coalition—he had many critics and enemies, including some of those hypocrites now praising him.
Jackson's legacy is vast. After King's death, he focused on economic justice, securing thousands of jobs for Black workers and entrepreneurs. He ran for President twice, nearly winning the 1988 nomination. He pushed for proportional delegate allocation—without which Obama would never have won in 2008. He debated David Duke and, in Masciotra's words, "reduced him to a sputtering mess." He was the first presidential candidate to fully support gay rights. He slept beside gay men dying of AIDS in hospices. He marched with Latino immigrants from California into Mexico.
But perhaps most relevant today: Jackson showed how to build a coalition that transcended racial politics without ignoring race. "If we leave the racial battleground to find economic common ground," MLK's spiritual successor insisted, "we can reach for moral higher ground." That's the populist strategy Masciotra believes the Democrats need now—a vision, he fears, trapped between the identitarian politics of its left and the milquetoast neoliberalism of its right flank.
Five Takeaways
● Martyrs, Not Marchers: American culture celebrates civil rights leaders after they're dead. When Jackson was hard at it, he had enemies—including some now praising him.
● Jackson Made Obama Possible: Jackson pushed for proportional delegate allocation. Without it, Obama—who won small states—would never have beaten Clinton in 2008.
● Jackson Debated David Duke: And reduced him to a sputtering mess. Duke's response: "Jackson's intelligence isn't typical of Blacks." Jackson believed refusing debate only empowers enemies.
● Race and Class Are Linked: Jackson showed you can't substitute race for class or use race to erase class. Leave the racial battleground for economic common ground.
● Visionaries Win the Marathon: Jackson often lost the sprint but won the marathon. His Rainbow Coalition vision is what Democrats need now—and keep fumbling.
About the Guest
David Masciotra is a cultural critic, journalist, and author of I Am Somebody: Why Jesse Jackson Matters. He spent six years covering Jackson and more than 100 hours in conversation with him. He is an old friend of Keen on America.
References
People mentioned:
● Martin Luther King Jr. was Jackson's mentor. Jackson was an aide to King and was with him on the balcony the day he was assassinated.
● David Duke, former KKK leader, debated Jackson in 1988. Jackson wiped the floor with him.
● W.E.B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington represent a historic dichotomy in Black political thought. Jackson occupied space between positions.
● Rosa Parks was eulogized by Jackson, who noted that she succeeded simply because "she was available."
● Robert Kennedy shared Jackson's universal vision of coalition-building across racial lines.
Organizations mentioned:
● Operation PUSH was Jackson's organization focused on economic justice for Black Americans.
● The Rainbow Coalition was Jackson's political movement seeking to unite Americans across race and class.
Further reading:
● Masciotra's UnHerd piece: "Jesse Jackson Transcended America's Racial Politics"
About Keen On America
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States—hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
Chapters:
- (00:00) - Introduction: A great man died
- (01:14) - Martyrs, not marchers
- (02:49) - Jackson in the context of King
- (05:07) - The Booker T.–Du Bois dichotomy
- (08:14) - Did Jackson make Obama possible?
- (11:15) - The marathon, not the sprint
- (13:25) - How a white guy from Chicago became Jackson's biographer
- (16:32) - Jackson vs. David Duke
- (20:43) - I Am Somebody: the origin
- (24:06) - Transcending racial politics
- (30:26) - The Rainbow Coalition as progressive populism
- (33:23) - What Jackson teaches us about leadership
- (36:26) - Will Jackson be remembered?
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