Governance, obligations and agentic AI

🤖🧠 Thinking with Machines with Vasant Dhar

What happens when AI stops being a tool and starts becoming a collaborator and an agent? In this episode, NYU Stern professor and AI pioneer Vasant Dhar takes us through the real story behind modern AI, and the practical frameworks we need for AI trust, AI governance, and the coming era of agentic AI.

🚀 What you will learn

- Why “thinking with machines” is a bigger idea than “thinking machines”

- How the automation frontier separates low-risk automation from high-stakes human control

- Why healthcare has lots of data but still struggles to make good decisions

- Why mental health is a dangerous place to outsource empathy to machines

- What edge cases in AI mean and why they matter for self-driving cars

- How AI agents change the governance conversation, from obligations to restrictions to rights

📌 Key highlights

- A practical definition of trust in AI based on error rates and consequences

- AI in healthcare data: turning medical trails into usable decision intelligence

- The future of work: AI as an amplifier, not a substitute, unless you let it become a crutch

- Governance questions that no one gets to avoid once agents can act in the world

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About Dietmar Fischer:

Dietmar is a podcaster and AI marketer from Berlin. If you want to know how to get your AI or your digital marketing going, just contact him at argoberlin.com

Quotes from the Episode 💬

“Trust depends on how often a machine makes mistakes and the consequences of those mistakes.”

“In physical health, I’m very optimistic. In mental health, not so.”

“It’ll likely lead to a bifurcation of humanity… skills get amplified… or people rely on the machine as a crutch.”

Chapters ⏱️

00:00 Vasant Dhar’s origin story in AI and early expert systems

05:08 A Brave New World warning and why optimism still needs guardrails

07:26 AI in healthcare vs mental health and why feelings change the rules

12:37 The trust heat map and the automation frontier in real life

18:21 Edge cases, bounded rationality, and what machines pay attention to

26:03 The future of work and why AI amplifies both skill and decline

36:23 Governance, AI agents, and how much agency we should allow

44:05 AI wow moments and the next frontier: integrated machine senses

47:15 Where to find the book, podcast, and newsletter

Where to find Vasant Dhar 🔎

- Visit Vasant's Website, also to find all the links to shops with "Thinking with Machines", his book: vasantdhar.com

- Listen to his Podcast: bravenewpodcast.com

- and get his Newsletter: vasantdhar.substack.com

Music credit: "Modern Situations" by Unicorn Heads`

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