Rinse-and-repeat constraints of school systems

Drew Perkins talks with Valentina Devid to explore why the term "formative assessment" often fails in practice and how shifting the focus to Formative Action can lead to more sustainable, durable learning. Valentina shares her journey from a history teacher seeking "intellectual nourishment" to a professional development expert specializing in evidence-informed instructional coaching.

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The conversation highlights a critical "lethal mutation" in education: teachers becoming too tool-focused (e.g., using mini-whiteboards) without a clear pedagogical goal. Valentina introduces her company's Five-Step Short Loop Model—Orientate, Generate, Evaluate, Act, and Verify—designed to help teachers make intentional, real-time decisions based on student thinking.

A major focus of the discussion is the Verify (Mirror Question) step, which Valentina describes as a "humbling experience" that ensures the teacher's corrective action actually worked before moving on. Drew and Valentina also tackle the challenge of sustainability in professional development, discussing how to support school leaders in making informed, durable implementation plans rather than relying on one-off keynotes.

Finally, they explore the intersection of Inquiry-Based Learning and cognitive science, breaking down the "false dichotomy" between explicit instruction and student-led questioning. Valentina argues that while retrieval practice is essential for fluency, inquiry is a vital tool for sense-making and creating the retrieval cues necessary for long-term, durable knowledge.

• [00:09:24] Valentina's Journey – From a "question-filled" history teacher to seeking rigor in teacher preparation.
• [00:13:49] Sustainable School Change – The mission of her PD company to move beyond one-off training days.
• [00:19:39] Assessment vs. Action – Why rebranding to "Formative Action" helps teachers focus on pedagogy rather than just tools.
• [00:31:22] The Five-Step Short Loop Model – A walkthrough of the Orientate, Generate, Evaluate, Act, and Verify process.
• [00:38:08] The Power of the "Verify" Step – Closing the loop with mirror questions to ensure learning stuck.
• [00:44:48] The Three Strategies – Integrating the Short Loop, Sense for Quality (modeling), and Feedback Processes.
• [00:57:21] Training Teacher Perception – How to use "Pedagogical Road Maps" to anticipate student pitfalls.
• [01:00:34] The Implementation Gap – Why teachers sometimes grasp concepts but struggle with classroom techniques.
• [01:03:45] Inquiry as a Formative Tool – Using Project Zero Thinking Routines to make thinking visible for action.
• [01:12:14] Defining Durable Learning – Ensuring knowledge remains in long-term memory through intentional curriculum design.
• [01:18:00] The Craft of Teaching – Discerning when to provide less guidance to maximize "hard thinking".