Trends: body ideals, signaling, and class

In this no-holds-barred episode, we dive deep into racial and ethnic dating preferences using real data from OkCupid (the infamous 2009–2014 race & attraction studies), multiracial dater research, and more. We cover in-group biases, why some groups show little same-race preference, the surprising “boost” for certain mixes (like white-Asian), why black women face the toughest odds in online dating, and how media/culture shapes (or fails to shape) what people find attractive.

We break down hierarchies in desirability, reply rates, gender differences (women tend to be “more racist” in preferences), and why white men often top the charts while certain groups get penalized. Expect spicy takes on everything from passport bros to fetishization, media “go woke go broke,” and even our own subjective rankings (teased for a future paid video).

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. As people know, we got really scared after having, you know, videos taken down on this channel and potentially having our YouTube throttled. And so I said, I’m not gonna do anything controversial.

Simone Collins: Never

Malcolm Collins: again. Never again, never again. But at the same time, an interesting question occurred to me.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Which was, if you were going to create like a tear list of the attractiveness of different ethnic groups, that was objective, oh

Simone Collins: God,

Malcolm Collins: what would that look like? So I decided to look into this ‘cause I was like, surely somebody has done this before. And what I was really

Simone Collins: according to doesn’t just every.

Racial or ethnic or religious group look good to themselves? Like, don’t the Amish find Amish people the most attractive, even if it’s like literally they’re, they’re from very similar heritage. You know, just when, when people look similar to you, don’t you, don’t you find them more attractive?

Malcolm Collins: Some groups?

That’s true. Not in all groups. Is that true? So [00:01:00] we see that in some studies. Ba basically we’ll go through a number of studies. A number of studies will show that most groups have a preference for their own ethnicity. But in other studies most of the more honest ones. And we’re only gonna cover the OkCupid one briefly, because I assume that all of our audience is familiar with that study.

Simone Collins: Oh, I’ll cover it thoroughly. I, I can’t really remember. I went through it when it first came out, but OkCupid stopped publishing their research findings pretty early on because they were too spicy. It was too

Malcolm Collins: controversial.

Simone Collins: I people got too mad. Justified reality hurts. What

Malcolm Collins: you will see in those, if I’m remembering correctly, is blacks do not have an ingroup racial preference and prefer people of other ethnicities.

Simone Collins: Oh God, I forgot. Yeah, that was

Malcolm Collins: bad. That is not found in pretty much any of the scientific studies except for I think like one or two.

Speaker 2: Oh s**t, here we go. It’s on. Race, war. Race, war, race, war, race war’s on everybody.

It’s going down. It’s going down.

After editing this video, I [00:02:00] was wrong. It has sounded in more of the studies than I remembered, and I should point out here. I do not mean that they had a preference for other racial groups. I mean, they had a preference for the white racial group.

Speaker 2: Token Forfeit. Whites win. Whites win. Race, war, everybody whites.

Malcolm Collins: And I think the reason Yeah.

Simone Collins: But there’s a big problem with publication bias when people

Malcolm Collins: find Yeah. I would not publish it if my results came out that way. I’d be like, wait.

Oh,

Simone Collins: nor would I, yeah. Because we’re not crazy.

Malcolm Collins: African Americans are racist against African Americans more than other people are racist against African Americans.

Simone Collins: Right. Even based OkCupid stopped publishing this stuff, obviously.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. We can’t, we can’t have that be widely known. Right. So we’ll get into that.

And then what I’m gonna do with you Simone is because I really, you know, don’t wanna do anything offensive, don’t wanna do anything that can get clipped but. You know, at the same time I couldn’t find a good ranking between like Asian groups and between European groups and between

Simone Collins: Oh, like Vietnamese to Chinese to Singaporean, to,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

I wanna, I wanna get [00:03:00] that up. So you and I are,

Simone Collins: oh yeah. I would be really curious, like, do Japanese people think that South Korean people are really beautiful?

Malcolm Collins: No. No. So I wasn’t able to do that, but we will judge it. So we’ll go through faces of different asset groups and rate how relative,

Simone Collins: you know what, because

Malcolm Collins: you relatively attractive they are to each other.

Look at, look at the life. Leave her eyes. Look at the Malcolm. What are you doing?

You don’t like that. You don’t, you don’t love that. I’m gonna be

Simone Collins: okay, let’s go.

Malcolm Collins: Right? All right. Overall hierarchy in dating and desirability. I said, so this is an article Taboo or tabular Rasa Cross Racial Cultural Dating Preferences amongst Chinese, Japanese, and Korean international students at American universities.

Simone Collins: Oh, oh, that’s an interesting way to do it.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So, there was a clear racial hierarchy that [00:04:00] emerged in the student’s preferences for potential dating partners. Okay. And then of course, it argues, I do not know if I would argue this. Okay. That. That racial hierarchy is there because of influence from US media portrayals, cultural capital stereotypes and parental family experiences.

You

Simone Collins: probably would say that, ‘cause it would be the only way for you to be like, I didn’t sit, I just think, I don’t, I don’t even think they’re racist. I just think the media is racist to systemic something. Something. Yeah. I think that’s,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Understandable. Logical. Okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, they don’t wanna say, well, my students are racist.

Right?

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. No, they’re a product of corrupt and bankrupt system. But also, I mean, I think it’s, it’s, it is important to note that capitalism kind of speaks for itself. You know, that, that to a great extent. We, we talked about this briefly with DEI, ification of media that you’ll get this go woke, go broke thing when you stop.

Yeah. Casting super hot. Protagonists [00:05:00] or you start making video game characters like less sexy. The video games don’t do so well that there actually are forms of like, we’ll say male, male, gay romance that do really well. But it’s only when it’s actually more fetishized. Like when women are like, oh, look at them kiss.

Yeah, you,

Malcolm Collins: you put gays in

Simone Collins: stuff

Malcolm Collins: and you make it gay. Nobody watches it. You make

Simone Collins: it. Yeah. But if you have like hot women kissing, like, okay, everyone’s okay with it again,

Malcolm Collins: right? No, no. Yeah. It’s like, it’s like, you, you, and this is the, the funny thing is gays had such an easy marketing thing here. If you wanted to put hot lesbians and stuff, that would’ve been fine.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You

Malcolm Collins: could’ve gotten your agenda and not scared away.

Simone Collins: Your normal audience. There’s such an easy hack. But my larger point here is that I, I wouldn’t even say that media can effectively manipulate people because in the end. People vote with their feet or their, I guess their eyes when it comes to media.

If they don’t like something, they’re not going to [00:06:00] watch it. It’s not going to become influential media. So if you see a certain typecast in media that’s just showing up again and again, and it’s this type of person that’s, because that’s what audiences find broadly attractive. So I don’t think

Malcolm Collins: until, until the wokes get their hands on it because,

Simone Collins: well, yes, as we

Malcolm Collins: pointed out,

Simone Collins: but then it doesn’t perform well, it doesn’t, it doesn’t perform economically well.

We can’t look Track

Malcolm Collins: Academy. Right. So they’re like they could have put hot young lesbians in it. Instead they put fat old lesbians in it.

Simone Collins: Oh, dude.

Malcolm Collins: And that was not what anybody wanted to see. Not even

Simone Collins: the lesbians perhaps. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: To get an idea of, of of, of how much. It’s like they, they literally had a way to sell their agenda.

That, that the audience liked. And they’re like, no. Part of the point is that we make the audience upset. Part of the point is taking away the thing that the audience liked. Mm-hmm. We, we actively want the audience to have a, a bad time watching this. Mm-hmm. And, and that is what art is. That [00:07:00] is what artsy is.

And so then you get Gay Cowboys eating pudding or Star Trek Academy, right. Where literally it’s free on YouTube and it has like after four days of being up it was at like 139,000 views the last time I checked, which means it gets less fu in four days than our channel does on average.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Wait, gay cowboys eating pudding.

That sounds adorable. What is this?

Speaker 2: independent films of those black and white hippie movies, they’re always about gay cowboys eating pudding.

Speaker 3: No, they’re not. Independent films are produced outside the Hollywood system. All the glitz, glamor.

Speaker 2: Yeah, you show me one independent family that isn’t about gay cowboys eating pudding.

Malcolm Collins: Gay Cowboys Eating Pudding is a joke from South Park about what your average like student film is like.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: Where it’s like,

Simone Collins: but I think Brokeback Mountain, speaking of gay cowboys did really well, but I think it was, wasn’t it two hot men? Heath Ledger was in it.

He’s hot.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they, they, they, they played it up for women. That’s who that was for gay cowboys eating, that’s the thing.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I don’t know.

Speaker: The first film showing is called Witness to [00:08:00] Denial and is a sexual exploration piece about two women in love. Oh, my Uncle Jimbo has a ton of those movies in his dresser drawer.

Malcolm Collins: You know, the point of gay cowboys eating pudding as a concept is often art like that wants gayness, right? It wants something traditional, but then it also wants to be painful to watch.

That’s part of the artistic experience.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But that, that, again, is not the media that is going to influence people’s dating choices. But my, my larger choice is, no, it doesn’t work that way. People, influential media becomes influential only because it’s reflection of people’s desires.

Malcolm Collins: Right. Like that’s why the Pathways game Amelia became influential because she was our desires for her wife.

Hey, when I met you, you did not dress di that differently from Amelia. Mm-hmm. You had a long hair. You wore like Oh,

Simone Collins: very manic girlish. Yeah. No, there, there’s definitely a world in which the artsy goth girl becomes a conservative person.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I think that that’s what people are now accepting is that [00:09:00] the young version, and I know this from our fan base mm-hmm.

Our female fan base was mostly feeder kids and artsy goth kids, right? Mm-hmm. They were not preppy girls. Preppy girls became progressives. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Right? Yeah. Yeah. Because they’re conformist. I, I, I will, I’ll note another thing. ‘cause people might be like, no, absolutely. People’s aesthetic preferences and body preferences change with trends.

They’ll point to the shift from the BL look of a very voluptuous woman with a large.

Malcolm Collins: Never happened. Complete historical

Simone Collins: myth. It did, it, it did somewhat though I’m, I’m gonna argue it did. And, and going to the heroin chic look of now, however, this has to do more with an ancillary form of of what we were talking about this in another episode we did on peacocking of, of, of signaling.

And the reason why we went from BBLs to the heroin cheek look is that these things became the most expensive thing to do over time. So what wealthy people did when BBLs were popular was they could [00:10:00] afford to get. A very, very expensive, like the bbl, LA Brazilian butt lift is a surgery in which they’re taking fat from, say your thighs and inserting it into your butt.

You have to be out of work for a long time. You can only lie in your stomach. Like it’s really, it’s kind of like the, like lengthening surgery for women that has a little bit of a fast rate. I

Malcolm Collins: argue that, oh, you’re talking about the butt lift thing. Okay. So I’m gonna point out that the butt lift thing was actually a completely different phenomenon than what you believe it is.

The, the butt lift thing.

Those make women look more like co-sign. And that is a unique gender dimorphic display. Yeah, the co if people wanna watch our episode on the co-sign, they’re one of the ethnic groups in Africa. The episode that we watch when it goes over, and if you didn’t know this, this episode’s gonna blow your mind.

They genetically speaking, not in terms of when we split off from them, but in terms of SMPs

are more distinct from European populations today than Neanderthals are. And they have different sex displays than other [00:11:00] groups. Yeah,

Simone Collins: but also large. Large glutes, gluteus max, like a large, large buttocks.

Malcolm Collins: They also have like large long labia, for example, like their genitals just

Simone Collins: looked Yeah. I’s trying to do that. What I, what I’m saying is it’s a very gender dimorphic female trait of like having No,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no. The point I’m making here is that the women who were doing this, mm-hmm. If you look broadly, almost all of them had a black audience.

That is who they were doing it for. That was the fan base they were doing it for. It was for people who were optimizing for a different ethnic look. This is something that you see,

Simone Collins: Well, but now why would the Kardashian family, for example, shift than its family? Who is their

Malcolm Collins: audience?

Simone Collins: Yeah. What are you saying?

Their audience just shifted to white people then because they, they got rid of their big buts. They got rid of all that number one. I, I think they, i it was the rise of o Ozempic that changed this. It is When Thin became cool because thin became a financial flex.

Malcolm Collins: I, I disagree. I think that they are waffling between appealing to their audience and status, and as they [00:12:00] secured more st like, like audience, they no longer need to appeal to it as much.

If you wanna know, I’m not gonna go that far into the, people have never found fat people attractive. Mm-hmm. But if you look at, there have been a number of studies on intercultural. Aesthetic ranking mm-hmm. That I actually went into when I was going over this data. And while people have different preferences for ethnicities mm-hmm.

If your ranking within an ethnicity people across ethnic groups generally do that about equally. So if you have an African ranking English people in a, like a list of 10, they will rank them the same way an English person would. And if you get an English person, you go to Africa and do that.

The only instances historically that we have where genuinely obese people were preferred over non-obese people were when that was a sign explicitly of wealth. And it went away as a preference when wealth was no [00:13:00] longer correlated with being obese in those cultures. So basically, when those societies industrialized that beauty standards disappeared in every single instance, we’re aware of it.

So, no, it never happened. And then you’ll people point to history. They’re like, well, in history you have KO or whatever his name was one painter who painted obese women and had an obese wife, Rubens Rubens. It’s like, no, he was just a chubby chaser. Nobody else during that period was painting like that.

This guy was a fetish artist. And like, people got into his fetish art, right? Like that happens today, right? Like you could point to furry art today and being like, this proves that all men want a cat wife. And it’s like, no, this is just a popular form of

Simone Collins: furry art. All men want. Want a cat girl? Don’t, don’t even my, okay, let’s get back to these Asian college students.

I wanna know. Oh, so lemme lemme guess. South Korean first.

No,

Malcolm Collins: no, we’re not getting to that because that hasn’t been studied in any study. We need to

Simone Collins: go there. Oh, they didn’t, I thought they were looking at what, like

Malcolm Collins: a Asian college students. They

Simone Collins: were, they split

Malcolm Collins: into [00:14:00] white Americans, Asian Americans, African Americans, Latino, east Asians.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: So what they showed was white Americans were the most desirable, Asian Americans were the second most desirable.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And, and only slightly below white Americans.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Then African Americans, Latinos, and Southeast Asians were the least desirable. Just

Simone Collins: all, even grouped together.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, they were just all, like, nobody wanted to date them outside of their ethnic groups.

However, there was a preference within a group, so it’s 35 out of the 47 students, or 74.5% initially express expressed a preference for dating someone of their own cultural background. Okay. That makes sense. Chinese, Japanese, Korean, et cetera. Yeah. So this is actually a really interesting point here.

Mm-hmm. People will say, you as a white person are racist if you say you have a preference for dating or having sex with, or having in your arousing content, spank bank, white people. Right. But it’s not [00:15:00] even,

Simone Collins: it’s, it’s culturally matched white people

Malcolm Collins: and yet we know that cross-culturally, this is just a true thing.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, and again, the note that the, the research said culturally matched and note that anecdotally. When I was on OkCupid, I keyword stuffed my profile with internet memes. My photo was of me in stor in film grade storm trooper armor. Like I was trying to find someone who wasn’t a sports fan, who wasn’t a, a FinTech bro.

It, it was for literally like a, a startup nerd.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so they say culturally matched and then they listed a bunch of ethnicities.

Simone Collins: Well, right, but that’s Chinese,

Malcolm Collins: Japanese, Korean, or ethnicities.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But culture and ethnicity often go hand in hand.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay. I’ll buy that.

Malcolm Collins: Continue.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So I think what you’re trying to do is find someone.

With whom there’s less social friction and with whom you don’t have to negotiate a new social contract with everything.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: What It’s very stressful to [00:16:00] date someone who doesn’t share the same tacit understandings of this means that, and that means that. And because you’re just gonna have such a, and people make it work all the time.

We, we are at record levels of people who are having cross-cultural, cross religious, cross ethnic or racial relationships. It is totally doable, but it is more stressful. And the research is pretty robust on that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And here I’ll note that like, the, the, the in group preference, it pretty much, I think anyone has.

With arousal. It is so effing weird that we have normalized one ethnicity isn’t allowed to say that.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: If a black person says, I prefer dating and having sex or getting off to black people, nobody batts an eye. Mm-hmm. If a Hispanic person says that nobody bats an eye if the Southern European person says that nobody bats an eye, but if a white person says that, all of a sudden everybody freaks out.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I’m sorry, I I have to point that out because I think that a lot of people forget, there’s been this weird mixa ru card game done where [00:17:00] everybody is like weird about like Latin Americans, but they’re like, totally okay with Southern Europeans as an ethnic group. And I’m like,

Simone Collins: they’re the same ethnic group.

Malcolm Collins: It’s literally the same people. These are the descendants of Spaniards and Italians. Like, what are you, what, how, why are they exactly like every other American, but. Latin Americans aren’t. If, if we’re going to divide them, we might as well be honest in how we’re doing the division. But then uhoh, people start noticing patterns and you have to start dividing Catholics and Protestants again, which is a problem.

And so then people ignore that. That’s, that’s the main reason that we pretend that they’re not too ethnic groups. Mm-hmm. And, and they look very different actually, when we get to the pictures of attractiveness you, you see them as being quite different in terms of the average ‘cause we’re gonna go to facial averages.

And I, and I’ll also note here, one thing that I find interesting about myself, and I don’t know, we can get this from the audience as well, but there’s some ethnicities that I find almost [00:18:00] as attractive as white people. When, when I can tell they’re an average ranked attractiveness, same. And there’s other ethnicities where it’s clear to me that I’m applying some sort of negative modifier to would I sleep with them?

Simone Collins: Interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Which also would be,

Simone Collins: have always said on multiple episodes, Japanese plus Irish,

the

Holy

Malcolm Collins: Grail. Yeah, that’s, that’s, yeah. A lot of the white mixes come out really hot. I, I think also I’ll just drop my cards here. I think Indians specifically North Indians can be really hot. Gorgeous.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Interestingly, I think that there’s this myth of the Hot Asian, but like in practice like, like actual Asians I have in, in my life, never actually,

Simone Collins: well we both admitted to ourselves when walking down the streets and sold that we were just bringing down the average attractiveness of the entire 100 foot.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. It might be that it’s not culturally or it’s never been culturally worse. Me dating an

Simone Collins: Asian, they’re attractive. You just don’t wanna bang them. Maybe. I don’t know. I, and I, I can’t [00:19:00] really understand ‘cause I, I don’t, I’ve never seen someone in, in like them, like I wanna. I just don’t function that way.

So, well, you’re

Malcolm Collins: gonna need to, because we’re gonna do some ratings here, Simone, so you’re gonna need to let me know of

Simone Collins: based on bankability or based on just how pretty they are. ‘cause that’s a different thing.

Malcolm Collins: Base base. Let’s, let’s do both. Let’s do both here. Okay? Mm-hmm. Okay. So a 2020 study found that a racial hierarchy emerges from multiracial daters consistent with past research.

Oh. All groups responded to their own in-group, most except for Hispanic white women. So this was looking at mixed groups who preferred white men. So, in the only group where you had one group preferring another ethnic group, it was Hispanic slash white who preferred white. And, and, and keep in mind we’re saying Hispanic, we’re basically saying Southern European, but for some reason we’ve divided them into a separate ethnic group.

Mm-hmm. They, they don’t have that much Native American DNA. They have I think even in like high circumstances, like [00:20:00] 20%. Hmm. Which is not enough for me to think of them as, as separate from just. Spaniards.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and they don’t look different than Spaniards. Like, have you been to Spain or Italy?

Like, they look like Argentinians or Mexicans. Like, what, what? Mm-hmm. What, what are we going on about here? Alright, so next study here, tipping the multiracial color line.. Racialized preferences of multiracial online daters. Oh, and that was the study we were just reading there.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Another interesting thing here is, oh, they, they have charts on this one, so I’ll put the charts on the screen here.

Yeah. So we can see white women responding what they think of different ethnic groups, and we can see white men responding what they think of various ethnic groups.

Mm. And what you see here is that white women if you’re looking at Asian white, those appear at the same rate or hotter than white men. The error bars push them higher because it’s it’s, it is whiter. There’s, there’s more variance and preference there. Mm-hmm. Black, white is, is, is [00:21:00] significantly lower.

They, they like that lower Hispanic white is pretty high, almost as much as white men. Or, or should say Southern European, white. And then if you look at, or should I say Catholic, white? Really piss people off. People point out the Irish or Catholic. I know there’s one northern European Catholic group.

Good for them. Then you have let’s do that. That’ll piss people off more. So it’s more fun. Look at her eyes rolling into her head here. My God. So what, but what’s interesting is that white women, the ones who will freak out at you for saying you have a racial preference

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They have way stronger racial preferences against dating or finding attractive Hispanics, blacks or Asians than white men.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But typically the pe I mean, there’s this whole thing where if someone’s uniquely homophobic, they might have a little bit of a same sex attractive. Right? Like people tend to get really defensive around things that they find offensive. [00:22:00] People only find things offensive when they credibly. Threaten their worldviews.

Yeah.

And you’re only only gonna feel credibly threatened around racism if you actually have racist feelings. So I totally understand that. If you’re like, wow, I like really?

Malcolm Collins: So this is really interesting. So white women mm-hmm. Have really do not like, like straight Asian, black or Hispanic in this chart.

White men, they like Hispanics or Catholics, let’s put it this way, just as much as they like white people. Asian, white.

Simone Collins: But do you see this with passport bros. Yeah, you don’t hear about passport. What, what we call them passport chicks. Passport,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Yeah. And, and remember how we both said that Asian white is a uniquely hot mix?

Mm-hmm. White men on average agree to this. White men prefer half Asian, half white women over white women.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And they also prefer Catholic white women over white women but only slightly. And, and black, white, they barely care. But what’s interesting is they’re just [00:23:00] not that racist in their preferences.

What, what’s interesting is they prefer the, the Southern European group about the same as they prefer the white group. Mm-hmm. Whereas women have an aversion to them that’s both strong and almost as big as their aversion to dating black people. But the Asian

Simone Collins: could this also be due to cultural differences?

Because maybe on average they think that those groups are more traditional in the sense that they’re going to expect more from them. Like the only people who are gonna to, okay, so like put this in the words of many people who are in the comment sections of our podcast, the only people who are gonna tolerate the feminist b******t of white women are white men.

Does that make sense?

So maybe they prefer to date white men as a result because those, they just tend to like bend over and take it more.

Malcolm Collins: No, I think what we’re seeing here is men will screw anything that they can get pregnant unless there’s like some externality. Mm-hmm. And so, you’re seeing less because I think that many men here are thinking about like, sex and not dating.

And these charts, they’re talking about how arousing is a [00:24:00] face.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So they’re just like, yeah, I’ll, I’ll

Malcolm Collins: screw anything. I mean, come

Simone Collins: on, put

Malcolm Collins: it in front of me. But

Simone Collins: as we’ve seen from those famous and amazing studies where there’s just a random person on a college campus who’s like, Hey, wanna go, like, wanna go right now?

And they’re like, yeah, let’s do it.

Malcolm Collins: Huge portion of men are like, yeah, sure. Why not?

Simone Collins: Yeah. No questions asked.

Malcolm Collins: And to be the person who got paid to do that, oh my God.

Simone Collins: I would just, I couldn’t do it because I would feel so bad to be like, psych,

Malcolm Collins: psych.

Simone Collins: That’s not nice. Don’t do that psych

Malcolm Collins: buddy. So, so, so anyway, so mean, it’s really mean.

The, the other interesting thing here is the one ethnicity that white men do have a, a stated anti preference for mm-hmm. Is straight black women. And it’s, it’s not as big as white women’s, but it is still pretty big. And I would say, like, if I search myself, God, I don’t want this clip, but like I, I know that it, I have less of a [00:25:00] preference for black women than women of many other ethnic groups.

This, this doesn’t mean that there are not, I’ve, like, I’ve slept with actually the only now if, if we’re counting his, like Catholics, I’ve slept with lots of Catholics, so we’re not counting them. But if we, if we’re talking about like what normal people would think of as non-white ethnic groups out of everyone I’ve slept with and people know, I’ve slept with a lot of people, I’ve only slept with one person who wasn’t white coded and that was a black person.

So I, I, I clearly, in terms of like where I’m putting my effort, I had a preference. Right. And that preference seems to match with this, you know, the, the, did I ever sleep with somebody who is Hispanic? I don’t think I did.

Simone Collins: I think sometimes

Malcolm Collins: a of Irish from Good tell a lot of, and Italians but never Hispanic.

Mm-hmm. Lots of Irish. So, anyway,

Simone Collins: that, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: To keep going here. And then if we look at the different groups, so I’m not gonna go through them all. We’re not gonna go as deep well them, but if we’re, if we’re looking at [00:26:00] Asian women mm-hmm. It is Asian, white is the highest preference, then white, then Asian.

That sucks to be Asian with that. Okay. Holy, holy. For Asian men it’s Asian, white. Then Asian, then white.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Demographically again, you know, like whenever there’s some kind of demographic collapse issue that comes up, I’m just like, there’s a

Malcolm Collins: lot of, there’s a lot of people in the prenatal list movement who are Asian white couples.

They’re

Simone Collins: gonna be I know, but that’s the thing. Yeah. I mean, they’re, they’re single handedly keeping going, going, but also, I mean. Not necessarily, ‘cause they’re mixing in their own history and culture with their kids as well. So their kids are not necessarily, I dunno, many

Malcolm Collins: Asians that wanna keep their culture, if I’m gonna be honest here, a lot of Asians.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean that’s one of the big arguments that’s made up when, or presented when, for example, south Koreans are asked why they’re not having kids. Why would I bring another kid to experience what I experienced growing up, the tests, the anxiety, the, the grind. Yeah. I, [00:27:00] it’s, it’s understandable. Well,

Malcolm Collins: no, even when they come to the US they often don’t, like, I, I mean, I, I point out, I think that’s why South Asians, IE Indians are less affected by the urban monoculture than East Asians because they have more of an affinity for their own culture.

Mm-hmm. There’s like things about being Indian that are sold to them as kids that are fun and cool and better than the urban monoculture. Whereas all of the additional stuff of East Asian culture, the Confucianism could just feel like extra rules and obedience and needing to care about old people.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s really, what’s so interesting is I had I had friends. In school, good friends who were Chinese, Vietnamese, and South Korean. And it, the, the only one who had an amazing family life who would definitely carry on her culture was Vietnamese. And the others just had home lives that were pretty cold that I, they, I think they really didn’t wanna pass on.

And, and they also don’t,

Malcolm Collins: well, no. Okay. So here’s a great example of this. If you’re looking at East [00:28:00] Asians, who I’ve seen that do want to pass on their culture mm-hmm. And do like, one that I consistently fear Filipinos. But

Simone Collins: yeah, Filipino. Oh yeah. They had amazing family. Yeah. No, I had some Filipino friends too.

Yeah. They had awesome families. They would like, they were fun.

Malcolm Collins: They tell, yeah. They’d be like, I wanna do, and the reason why, yeah. The Filipinos wanna do Filipino stuff with Filipino kids, like even if they date or marry interracial. Mm-hmm. They tell their spart partner. Hey, I wanna do like the types of barbecues that I did when I was a kid and the types of unique traditions I did when I was a kid, because those were fun.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I think that a lot of, now the way that you solve this with East Asian traditions, like, Chinese and Japanese and stuff like that, and I’ve seen it. Mm-hmm. Taiwanese, I’ve seen this done well. Mm-hmm. Is if you’re in like the Bay Area where I hung out with some of my friends who did wanna carry on their culture mm-hmm.

They would go to schools that were like specifically for the descendants of that ethnic group.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: Chinese

Simone Collins: schools. Yeah. I had a bunch of friends who went to Chinese schools and

Malcolm Collins: they were like white, more cool, excited [00:29:00] about Chinese culture,

Simone Collins: the ones I knew who went to Chinese school, although they were much more entrenched in their communities.

So there was that. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let’s go to the next one here. Hispanic women. Hispanic women. Okay. Prefer Hispanic white men the most.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Thin, white. Mm-hmm. Then Hispanic. So we’re getting a lot of

Speaker 2: Oh s**t, here we go. It’s on. Race, war. Race, war, race, war, race war’s on everybody.

It’s going down. It’s going down.

Token Forfeit. Whites win. Whites win. Race, war, everybody whites.

Simone Collins: .

Yeah. I mean, we are so No, no, no. We’re not

Malcolm Collins: gonna say anything nice about, it’s about to, it’s about to get worse, Simone.

Simone Collins: Don’t tell me that.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So let’s look at Hispanic men. So, Hispanic men prefer Hispanic women Most

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Than white women than Hispanic, white. [00:30:00]

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Which is an interesting one. No, no. This is where it gets spicy.

Simone Collins: Wait, what, what is the difference between Hispanic and Hispanic White?

Malcolm Collins: These are people who are half Hispanic and half white.

We’re looking at interracial. Oh,

Simone Collins: oh,

Malcolm Collins: sorry.

Simone Collins: Sorry. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: And why interracial is interesting is we see a giant boost to being half white. If you’re half white, you typically outcompete that group’s own ethnicity. Even e even, even when and, and you even see this for e even when. White is not the preference over that group.

Simone Collins: Hey, remember, remember though? Remember when I, when I had that, that I did that episode on cousin marriage and interracial marriage, and my takeaway was like, okay, either you should marry your third or fourth cousin, or you should marry someone of a different race with some little considerations and caveats based on what sex you are.

Like if you’re a white dude, be careful about marrying an Asian or [00:31:00] African woman. Just ‘cause their gestation windows are a little different. Or just be, be proper to maybe have a slightly premature born kid. That’s it though. Like, that’s it. That’s fine. So yeah, I, there their

Malcolm Collins: gestational windows are, are slightly shorter and the

Simone Collins: baby

Malcolm Collins: doesn’t know that.

And there’s been some, like the genes of the baby don’t know that. Mm-hmm. And so it expects a longer gestational period and so it’s like having a preemie with a normal,

Simone Collins: so it’s Ted. Yeah. So you just make sure you have good health insurance.

Malcolm Collins: No, but there’s a really, the nicu, very expensive Good study on this that basically proves it beyond any shadow of a doubt from my perspective that showed that if you look at the children born to interracial couples mm-hmm.

Where one of them is of Esic group that has a shorter gestational window

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: If that one of them is the male you see? No.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Whereas if she’s female Yeah. Her body’s

Malcolm Collins: female and that’s because that’s where it’s being carried. Right.

Simone Collins: So there’s eviction notice. Yeah. So, but, but that’s, so that is a very manageable risk, assuming you have good.

Medical, like prenatal and postnatal care we’re, that’s very manageable.

Malcolm Collins: We’re looking to a spicy one here, [00:32:00] and I just, for people wanna know, they wanna verify this stuff. This is from positioning multiracial and cyberspace, uhhuh treatment of online daters in an online dating site, January, 2015. Okay, so now let’s get to black women.

Black women’s preference goes white men.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Black, white men. Black men. They think white men are the most attractive than black. White than black. That is,

Simone Collins: God. What’s so bad about this? J And actually, I, I saw we saw this. People we know anecdotally, like black women, we know anecdotally. We’ve seen this.

Malcolm Collins: Well, this, this gets me. Why is it that black women can have a, oh, oh, hold on. It’s the same for black men by the way. Preference goes black, white is the highest, then white, then black.

Simone Collins: But we know this with black men. We know anecdotally do.

Malcolm Collins: Why do black men get to say in their, in, [00:33:00] in their, in their actual observed preferences in online dating that that white women are hotter to them And a white guy can’t say that.

That’s, that’s weird. This is the observed preferences here. Right? And by the way, people are wondering why I think this might be the case with black people. It’s because we are grouping groups that have no genetic relation together as quote unquote black. Mm-hmm. And through that, what I mean is the genetic diversity within the population we call black is way bigger.

Like mm-hmm. I always say if you’re dividing humanity into like six ethnic groups native Americans, Europeans, east Asians, south Asians would all be one group. Mm-hmm. And the other five would all be in Africa. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. The, the, the, there, the, the, and, and it’s just huge. Watch our video of like our, is humanity, one species.

If you wanna see just how huge the diversity is within African groups. Mm-hmm. In fact, a lot of the African groups that you are gonna meet throughout your life were [00:34:00] West African groups are more related to Europeans than they are. To most other African groups. Yeah. So

Simone Collins: this idea that we would group all, all, all African, no.

Malcolm Collins: And so if you are looking at faces, right? And every group has an in-group preference. Mm-hmm. Right? The blacks don’t have that in-group preference, waiting on the stage.

Simone Collins: You make a really good point. It’s like, yeah. What do you mean I prefer my own? This person doesn’t look at it at all. Like me doesn’t feel at all like me.

Yeah. I I That’s a really good point. Yeah. You’re, you’re asking, you’re acting as though they’re not preferring their own when their own, in this case really isn’t necessarily that similar to them. Yeah, that’s a, oh, I’ve never seen that point made before. Ever. And

Malcolm Collins: this is one of the reasons why it’s bad to like pedal this idea of a pan black identity.

Simone Collins: Yeah, totally. ‘

Malcolm Collins: cause there isn’t a pan black identity. Mm-hmm. And, and, and, and pedaling it [00:35:00] causes I think I think the only reason it was pedaled was so that the progressives could attempt to hijack the black movement and turn it against itself. Mm. And say, look, you, you have, and, and they, they even erased the pan black identity and made it bipoc.

Now it’s everyone, it, it’s, it’s blacks and southern Europeans Right. Are somehow in the same boat now when they’re like, objectively not. In terms of discrimination, in terms of dating, in terms of as we’re gonna see here. Right. Like, and this is the thing like blacks actually have it pretty effing hard, but not for the reasons people say.

Right. Like, would it not suck if your own ethnic group preferred to date other ethnic groups to you? Mm-hmm. Like that would suck. Like I wouldn’t feel good about that. Right? Yeah. So now we’re gonna look at a paper that’s just gonna back up some of what we’ve already found here. Okay. Racial preferences and dating.

Mm-hmm. And this paper showed that women of all races exhibited strong same race preferences. Now note here we’ve seen this isn’t the case in other papers, but I’m assuming that a lot of papers were afraid to say except for [00:36:00] black women they were significantly more likely to say yes to partners of their own race and less likely to non co-ethnic.

Whereas men showed no race of, of no race showed statistically higher significant same race preferences. Overall, men’s decisions were much less influenced by race compared to women’s. And we saw this in the other studies as well. Women are the porn racists. Okay. But think of it. Think, think about it.

Think about it, think about it. Go into a woman’s book. We, I actually do this all the time with Simone ‘cause we go walking in Walmart and in BJ’s. Mm-hmm. And we like looking at the, the book section. Mm-hmm. And I love looking at the women’s sort of, obviously women porn, the erotic book section.

Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: For women, I have, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a non-white male lead in one of those books where he’s not like a mino tar or something. Ha. Have you ever seen a non-white male lead in one of the leading female erotic fictions?

Simone Collins: I want to say I think so, but I, I, I don’t think [00:37:00] that’s correct.

Like, I wanna, I can, I can picture one right now of that classic design that you, you exactly know what I’m talking about. That like, stupid illustration design that looks like, as you say, an upworker did it. But yeah, no, I. Right. I she Fat ones, oh no. Only the woman’s fat. Nevermind. And, and

Malcolm Collins: especially if we’re going at like the all time greats.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know, have you ever, ever if we’re we’re talking about the gr twilight,

Simone Collins: well, it wasn’t Fabio Southern European

Malcolm Collins: in Twilight. What, which one is his?

Simone Collins: Well, Fabio was the, the famous male model who was used on Bodice River Romance covers in like the eighties, nineties. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I, I,

Simone Collins: you get a very, like, He-Man, look, it’s very not in now.

That was, well, everyone’s into more like th thinner, slimmer male.

Malcolm Collins: So, so, if you look at Twilight,

Simone Collins: okay.

Malcolm Collins: There is I think one Native American heart throb in it, right? Yeah. So we’re getting, we’re getting one nonwhite here, which we haven’t really gone into.

Simone Collins: That’s true.

Malcolm Collins: That’s true. [00:38:00] We look at 50 shades of gray, white, white.

We look at, I’m thinking of the other ones, like a thorn of heart and roses or whatever. I think it’s all white. We look at game of Thrones, all of the, the supposedly attractive characters are white. Except for some of the women who are made to look like spicy ethnic or whatever. Right. We, and I think that, that people don’t realize how much they’re damaging their remix.

I mean, look at all the women who thirst after Snape and now snake black.

Then moving staircases, aint it? Fa there are health and safety hazard in it. Man’s nearly fell to his death on the way to Potson class. Them is mad. Tings, thank you for your time, professor Snake.

Malcolm Collins: And I gotta put that clip I heard that they might be reversing his casting. Oh. But I, but I think that they’re also, you know, this is another place where DEI hurts them, where they don’t understand that.

Like that’s what people thirst after. Mm-hmm. Right? Like you gotta look at what they’re actually thirsting after. And with men, I think you see a lot more ethnic variety in popular porn stars.

Simone Collins: Well, and heated rivalry. It’s a Russian and like an a, well, a [00:39:00] Canadian, but I think of some form of Asian to say those are.

Malcolm Collins: Oh,

Simone Collins: so yeah, we got

Malcolm Collins: 1 1, 1 Asian in there.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But remember if he’s Asian white, that scores very well for white women.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I don’t know if the character’s supposed to be like 100% because his mom features and she’s Asian, but I don’t know. Okay. I I, I honestly, after we did our Home Ywe episode, I tried to watch it watch, and one it is, it’s not even trying to be a real show.

Like, it’s not even y Yuri On Ice, for example, which is another Yi anime that we talked about on that episode actually has like a fun plot. It has cute moments and everything. This didn’t have anything but just like, literally just sexual tension scenes and then like more explicit scenes. So it’s, it’s just, I, I couldn’t watch it.

It was unwatchable.

Malcolm Collins: It’s just basically,

Simone Collins: it’s not even cute. It’s not even cute. That’s the problem. I, I liked Ywe for the squee bit. Like, oh, how cute. Like, now they’re this,

Malcolm Collins: this for women who want like aggressive.

Simone Collins: Like, yeah, no, it’s just like, I [00:40:00] wanna watch men like thirst after each other and like look each other up and down and shower next to each other and like, you thirst for each other, like just yearn for each other.

It’s so funny, like in Yuri on Ice, there’s a scene in which they’re bathing together. But like one is like, oh, like, ugh. Whereas like there’s this other scene and there’s also a bathing together scene really early on in, in the gay romance hockey show, heated rivalry, but they’re just like showering next to each other and like actively thirsting for each other and just actively looking at each other’s junk.

And then just being like, not here. And it just, it just really bothers me. I’m like, this is not good like this. Anyway, he’s not white. One of them is not white. So just putting that out. Go on now. So basically white men, everyone wants white men. Whoa.

Malcolm Collins: So basically you’re saying the show is like, and I’m gonna put the

Simone Collins: I’m gay

Malcolm Collins: jump

Simone Collins: scene.

I am [00:41:00] gay.

Simone Collins: It’s not even trying. Yeah, it’s not, it’s not even trying. They’re not you, you can’t even say that you’re watching it for the plot. And that’s what I have a, a lot of trouble with. ‘cause the plot sucks. There was, well, there’s, well there was no plot anyway.

Malcolm Collins: It’s just anyway, to continue

Simone Collins: here. No, no. Like literally I have seen, I have seen erotic material, like just literally not even like, like the male kind, not women’s written stuff, but like, just stuff that you’d find on P-O-R-N-H-U-B that has a better plot than heated rivalry.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. To continue here, Simone.

Simone Collins: And that

Malcolm Collins: I can see this affected you

Simone Collins: very. Yes. I lost minutes of my life in, in, go on.

Malcolm Collins: I can see this affected you. So,

here I’m putting on screen the famous chart just to, for all of our, our guys who want to scream at statistics that shows that men rate women evenly with, you know, 6% being in the most attractive 6% being in the least attractive category.

Okay?

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: With [00:42:00] most other women rated as fairly attractive, even when you go down to like the lower category of attractiveness whereas women really only rate the top 80% of men as attractive at all. Okay. So, you see women really do have this pattern. Now we’re gonna go to a section of the Okay.

Cupid score that I hadn’t seen recently. Okay. So we can go over it first. Mm-hmm. So it’s men rating women here.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So Asian men rating various ethnic groups

and what you see here is Latino women and white women. They didn’t really, and this was actively rating them, this wasn’t email rates, which we’re gonna see in a second.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Asian men. Very strong preference for Asian women. Very strong negative preference for black women. Didn’t really care about Latina and white women. Okay.

Simone Collins: Okay. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Black men rating. They had a slight preference for both Asian women and Latino women over black women. So 2% to 1%, statistically likely [00:43:00] negligible.

But yes, they had a preference for non-black women, over black women in rating them. Now here in this one, we see them rating white women as less than black women in, in terms of attractiveness, which is,

Simone Collins: okay, there we go.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, great. Mm-hmm. Not, not by much, but by a little. True. Yeah. Now, Latino women dating again, we see the pattern here.

Very strong negative rating of, of sorry. This is Latina men rating. Yeah. Of black women. Okay. Did not like. And then a high preference for Latino women and not much care whether Asian or white, like those are lower than Latino women. But you do have an in-group preference here. Okay. White men rating, oh.

We’re getting to race traders here again. What, what race do you think white men think it’s the hottest?

Simone Collins: Asian women.

Malcolm Collins: Asian women? Yeah.

Simone Collins: They call it yellow fever for a reason. There’s no, like, there’s no other term I know of that has to do with some male fetishization of another ethnic group. So it’s an obvious.

Malcolm Collins: I the only white [00:44:00] guy who does not think Asian women are more attractive. I dunno, people in the comments. But yeah, white men, but and a strong negative preference for black women.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But what’s interesting is that there the, the difference between Latino and white was, was pretty small for white men here.

Okay? Now, what you’re sort of seeing across the board is nobody but black men wants to date black women within these statistics. Which is sad. I think. Now we’re gonna look at the, the most negatively rated here, Asian women rating. So this is, this is where they, they have a. Very strong preference.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: They really, really like Asian men. So they, they do have the highest preference for Asian men, but they also have a huge preference for white men, 18% plus for white men. They,

Simone Collins: so the yellow fever is not unrequited,

Malcolm Collins: is that it’s not an unrequited thing. They have have a huge negative association with black men, 27% negative.

But what’s also interesting is they have the highest distinction of any, any individual here of distinguishing between Latino men and [00:45:00] white men or, or Latinos and whites at all. They have a negative preference for Latinos of negative 15% and a preference for whites of plus 18%. That’s so interest, interest at Southern European versus Northern European of negative 15% to 18%.

Now consider, if we go to white women rating here, oh, they have a huge difference as well, actually. So it, it turns out that women can really tell the difference between southern Europe, northern Europeans, and have a strong preference for Northern Europeans. Hmm. White women have a 19% preference for Northern Europeans and only a 1% preference for Southern Europeans.

Was, again, huge negatives for blacks and Asian men here which is yikes. Again, they’re the, they’re the ones who say they don’t have this black women rating. This is where we get the, the, the, the faith again in humanity. Mm-hmm. Okay. They rated black men as the hottest unfortunately that’s not shown in their actual dating patterns, which we’ll see in second.

But they rate black men as a plus 23%. [00:46:00] Okay. Asian men, they really don’t like negative 13% Latino and white low. So no

Simone Collins: love loss there. Yeah. They just don’t, don’t care for each other.

Malcolm Collins: Latino women rating did not like black men. Did not like Asian men. Big negatives there and high preference for Latino men.

18% and white men, 12%. So that was really fascinating. Now

Simone Collins: this is also like not like I wonder. Is there an Armenian thing for black men? I mean, look at the Kardashians and who they’ve married. Yeah. I, I This is not all inclusive. Yeah. So who knows? You know, I, you, you gotta understand where you have tiny arbitrage opportunities.

And maybe

Malcolm Collins: I, Alan needs to do a study on this. This is, this is what we need. This is a study we need. And I, and we’re gonna have to do this subjectively here.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So, now I’m putting up a chart that shows how much

different people match with each other. Okay. And you can see based on like score matching.

Pretty much everyone matches equally with each other, okay? Mm-hmm. So this is not because of personality that we’re seeing here. Okay? Now, if we look at reply rates by race, [00:47:00] female cinder, okay? Mm-hmm. You notice some things just immediately jump out at you.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Nobody responds to black women. Aw.

Everybody responds to Middle Eastern females and Asian females. They get high response rates across the board. But the, the sad thing about black women is black males respond to every other female demographic sign higher than they respond to black women. Hmm. So black women in, in, in, in fact, black

Simone Collins: women, could this do, I mean, as you pointed out that because there is so much variation among the, like people who come from the African continent in terms of their heritage.

There’s just so much of a negative modifier put on like, oh, I think this person’s gonna really fit well with me. Oh, actually, we’re so, so different and not actually a problem. I know, I completely

Malcolm Collins: agree. I think you make a strong point. Mm. But, but I’d point out here if you wanna get [00:48:00] sadder, if you are a black woman, woman, you have a better chance statistically shooting your shot with a Middle Eastern male, a Native American male, or a whatever other male is.

Simone Collins: Well, I guess maybe because they’re more known quantities. You know,

Malcolm Collins: I, I don’t know. Or it might be that these groups are unreferenced as well by women. The, the other one which is an interesting, you get a few like interesting, like big negative spots here.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That’s really interesting is Pacific Islander females, Indian men do not like them.

Simone Collins: Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Response rates from Indian men.

Simone Collins: Must have been a small sample though.

Malcolm Collins: No, this is an enormous sample.

Simone Collins: Oh really?

Malcolm Collins: The, the OkCupid data set is stupidly large. That’s what makes it so famous because it’s literally all on their platform.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: The oh, let’s look at white, white females. Any, any interesting thing here.

Oh, this is interesting. There’s also one race that almost never emails back or emails back at lower [00:49:00] rates than pretty much every other ethnic group. Mm-hmm. And they are white males. If you are a, a white female, for example, every other ethnic group is significantly more likely to male you back than white males.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: White males mail back their own ethnicity less than any other group. And I think it’s just ‘cause they’re so in demand, as we can see by the other statistics.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Now let’s look at if the male is CI sender. Mm-hmm. And, and this is where we can look at native, native Americans, because I haven’t seen them broken out on any other chart yet, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, okay. What do, what do. White women. What’s their response rate to Native American males? High.

Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Very high actually.

Simone Collins: Jacob Twilight. There you go.

Malcolm Collins: It is, it is the highest response rate that white women give to any ethnic match other than white

Simone Collins: males. Well, that would, that would explain why in twilight there was this creation of a fetishized fe fetish, fetishized [00:50:00] fetishized native American werewolf man.

Malcolm Collins: And here you see one of the saddest bars in history, which is remember how there was that big black bar, red bar on like what black women who basically no one ever replies to, they reply at higher rates than just about any ethnicity, to any ethnicity. They are desperate. And you can see why in the data it is a sad state to be a black woman in online dating.

Simone Collins: Yeah. No, it’s, it’s, yeah. If you’re not, if you’re not watching and you’re listening instead. This is a chart that has a lot of green and then orange and red and red, bad, red, bad. And there’s just one big, basically red band across the graph. And it’s, it’s black females. That’s really sad.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But, but also here you see people respond, women respond to black males at significantly lower rates as well.

Mm-hmm. It’s not as distinct as black females, but it’s, it’s significantly lower. And this is unfair. You know, you, you have a lot of incel talk about this in the incel community. It’s height and ethnicity. [00:51:00] That’s what girls are looking for. They’re looking for tall and northern European. Mm-hmm. And that is, and everybody leaves out this ethnicity.

Simone Collins: I think it’s important to note though, that, think about this in, in another way. Think about South Korea, the place of the four Bs movement where women are swearing off even just dating men or having sex with men. I wonder if one of the reasons why women around the world seem to prefer Northern European men is that they are among the most gender egalitarian, culturally speaking, so they expect better treatment or more preferential treatment from those men.

Could that be like, is it not just based on appearance here? It could just be both.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I know that there is a fantasy among a lot of Korean women when they’re interviewed that they are going to ex expat from the country and marry a white guy. It’s usually like, I’m gonna go to New Zealand, or I’m gonna go to the US and I’m gonna get married.

And because they don’t want to, but that’s, that’s part of the cultural fantasy. They believe and I believe [00:52:00] accurately mm-hmm. That, that white males have a more gender, especially Northern European white males, which is probably why they prefer the Northern European to the Latinos so much. Mm-hmm.

Have a much more gender egalitarian assumption about how relationships will be structured.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which is accurate. They do even, even like a big red pillar is likely gonna be slightly more gender egalitarian than your average guy dating in South Korea.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And we pointed out you need gender egalitarianism to breed, like the, the people who, oh, it’s all feminism salt.

It’s all feminism salt. It’s just like. Objectively not true. The countries that are more gender egalitarian have higher fer, the wealthy ones at least. Mm-hmm. Like the United States and Australia mm-hmm. Are, have higher fertility rates than the ones that aren’t.

Simone Collins: But, and you also, I mean, I, I feel like this is even playing out in the preference for Northern European men over Southern European.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, absolutely. And you even see this in the data.

When the feminist movement started in the United States, fertility collapse actually abated significantly for most of the steep fertility decline happened. Pre 1930 and then like [00:53:00] in the 1930s to 1940s, it basically hit a wall and, and, and, and started to slow down significantly.

Mm-hmm. So I, I know it doesn’t fit the narrative that we want to be out there, but it’s what’s true and we gotta work with what’s true rather than what we want to be true. Right? Yeah. And I think that admitting that gender egalitarianism has a place in resolving fertility collapse is important if we’re being honest with ourselves.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And then it’s a, it’s a factor in the dating data

Malcolm Collins: based

Simone Collins: five minute warning, by the way. Oh, we have to get the kids in five minutes.

Malcolm Collins: Okay, Simone. So, we can finish off the, the ethnic ranking in a bit that we’ll just do together some other day. But what I wanted to point out here

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Because I think that this is also very, very interesting. Mm-hmm.

If you are a white male emailing a black woman. There is a 38% chance that she’s going to respond to you. Mm-hmm. So that means you have a higher response rate. If you wanna talk about how bad it is to be a male in our society these days, dating,

Simone Collins: yeah.[00:54:00]

Malcolm Collins: White men emailing black women have a higher response rate from black women than black women do. When they email almost any other ethnicity, including black men. Mm-hmm. It is worse to be a black woman on the dating market

Simone Collins: than it is to

Malcolm Collins: be a man, than it’s to be a white man on the dating market. I didn’t, I just wanted hit that home for you guys.

If you’re looking across all, uh, ethnicities, the average reply rate for black women is still higher than for white men. But if you’re looking specifically at the reply rate for black women to white men, this is true.

Malcolm Collins: If you’re here thinking, oh, this is so cool, whites are the hot. It begins to get to a point like, whoa man, maybe they are actually discriminated against. Like, like this is, this is a, this sucks.

Simone Collins: I I’m so glad I did not have to date as a man. I have to [00:55:00] say I really appreciate it. ‘cause I was just shooting fish in a barrel because I actually spammed male accounts.

So I was able to get, I, I don’t know how you kept your pipeline. You as a

Malcolm Collins: white woman get around a 50% reply rate from pretty much anyone you emailed.

Simone Collins: I feel like I didn’t get that. There’s something wrong with me. I feel like maybe the best I got was 33%. Oh,

Malcolm Collins: so you’re, you’re, you did co you did, I didn’t I didn’t actively reach out to you.

‘cause you co you covered up your, you, you did the angles. You did the angles. You looked like a fat woman.

Simone Collins: Thanks. You can’t, I guess there is such a thing as a fat storm trooper, you can kind of tell, I was gonna argue that you can’t really be fat and wear a storm Trooper armor, but then again, you couldn’t see my face.

So maybe they thought, but there were other pictures that included my face. I looked older then though, than I do now, you know, which is weird. You know, I don’t,

Malcolm Collins: I don’t wanna make this episode any longer than this, so we’ll actually do a separate episode where we [00:56:00] personally rate ethnic groups.

Simone Collins: Maybe we’ll do that on the weekend,

Malcolm Collins: I think.

Simone Collins: Yeah. For paid subscribers only.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: because I don’t need that many people that have clips of us talking about that. Maybe not Malcolm, because I don’t know. I’ve, I’ve already said my top tier, which is Northern European plus Japanese mostly Irish, Japanese. That’s, that’s S tier, everything else.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

I’ve

Simone Collins: already, I’ve

Malcolm Collins: already said my spicy thing that despite all of the sleeping around I did, it was basically only with Northern Europeans.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And,

Malcolm Collins: and occasional Italians and

Simone Collins: French. Well, but the thing is though, you knew, you found your arbitrage play as a man, and it was mostly to be a sort of like aggressive hot nerd

Malcolm Collins: and Oh,

Simone Collins: and that

Malcolm Collins: plays to that crowd.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You, that 100% plays to this like nerdy European girl type, the bookish dark [00:57:00] academia co well now cottage core nerdy Harry Potter thing. And that was the type I went

Malcolm Collins: after.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And like you just don’t find that many other, other types of girls, like from different cultural backgrounds. You have backgrounds.

Oh, that’s a good point. Like,

Malcolm Collins: like there’s not that many Asian vampire girls.

Simone Collins: No, I’ve never met. Really like an Asian vampire girl who’s like into that. Yeah. I’m sure they’re there. I’m sure they’re out there. There’s, there’s gotta be plenty of, I like, yeah, there’s gotta be out there. My Asian friends as a kid weren’t like sims for vampires, but I had plenty of white friends.

Girl, girl. I hate saying girlfriends, but like friends who are girls who are Simms for vampires. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I know I is weird. I

Malcolm Collins: don’t dunno, any of my interethnic friends that were like, are

Simone Collins: white. Yes, but, and also like, can you imagine, can you imagine an, I mean, then there were Asian goths too, but I just can’t imagine like a, an Indian girl dating junior new rock boots.

You know what I mean? Like, it just doesn’t Yeah, no, they wouldn’t compute the [00:58:00] same way. And like maybe if you lived in a city where like they, oh, and I, I dated

Malcolm Collins: lots of, of, of Jewish people as well. That was the other Jewish Ramani people were the two other groups that

I

Simone Collins: dating. I think you have to just be aware of the fact that also like.

But I’ve had a lot of are gonna like you

Malcolm Collins: into vampire girls. So IIII think it’s no, but here’s the, here’s the thing, right? Like I think it’s the, the, the reason might be that to create, if you live within Jewish culture or white culture mm-hmm. A fantasy, like if you, if you want to satisfy a fetish around having an incredibly dominant partner, right?

Mm-hmm. That for white women and, and Jewish

Simone Collins: women. Oh yeah. You’re not allowed to want that.

Malcolm Collins: That only happens. It needs to be a

Simone Collins: monster. It needs to be

Malcolm Collins: supernatural. If you’re an Asian woman or you are a South Asian woman, that happens at home, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s just called being a man

Malcolm Collins: that’s just called being a man.

So that might be why used to do that fantasy more in that population.

Simone Collins: That’s funny. Yeah, I could see that.

Malcolm Collins: Alright,

Simone Collins: well this has been [00:59:00] enlightening. Well, not, not actually like we knew this data before. I just, it’s been a while, so. I’ve re-upped my horror and I guess dis collective disappointment in everyone, but also not, it makes sense.

You should, in the end, it’s best to marry someone where you have, have shared social contracts where you feel compatible and yeah, whatever. Like, do what works well for you. But I’m not gonna blame people for wanting to, to pair up with people who are like them because it’s lower stress. It’s just lower stress.

Even if there are significant advantages, which I’ve noted of, of pairing with people and having kids with people of different, like significantly different Yeah. Racial slash ethnic backgrounds. So again. Marry someone of a different racial or ethnic background, or marry your third or fourth cousin.

Malcolm Collins: And keep in mind the rankings of interracial children’s attractiveness because for example, the white Asian mix beats [01:00:00] it for white people. I can’t remember if it’s white men or women that have a preference for them over their own ethnicity,

Simone Collins: but they’d be pretty. Yeah, they’d be pretty.

Malcolm Collins: I can see why.

Anyway love you Simone. Love you

Simone Collins: too.

Malcolm Collins: You gotta make more of those white imperialist babies.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Oh yeah. For the empire. Yeah, for the empire. Yeah. Forgot that comment about you online.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Somebody said my, my sperm was being used imperialistically to create what this was before I became a prenatal list.

Yeah. They’re like, you’re increasing the world with your white sperm.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Something like that. Like girl word choice. First word, choice Second.

Malcolm Collins: I should have said next time I’ll breed a black woman.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like, was that what you want?

Malcolm Collins: Is that what you want? Like,

Simone Collins: gee whiz. All right. Bye. Bye.

Malcolm Collins: Oh,

Simone Collins: we need to get more sleep. Let’s, let us commit to this.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve just been so [01:01:00] tired. I even took a nap today. But I guess I woke up super early because I wanted to make sure that I didn’t have that problem in my head yesterday.

And Oh,

Simone Collins: where you got sufficient sleep, Uhhuh that,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, that was a big mistake.

Simone Collins: Huge mistake.

Malcolm Collins: Didn’t get as much done.

Simone Collins: I so hear you though.

Speaker 4: What are you doing and how did you get here? It’s like climbing up the poison stairs. But how did you do it without getting poisoned? ‘cause it was my some slip. That’s amazing. Yeah. And the color. Wow. And you’re in Dirty Daddy’s room. Is daddy’s room dirty? No, it’s not. I like your standards, girl. You’re gonna make a guy really happy.

One day. Yeah. Now all go back down. Okay, sweetheart. [01:02:00] Okay.

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