Kava vs Kratom: Dependency Differences

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Justin Wolf, co-founder and CEO of New Brew, about plant-based alternatives to alcohol and how social drinking culture may be shifting.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-343/?ref=278

Justin shares how exploring kava and kratom traditions in Mexico shaped New Brew's approach to formulation, emphasizing reliable dosing, transparency, and harm reduction. Together, they discuss why alcohol became the default social drug, the limits of most "functional beverages," and the nuance behind terms like "Cali sober."

The conversation also explores dependency risk, intention, moderation, and why plant-based alternatives are not positioned for those pursuing full abstinence. At its core, this episode is about expanding optionality and building new social rituals responsibly.

Justin Wolf is the co-founder and CEO of New Brew, a plant-powered social tonic designed as an alternative to alcohol. Prior to launching New Brew, Justin spent five years leading Global Partnerships at Google and helped launch DripDrop, an electrolyte hydration brand now sold nationwide. Inspired by kava and kratom traditions he encountered in Mexico, he founded New Brew with a focus on transparency, education, and harm reduction. He is also an early investor and advisor in the psychedelic medicine

Highlights:

• Why alcohol became the default social drug
• The limits of "functional" beverages
• Discovering kava and kratom in Mexico
• Harm reduction through formulation and dosing
• Intention over abstinence or excess
• The nuance behind "Cali sober"
• Building new social rituals responsibly

Episode Link:

• New Brew (use code: THIRDWAVE)

Episode Sponsors:

• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

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