Intro

Kim Scott introduces the episode, guests Lisa Conn and Anne Wootton, and the ICE Out Tech conversation setup.

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Episode notes

When tech is at its best, it is a group of people working together to solve hard problems in a way that makes the world a better place. That goal is what motivated so many folks in Silicon Valley to come here. How then did we cede the microphone to a small number of people who espouse an authoritarian, rich get richer algorithm? How can people working inside tech companies grab the bullhorn away from the authoritarians to describe the world we want to create? How we can take action to advocate for our vision of a better future?

One recent manifestation of this is the ⁠ICEout.tech⁠ movement. In this episode, Kim speaks with Lisa Conn, founder of Gatheround and former Meta employee, and Anne Wootton, co-founder of Pop Up Archive and current senior engineering manager at Apple, about why they signed the pledge and what they hope it can accomplish.

Kim, Lisa and Anne also discuss more generally ideas for people who are frustrated with the state of affairs at their companies or in tech more broadly, but are not sure where to start and how to find a community of similarly civic-minded people to take action. They discuss ways to host meetups for your like-minded co-workers while still working hard at your day job and staying within your company’s policies.

They also talk about how important it is to speak respectfully with people who disagree with you. A good goal is to deepen your own thinking, not to change a person's mind. You probably won’t change their mind, and you probably won’t change yours. That doesn’t mean you’re wasting your breath. When you invite discussion about your beliefs with people who disagree, two good things can happen. One, you get to know them a bit better. Two, you challenge yourself to think more deeply. JS Mill said that belief without discussion can give way to prejudice.

Background on ICEout.tech:

⁠⁠ICEout.tech⁠⁠, started by and for people in tech, wants the tech industry to use its influential position in our economy to stop ICE. The pledge, which was started after Renee Good was murdered in Minneapolis, has more than 2,000 verified signatures from people across major companies including NVIDIA, Anthropic, OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, and dozens more. The call to speak up against ICE in tech gained momentum after Border Patrol agents killed Alex Pretti, an ICU nurse, and has drawn public support from leaders like Dario and Daniela Amodei (Anthropic), Reid Hoffman, and Vinod Khosla. Tech professionals want their CEOs to join them in this effort, to protect our neighbors and communities and stop ICE's terror.

Resources:

⁠⁠ICEout.tech⁠⁠ information and how to get involved.
Resist and Unsubscribe Resist and Unsubscribe - movement by Prof. Scott Galloway to encourage individuals to use their economic power by unsubscribing from big tech web services as a way to press these leaders to push for government reforms.

CHAPTERS:

(00:00) Introduction to iceOut.tech Movement

(02:00) Understanding the Pledge and Its Impact

(04:59) Navigating Ethical Dilemmas in Tech

(10:02) The Role of Affluence and Courage

(15:20) Building Solidarity and Taking Action

(20:04) Employee Power and Organizing for Change

(22:53) The Role of Technology in Society

(26:10) Tactics for Influencing Corporate Decisions

(29:51) Building Internal Solidarity and Communication

(34:04) Navigating Polarization and Finding Common Ground

(39:03) Self-Care and Community Engagement