Remove the product to future-proof thinking

Jim Kalbach is the Chief Evangelist at Mural, where he helps teams uncover what customers actually need—not just what they say they want. Known for his work in Jobs to Be Done, experience mapping, and innovation, Jim has spent years helping organizations see beyond their products and into how buyers really think, decide, and act.

In this episode, we unpack a simple but often overlooked truth: buyers don't start with problems—they start with solutions. Jim walks us through what's really happening beneath the surface—from how buyers recognize (or miss) their own problems, to how they search, evaluate, and eventually decide when to stop looking.

Along the way, you'll learn how identifying unmet needs doesn't just improve your product—it sharpens your messaging, builds trust faster, and gives you a clearer path to pricing around real value.

Why you have to check out today's podcast:

• Understand why buyers struggle to explain their own problems and how removing the solution from the conversation reveals what they actually need.
• Learn how Jobs to Be Done helps you predict buyer behavior by uncovering the unmet needs driving their decisions.
• Understand the moment buyers stop searching and how aligning with their real problem builds trust and increases conversion.

"Understand the problems first—and then price around that."

– Jim Kalbach

Topics Covered:

02:08 – Why Buyers Struggle to Express Their Problems. Learn why buyers default to solutions instead of articulating real needs—and how that limits insight.

05:57 – The Jobs to Be Done Mindset Explained. Discover how removing the solution from the conversation helps uncover true customer problems.

10:06 – The Layers of Problems in Sales. Understand how to navigate from surface-level needs to deeper value-driving problems.

12:43 – Why Buyers Are Predicting the Future. Explore how every purchase is a bet on future outcomes—and what builds buyer confidence.

14:37 – Identifying Unmet Needs in the Market. Learn how uncovering unmet needs improves product-market fit, messaging, and adoption.

18:45 – Building Trust by Understanding Problems First. See how recognizing a buyer's problem before they articulate it creates instant credibility.

21:22 – Shifting from Product Thinking to Human Problems. Why focusing on the human problem—not the product—makes selling and pricing easier.

25:47 – Core Principles of the Jobs to Be Done Framework. Break down the key idea: temporarily remove the solution to better understand the job.

27:29 – Pricing Around Value Creation. Why pricing should be anchored in the problems you solve—not the product you sell.

Key Takeaways:

"Try to understand the value that you can create by shifting your attention to the problems that you solve." – Jim Kalbach

"The power of jobs to be done is let's not see things only through the lens of our own solution." – Jim Kalbach

"Jobs to be done is trying to predict the future by creating a solution that fills an unmet need." – Jim Kalbach

Resources and People Mentioned:

• Jobs to Be Done (JTBD) – Framework for understanding customer behavior by focusing.
• Henry Ford – Referenced for the "faster horse" analogy, illustrating how customers describe needs based on existing solutions.
• Theodore Levitt – Known for the classic insight: people don't want a drill, they want a hole—used here to illustrate layers of customer problems.

Connect with Jim Kalbach:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kalbach
• Website: www.jtbdtoolkit.com
• Jobs to be Done Playbook: https://experiencinginformation.com/jtbd-playbook/

Connect with Mark Stiving:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/
• Email: mark@impactpricing.com