Economic divergence: US growth vs Europe's stagnation

Europe’s decline isn’t primarily from immigration—it’s from self-inflicted genetic and cultural degradation via the World Wars and long-term dysgenic trends. In this eye-opening Based Camp episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive into new research on how WWI military deaths in Britain crushed long-term innovation (especially breakthrough patents), with effects persisting for decades. They extrapolate to France, Germany, and Russia (far worse casualty rates) and argue Europe’s population has already lost much of its vital, risk-taking stock—long before recent migration waves.

Topics include:

* Why Europe’s “white” populations created weak, anti-innovation cultures and laws themselves

* Genetic/cultural long-tail effects: small average shifts devastate extreme outliers (inventors, risk-takers)

* Immigrant selection filters: why U.S. Latin American immigrants differ from Europe’s current inflows

* Frontier mindset (Scots-Irish, Silicon Valley types) vs. stagnant European vitalism

* Geopolitical realism: viewing decaying Europe as opportunity territory in a techno-feudal future

* Why weakness repels strong allies—and why America increasingly sees Europe as irrelevant

If you’re into pronatalism, human biodiversity, innovation economics, or unfiltered takes on Western decline, this episode challenges mainstream narratives hard.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be with you today.

Today we are going to be talking about. New data that has come out, which shows how Europe has genetically degraded and changed due to the two world wars. Mm-hmm. And it’ll, I think, highlight for people when they say to me, Malcolm, as an American, you know, you must feel some ethnic kinship with, and, and cultural kinship with the European peoples.

If you look at like, well, immigration may not be as big an issue in the United States as it is in Europe because mm-hmm. We mostly import Latin Americans and Latin Americans are really just southern Europeans. They’re like 20% Native American when, when they are Native American. So it’s, it’s always been very weird to me that we consider them like so different of people.

We’ll get to that in a second, but was Europe, they’re importing lots of, you [00:01:00] know, people from the Middle East who are culturally and, and ethnically, very different than them that have differentially higher fertility rates in them. And that you, you’re already be to see parts of their society.

Buckle to this, you know, norms and stuff like this. There’s places you can go to in London that are nothing like what they are culturally speaking. You know, 20, 30 years ago. And they say, oh, you must be so sad about this. And I’m like, I’m really quite indifferent. Like it’s, it’s not the best.

But, but Europe has already in part, been destroyed by not immigrants, but white Europeans and what the, the, what became of the white European culture. Mm-hmm. And their genetic stock has already been significantly degraded to the point where I just don’t know if there’s much of utility there. Like it wasn’t the immigrants that took away Germany’s nuclear factories.

It wasn’t the immigrants that are making the laws in the uk, which caused people to get arrested for insulting anyone, anything [00:02:00] like the, the guy in Scotland arrested for writing Islam can be questioned on a wall.

Simone Collins: No, it can’t.

Malcolm Collins: No, it cannot. Well, but no, it wasn’t the Muslims who made those laws, who enforce those laws.

That was. The Scottish, right? Yeah. And you

Simone Collins: know, really it’s the ultimate condemnation. Like they deserve this because they made it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. They, they made their cultures weak, but, but why, why did they behave at a genetic level so differently from people who appear to be closely related to them in the United States?

And that’s what we’re going to be talking about in this episode because we have more data on that now. So this is a post about a study. So it’s a, a tweet by economist Luca Reto announcing a new paper titled Human Capital and Shocks and Innovation Evidence from Britain’s Lost Generation. And I’ll, I’ll go straight into what he says about it right here because it’s, it’s just a [00:03:00] fascinating study.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: So what are the effects of large human capital shocks on innovation? In a new paper, we study how World War II military deaths

across British communities affected local invention Over the next decades, we find that places that lost more young men, became persistently less innovative. World War II caused a massive loss of young men in Britain, over 750,000 military deaths, heavily concentrated among young, young cohorts.

Because the war was fought abroad, Britain experienced large human capital losses without domestic physical destruction. So basically it creates an instance where we can see what happens if you just remove a portion of the type of men who go to war without affecting the actual capital infrastructure of a location.

Hmm. This provides a great setting [00:04:00] to study a central question in economics. What happens to innovation when communities lose a large share of their young and skilled population? Do label shortages spur innovation or does the loss of human capital reduce it? To study this, we built a new data set linking World War I, military records and death records, the universe of British patents \ 1895 to 1979.

Mm-hmm. In winter identities and locations. And this allows us to track innovation across 10,000 communities over eight decades.

Simone Collins: Ooh. See, that’s a lot of data that’s Come on guys. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. When compared to places with higher versus lower World War I mortality within the same country the main results, communities that lost more soldiers became less likely to produce patents in the decades after the war.

Hmm. Quantitatively, a 10% increase in World War I deaths reduces the probability that a parish produces any patent by about [00:05:00] 0.09 to 0.12 percentage points, Hmm. This effect appears during the war, but persists for decades. Up until modern times the effects are even stronger. For high impact innovations, exposure to World War I Mortality reduces the probability of producing breakthrough patents roughly three times more than the probability of producing any patent.

So, I’m gonna read that again. Okay. Exposure to World War I mortality reduces the probability of producing breakthrough patents more than three times the probability of producing than it hits producing any patent. So basically, not only do you see a reduction in innovation, but you specifically see an outsized reduction in extreme levels of innovation.

Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Presumably because the most valiant, brave risk takers are also. More likely to go out and get themselves killed in war?

Malcolm Collins: Oh no. This is actually a long tail situation. That’s where all of this is coming from. [00:06:00] But what it means is that when you affect a central statistic, you affect the long tails the most.

Oh, sure.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: That makes sense. Yeah. Effects on a population reduce, like if, if you’re talking about a, a small reduction, like let’s say you move the average person to be like,

Simone Collins: you’re more likely to have exceptional outliers in a sample size of 1000 than of 10.

Malcolm Collins: No, that’s, no,

Simone Collins: no. Okay. Sorry.

Malcolm Collins: No.

Yeah, I mean obviously that’s, that’s not what I’m talking about.

Simone Collins: And what, explain what you’re talking

Malcolm Collins: about. Reduce through, like, let’s say DYS gen selection a population’s average IQ by 10%. You reduce the people who would have, even with the population staying the same appeared in the top 0.5% of intelligence in the population before by something like 98 or 95%.

Even though you’re only dealing with a 10% reduction in the middle, right? And this is a a mathematical thing. [00:07:00] And it’s just useful when you’re talking about Dysgenics because a lot of people do not know how big and how loud Dysgenics hits. Mm-hmm. And while he’s studying this in the context of the war, we’ve gotta talk about Europe has had a dramatically larger dys genetic impact than the, the Americas have for a very, very long time.

Not just tied to the wars, but we’ll get to that. And any effects you’re seeing in Britain, which had the lowest casualty rate of young men in the war are going to be amplified in places like France and Germany and Russia.

Simone Collins: Oh. Yeah. Right. See, if you were to extrapolate out, it’s just gonna be so much worse.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And now I’m continuing to go with his takes here. Um mm-hmm. I think the effect is largely genetic, which we’ll get to in a second, but he goes, well, genetic and cultural, which are really closely tied to each other. Right. If you wipe out the. People who are the most honorable, the most aggressive, the [00:08:00] most high risk taking of a population.

Those traits are going to also exist within the cultures that they would’ve raised their children in and would’ve had children in. Right? The type of person who is either genetically or culturally, but those things, again, likely cluster because suppose I am a woman raised in a family that doesn’t particularly care about trying to skip out of fighting an war, right?

Mm-hmm. And that only cares about itself. When I raise daughters and they see those same traits in a potential partner, they’re more likely to disregard them, right? Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: A a man who is honorable is less likely to marry into that, right?

Simone Collins: Exactly. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So you get a, a clustering of genes and cultures when you’re talking about this stuff.

But to continue here. Why does innovation fall? We find two main channels existing innovators become less productive, and two communities produce fewer successful new innovators. Both effects contribute to [00:09:00] the long run decline in innovation. The productivity decline among innovators is strongest in knowledge intensive sectors such as electricity, chemistry, physics, machinery and these sectors relied heavily on specialized skills in complimentary workers.

Mm-hmm. So here is a chart that they put together where you can see where you had the, the biggest negative effects and the biggest negative effects are on things like. Mechanics and electricity. And the lightest negative effects are on things like construction and human necessities, like, you know, food and stuff like that, right?

So, the things that require intellectual horsepower is what’s really hit. Yeah. Because textiles does not some innovators adapt innovators who relocate to other communities or work with co-authors experience smaller productivity losses, suggesting that networks and innovative local ecosystems help buffer capital shocks.

Overall, [00:10:00] the evidence highlights the importance of local human capital and knowledge networks for innovation Now. I wanted to now go over, because I had mentioned this and it’s just worth going into more here. What, what was the relative death rate in the war? So, in the uk, we’re, they’re seeing this effect 6.7% of males age 15 to 49 were killed.

This equates to 12.3, 12.5% of the men who actually served. Mm-hmm. And it’s a

Simone Collins: lot.

Malcolm Collins: This is in world War I. Yeah. If, if you look at World War I for France, compared this to the 6.7% in the uk it was 15 to 17%, like well over triple the rate of what was killed in the uk.

Simone Collins: I’m wondering what, what percentage of men of military service age are being killed in Russia right now?

Malcolm Collins: Go to Germany. It’s 15%. Oh. If you then go to world War ii in the [00:11:00] uk it was only two to 4%. In in, in Germany it was 10 to 13%. Although for some cohorts it was as much as 30 to 38%. Some estimate in Russia, it could have been as high as 40 to 50% in some cohorts.

Simone Collins: During World War I still war I

Malcolm Collins: in World War ii,

Simone Collins: in World War ii.

Oh God, Russia. Russia, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So let’s get to the wider, so what effect of all of this,

Simone Collins: Okay, so I, I mean, I know that demographically Russia has already screwed, but compare that to now and well, under 1% of all Russian men have been killed in the current Russia, Ukraine war, and then one to 2% of Ukrainian men.

Though, I mean, you know, we, we don’t know the data that much. It’s, it’s still a ton, but. It, it we’re not at like World War I or World War II levels.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Not even close. Yeah, not even close. Yeah. It’s not even like fractionally there. Yeah. The, the genetic effects on [00:12:00] Ukraine, which are going to be huge, are actually going to come more from the women who fled the country.

Which is interesting. Fleeing a country during a wartime, I think is generally a sign of positive genetic traits. Very different than being somebody who stays and just skirts your service. Mm-hmm. Because it shows that you have the initiative to go and try to find a better life for your family.

And lacking that initiative is really big. If you look at something like the Irish Potato Famine or something like that, and people talk about how horrible it was, they talk about the horrors of the coffin ships and stuff like that, and they were, they were horrible. But what is often not talked about is that pretty much.

Most Irish peasants had the choice to leave Ireland if they wanted to. It was not about a, I don’t have the money to not leave my house and starve. You know, now that there’s, you know, roving gangs of, of, you know, you know, mad people, which, what [00:13:00] happened during that period, you know, there’s, there’s stories of like, people walking into houses and thinking they were full of, of, of dead people, and then like seeing one of the skeletons move and realize it’s just severely impoverished, like the, the level of the horror of this, but.

Many of those people allowed that to happen to themselves rather than take initiative. Right.

Simone Collins: They were given like free passage to

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So for people who don’t understand why so many of the surfs were given free passage as soon as the landowners realized, because this is the way, you know, surfs and landowners work oh my God, I’m not gonna remotely gonna be able to pay my surf this year.

And there had already in food because that is one of the things you paid them in back then. And there had already been instances of peasants rising up and killing the landowners when they couldn’t pay them due at the be beginning of the famine. Most of the Lords. Well, we gotta get them outta here asap.

You know, as many, as many of the surfs as I can.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like it’s not like they were being benevolent, they were trying to survive as well, but also that’s [00:14:00] makes it all the more believable, you know?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, yeah. It wasn’t that they were being nice or anything like that, but they, they wanted to get the surfs off the land before everybody started starving.

Mm-hmm. And many of them had a, a benevolent angle as well, you know, keep that in mind.

Simone Collins: Of course. No, I mean, also no one wants, like a bunch of people suffering and dying and starving that are under your care. That’s horrific.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: I mean, I, I would’ve moved mountains to try to, if, if that was happening with people living on land that I was responsible for, you know, and I’m sure you know, these are for the most part good Christian men with noble, no oblig.

You know, at least most of them hopefully. So.

Malcolm Collins: But the people didn’t want to leave is the point?

Simone Collins: Well, no, a lot of them did leave. A lot of them did leave.

Malcolm Collins: A lot of them did leave.

Simone Collins: They’re all over the United States.

Malcolm Collins: I’m not actually as big as you’d think. And this is

most Americans, and I, when I say most, I mean most, I mean over 50% of Americans who think that they have Irish heritage do not have any [00:15:00] meaningful Irish heritage. They are Scot’s Irish and what that meant, got a translation error over time. Because you know. Three or four generations in, you don’t have a strong understanding of what the Scots Irish are anymore.

Mm-hmm. And so you communicate that to your kid and when they’re communicating to their kids, they’re like, oh, we’re like a type of Irish. You know, especially after the big Irish immigration wave happened and people begin to build an idea of Irish identity, and so then other people wanted that. But that’s a bit like hearing you know, you’re a mongoose eating Cobra and then somebody being like, I’m a mongoose, and that mongoose was somewhere in the name there.

Right. And we’ll have a separate video where we will go deeper into the cultural history of the Scots Irish, which is, which is actually really, so if, if you’re, you’re wondering which population you’re in were your ancestors. Protestant and were they in the United States before the Civil War?

Mm-hmm. If those two things are true, you are not Irish. Another question, [00:16:00] were your ancestors in the greater Appalachian to, let’s say Texas region or South? If they were, you were probably Scott’s Irish. If they were from Boston or Massachusetts or maybe some waves in like California then you might be Irish.

But it’s worth noting here because these two groups didn’t like each other. They’re genetically very different from each other in terms of like genetic culture, genetically and culturally from each other. And they, it’s, it’s a, a shame that so many people think this about themselves and don’t understand that the traditions and stuff that they’re doing has nothing to do with Irish history.

But anyway, back to the story here. So, well actually the Scotts Irish are an important point here. So if you go back to the Scotts Irish, when they were the avers in. A lower SCO Scots, like the Ulster Scots the population that came to the United States and became one of the dominant populations in the United States was only about 3,300 fighting age men.

Right. And this became one of the dominant cultures in the United States and the [00:17:00] backbone of the MAGA movement as a culture, right? Like it is an incred. And that movement now is one of the most culturally important movements in global geopolitics. So you can go and start with a very, very small population and have that population absolutely explode and thrive if they have some sort of advantage over other groups that are moving into a region.

You have other groups that move into the United States and largely died out like the Puritan populations. So, in fact, the part of the Puritan population that like I am descended from, only survived because it merged with the Scot’s Irish population. Mm-hmm. But most of the, the cleaner, pure puritan population died out.

So, so it matters a lot, you know, your culture, the way you act, whether that’s to the point I’m making here. If you look at an environment, like when we talk about the long tail distribution of cultural and genetic in innovativeness you’re looking at a place like Silicon Valley, right? You [00:18:00] know. What was Silicon Valley a like, what, what was the population that was there differentially?

It was people who, you know, a hundred years before that, or, or not even a hundred years before that you know, during the Gold Rush had gone out and risked life and limb to moved to a place where there was incredibly high reward possibility, but incredibly high risk. And

Simone Collins: discomfort. And discomfort

Malcolm Collins: and discomfort.

And that’s also true of the other ethnic populations within Silicon Valley. They were all selected based on this, the Chinese immigrants that came in the early Chinese waves. This was incredible risk. The Japanese immigrants who come in these early waves, this was an incredible risk for them.

You know, you are getting the cream of the crop in terms of the type of people who are likely to be innovative. And this is true throughout the United States, if you’re going all the way to, you know, the edges of the frontier. These are often people and groups that were squeezed like this [00:19:00] over and over again. This is why if you look at the United States and you’re looking at innovation, you basically see a gradient from the east to the west coast, right? Like, whi people from the more frontier environments being on a, a, a per person basis, more innovative because they came from ancestral groups.

That took more and more risks. And then some of them were just like, oh, and we have to keep moving and we have to keep moving and we have to keep moving. Yeah.

And so this is even true. So somebody from Europe today could be like, well, you know, I am thinking of moving to the United States, but does this mean that somebody like Malcolm wouldn’t want me in the United States?

Is like, no. The fact that you are thinking of moving and going through this risk means that you are likely part of the the stock culturally speaking within Europe and genetically speaking within Europe, that is dispositioned to these sorts of risks. Now you could say, well. Okay, but then does that mean that the immigrants that Europe is getting right now have a similar [00:20:00] effect on the European population?

And the answer is no, because Europe has created a scenario where you can in immigrate into the countries with not just no risk, but like negative risk. Like the government will pay for your lifestyle. It will set you up in a hotel. It will pay for you to eat, it’ll pay for your children, it’ll pay for everything.

When you set that up, you remove what creates the beneficial effect of the immigrant filter, right? Mm-hmm. And if I was in charge of the United States, I’d be trying to replace that effect. I do think life should be differentially harder for first generation immigrants in the United States. That’s how you ensure that you get good immigrants.

Then you don’t need to worry. Like if being an immigrant in the United States is not a pleasant experience like it’s something like it used to be, like you actually have to work for it, right? I would actually be open to almost. Infinite immigration. Right? You know, you could come, if you can prove that you are contributing demonstrably [00:21:00] to the country.

And if you aren’t, you know, we just let you die. Right? Like, that’s the, the mindset you needed. And that was, the mindset was in the United States for a long time. And was in other, and this is again why I say we don’t have to worry as much about Latin American immigrants as Europe does, right? Has to worry about the the Middle Eastern immigrants and the African immigrants because the Latin American immigrants are coming from Latin American countries.

And when I talk about this immigrant selection effect, you have that across Latin America as well.

Simone Collins: Well, there’s also the magnification. So each time there’s an additional immigration step. You get a magnification of the risk taking, discomfort, tolerance willingness to deal with new and novel situations and adapt, which I think is another reason why Silicon Valley historically has been such this magnet for risk taking innovators who are capable of sitting with discomfort and going for broke [00:22:00] and building amazing things.

‘cause first they, they descended from people who left various parts of Europe and sometimes on the way would like go from Russia to Germany to France. Like they, there was a process before they actually made it across the pond. And then often they would go from like New England then to Chicago than to.

Like the Midwest and then all the way to California. Like there are multiple points at which maybe is an like, and this is can be across generations. People basically re-up to their investment in willingness to be risk takers. And so I guess you, you can even kind of see this cultural difference when you, when you compare longstanding families in say new England versus those in California who’ve been there for many generations.

Like there’s sort of a behavioral difference and it’s not, I think just like the climate and the Yeah. Local businesses, they’re very shaped by the evolutionary bottlenecks that are associated with those areas.

Malcolm Collins: And so [00:23:00] when, when. Well, okay, so now to the question. ‘cause somebody’s gonna be asking and they’re gonna be like, well if Latin America was shaped by this as well, like, why is Latin America like poor and corrupt and everybody, it’s because they’re Catholic.

And Catholic cultures are much more when they are in large countries, they don’t have this effect as much when their countries are very small. But when they’re in larger bureaucracies, and we’ll do a separate deficit on this just much more likely to be less innovative, more poor, and more corrupt. If you have traveled extensively, like I’ve lived in both Latin America for a large part of my life, and I’ve lived in Italy for a large part of my life, Latin America in Italy.

Feel very, very similar to each other. Latin America and Spain feel very, very similar to each other. Latin America and Portugal feel very similar to each other. Latin America and Ireland, a lot of people don’t know this because they haven’t left like Dublin and looked at what actual Irish suburbs look like.

Feels very, very similar.

Speaker 12: I want you [00:24:00] guys to give me examples of things that Catholics and Protestants have in common

Speaker 14: oh, this is actually quite hard. Anything at all. A small thing even. Okay, so, right.

Oh, I’m actually drawing a blank here. To be honest,

Speaker 13: uh, Protestant Survire.

Speaker 12: Okay.

So that’s another difference. And I’m not sure that’s actually, I mean, is that true?

Speaker 11: I would say so.

Speaker 16: Yeah. I suppose that’s fair enough.

Malcolm Collins: so, obviously, you know, I have my thoughts on that, but we’re talking about the selection effect from this the population. The larger point of this episode is the population in Europe, even when you’re talking about Protestant populations in Europe is, is not the same as the population in the United States.

And I’ll put some graphs on screen that I think are gonna really illustrate this for people. Mm-hmm. If you, and I think you’ve seen this, this graph, Simone. This is a graph of, us versus EU area, GDP, current [00:25:00] prices in trillions of dollars. And what you can see here is after 2007, Europe’s economy basically stopped growing, whereas the US is differentially taking off.

And so people can say, well, why did it look like Europe partially recovered after the war? And the main reason it looked like is because they were being propped up by a global innovative system headed by the United States. And they were profiting off of that due to one the illusion caused by rebuilding after the war period and benefiting from a special relationship that Europe historically had with the United States.

And as that special relationship degrades it is us cutting. A chain on our legs off Europe was dragging us back culturally and economically speaking. They, they stopped innovating a long time ago. They stopped producing a long time ago. And innovation going forwards in Europe, one, due to the [00:26:00] energy costs of trying to go green with everything, putting on all these regulations doing stuff like what Germany did, taking down their nuclear stations is, is, is going to prevent massive AI development within Europe, which is the key to the future of human civilization.

So, and the Muslims didn’t do all that to them, right? And. In addition to that, their bans on AI training, on their data removes their cultural history from the evoked set of AI that are trained. Right. And, and, and so they’ve already lost out of being part of the AI psyche. Whereas you’re gonna have America be part of the AI psyche, you’re gonna have China be part of the AI psyche.

You even have Islamic countries. If you ask AI about Islamic type issues, it goes really far into like a La Akbar mode. Um hmm.

And we’ll start like ending every sentence with like a, I I know it ‘cause I’ve tried to like engage it about the Quran and it like goes crazy. Oh, that’s

Simone Collins: so weird.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, sort of convergent attractor states, you know, if our brains are operating similar to LLMs it [00:27:00] would show that you can get Islamic radical LLMs just by priming them to think like a Muslim which is fascinating.

But anyway, when. People see something like Europe rotting like this, right? And they go, how do you view it? Like how do you see Europe?

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: I see it the way predator would see it or something like that. Like when I’m looking at the future of human civilization, I am saying, okay, who are the relevant players?

Who might be a useful ally? Mm-hmm. And who might have territory or infrastructure that could be useful to the descendants of me and my useful allies. Mm-hmm. And won’t be able to defend it. The thing that Europe is creating right now is cultures that are unproductive and. Not able to defend themselves so you can move into these cultures.

This is also one of the [00:28:00] ironic things about Islamic culture, and we’ll get to this on the episode that we’ll do more on Scot’s Irish. But if you take Scot’s Irish s culture, this incredibly anti, anti, anti pretentiousness, anti elitist, anti orchestra, anti the, you know, Hollywood anti, you know, do things our way, low culture way, which in modern days looks nerdy and anime, but historically looked, you know, folk music and you know, et cetera.

You, you take this culture, right? This is how it has preserved itself against the urban monoculture. And it breeds and wins in the territories where it bred and won by adopting, like, when they would move into Native American territories. They just adopt their ways. They then, they were known differentially for doing this, where the Puritans wouldn’t now you’ll note that Scott’s Irish culture has no Native American culture left in it, but it was very aggressive at adopting it during this period. So it adopted their ways where it had utility to them. [00:29:00] But stripping out a lot of the mysticism, a lot of the woo, because it’s a very anti woo sort of a culture.

And because it didn’t believe in a cop accumulating large amounts of wealth, it stayed largely poor, which allowed it to spread, right? Mm-hmm. When you are okay with staying poor, unlike normal conquering populations like say the Vikings or something like that, that didn’t have a big genetic impact, you don’t spread as quickly because you want to accumulate wells from the local population.

If you’re okay with staying poor, then you’re not doing that. You’re just interfering and spread as fast as you can. And then what did the culture end up doing? Is it ended up after they gained power? The first president from this culture was Andrew Jackson attempting to. Wipe out the native population, the population that they were seeing as being friendliest ways, well, not friendlies say it would also kill them the most, but they adopted their ways the most.

Now if you’re looking at something like a new, like let’s say Muslim Europe that would be incredibly susceptible. Like no culture on Earth is as susceptible to a Scots Irish cultural tactic as [00:30:00] Islamic culture. Because it has techniques built into it that force it to accept non-Muslim outsiders with some rules that make it harder for those people.

And so if you can stay innovative and technologically capable while staying higher fertility than them they in, in a lot of ways where people talk about like Muslim immigration into Europe, just growing their population until they can replace the existing. Like then they grab the laws and they take hold of things.

Yes. But when they take hold of things, they merely make it less pleasant for the existing population. They don’t take complete control of the geography. And so that allows other minority populations to move into their territory and eventually outcompete them, which is a very interesting sort of fanon.

And basically what I’m saying is, yes, Europe is rotting, but that only makes it easier for my future descendants to operate with impunity within that territory. And this is also, you know, when I look geopolitically, this is, this is the way [00:31:00] I am looking at the world, right? Mm-hmm. Like I’m looking at the future geopolitics of a region like the Middle East and I say, oh, it’s actually, you know, really good for the Jewish population, which does have a really high fertility rate and high economic and technological productivity.

Right now, the core reason they can’t do whatever they want. And they’re basically realizing that. They can do whatever they want now is because the cultural force that was pushing against them is the European cultural force, which is now globally largely irrelevant, right? And you can also look within the United States or within the GOP, and you see the faction of the GOP pushing against this is the extremely low fertility Catholic integralist faction people like, you know, Nick Fuentes and stuff like that, that just aren’t genetically long-term relevant to the country or culturally long-term relevant to the country.

So if we’re looking at like where relationships look moving forwards you’re gonna see increasingly strong players just acting with impunity against weak players.

Speaker 8: I [00:32:00] think this explained what seemed fairly paradoxical to people, which is us being very supportive of Israel in both the Gaza and Iranian wars, but turning against Israel in the intermittent period when they started to be like, oh, I need money. I am discriminated against. And I was like, oh, you’re weak.

That’s pathetic. Get out. I don’t wanna be friends with you anymore. And I think that this is increasingly what we’re going to see is a world where people who try to earn sympathy by showing off their weakness, , just earned disgust.

Speaker 9: And because this strategy worked for such a long time for so many groups, I think some people are going to take a long time to adjust to this and to come up with a new strategy, and they might end up getting hurt in the meantime because of this, empathetic momentum that they’ve had to unlearn.

I.

Malcolm Collins: This idea of [00:33:00] global friendship that a portion of American culture that was dominant at the time post World War ii, like global capitalists world economy, that’s largely degrading, I think was in the American mindset. It’s in terms of anything we would want. E even even something like this war right now, as I’ve pointed out, Iran’s core strategy and people are like, oh, they’re letting some Chinese tinkerers through and it’s like barely any are functionally going through, even though they have technically let some through.

Choking off the street of ver moot differentially hurts everyone other than America. Yes, you hurt the global economy, you hurt everyone, but differentially that like few things could be better for the United States. And that’s why we’ve seen an explosion in the dollar in a big hit in the Euro since this has happened and China economically panicking since this has happened.

Because this is fundamentally a good thing for the United States. If you’re talking about, us versus other [00:34:00] people. Right now, obviously it’s a net law for everyone when you’re talking about global economic reduction. But, but it, that’s also worth us being aware of in terms of how we act in the future.

And I think people, when they look at the United States and they see America move more towards this MAGA mindset part of what they’re seeing is America moving more towards the frontiersman mindset and the Scots-Irish mindset, which I think have been the better parts of American culture historically.

And that it means that America is going to likely be more and more ruthless as it moves forwards in this sort of a context. Thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: Yeah, I think I largely agree with you and I think it’s under discussed. One, because the prenatal movement is. Is accused frequently of being obsessed with the great replacement theory.

It’s under discussed that prominent ISTs, including us, kind of don’t [00:35:00] even see Western civilization as existing in Europe largely anymore because the parts of it that we felt were contributing to human betterment, one, have, have largely disappeared from Europe, genetically speaking. But then beyond that, anything that’s left is being rendered completely inert by the EU regulatory structure and even national regulations that are preventing them.

What’s one,

Malcolm Collins: just the EU regulatory structure? It is. British regulatory structure as well.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: we have a lot

Simone Collins: of history and German and like all the, all the local ones too. It’s not just the eu but the EU does make everything kind of

Malcolm Collins: impossible. Well, I want to, I want to elevate because right now we’re, we’ll talk about Britain in this context.

You know, we have context with the best of the best in Britain. Simone got her graduate degree at Cambridge. I got my undergraduate degree at St. Andrews, which for people who don’t know it frequently in league tables ranks above Oxford and Cambridge in the league tables as the best university in the uk.

And has a huge out of [00:36:00] UK population within Europe. So I get to meet many other Europeans. And in addition to that we get to go to things like, we just got our arc invitations again this year, which is like the big conservative conference for like elite conservative influencers in Europe. So. I go to Europe and I see in the uk I see what they quote unquote conservatives think and act like.

And they are so blazingly boring and they lack vitalism, and it’s like a gray, disgusting slab. I, I mean, Simone, give me your thoughts on this.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s just kind of, it’s sad and depressing and, and our, our favorite people in the uk among them are included weirdly, although not all of them are in the UK anymore.

People who are either first or second generation immigrants to the uk.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: that’s actually

Malcolm Collins: true. Yeah. Our

Simone Collins: favorite, they’re, they’re among the few who are either themselves or from families of people who are, [00:37:00] again, risk takers and willing to like, move for opportunity.

Malcolm Collins: When you’ve gotta keep in mind, like when I, when I talk about people being like, genetically risk-taking and you trace back, like, let’s say my family history, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, okay, yes. Many parts of my family. Come from the very beginning of American history, right? Like, like the, the first settlers. But other parts of my family where, where do they come from? India. Wait, Malcolm, you don’t look Indian? What do you mean? They came from India. It’s like, because they were the first wave of colon immigrants to India.

Yeah. They set up in India, then India became a less fun place to be a colonizer, and then they moved to the United States because, you know, they, they could, it was what’s the hot, what’s the hot place to colonize today? Yeah. Right. And so I, I do think you see this sort of a, a predilection within some families culturally and genetically.

And so when she’s talking about like Europe being cut, I really cannot overstate [00:38:00] this. You just feel this actually. So, Sargon of Acad is a channel that I really like. I you know, in the early days I really liked his content in terms of ideas, in terms of beginning to build the sort of new right movement that’s evolved online.

But when I watch his content today, if you see the energy and style with which it’s delivered I think you can really see and, and, and sort of in a highlighted way see the difference between this American culture and this British culture. Mm-hmm. Which is, it’s just sort of sad about the state of the world, sort of a depressed resentment, you know, grit, your upper teeth, you know, march through this.

Aren’t things terrible, but

Simone Collins: Well, or in contrast, I, I, I just don’t see the irreverent enthusiasm. There’s not a lot of. Excitement about the future. It’s

Malcolm Collins: not a lot of inclusivity. Damning it, you know?

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Like, we’re gonna take over, let’s take over Europe, let’s take [00:39:00] over wherever. Let’s together.

Everything’s gonna be ours soon. Yeah. We’re gonna take the space. This is gonna be amazing. Look at the progressives. They have no kids. We’ve already won. What a fun day. It’s to be in a movement where we’ve already won. And you don’t, you don’t see that there. And when you go to like, their conferences, what are they doing?

They’re like, they hand mulling over like pornography bans and stuff like that. Which as I’ve pointed out, like the factions that need something like that, that protect themselves through banning things rather than just, you know, telling their kids Pornography will weed out the weak people. And if you can resist it, then good for you.

Don’t be weak, you know, use things like arousal. I’ve, I’ve mentioned this. In other episodes, but I think it’s one of the most important cultural lessons that I would take away. Like if I was another person trying to learn how to get through the eroticization of the internet and stuff like that with my kids.

Is sexuality should be viewed the way that coyotes use it to lure out domestic [00:40:00] dogs to kill and eat them, right? Like, in that analogy, be the coyote, right? Use it against those who are weaker than you. We have an episode that has never gone live called Thought Maxing Our Daughters which I should get up for one day weekend controversial when it comes back.

But the point being is you can use your sexuality to win at specific games, right? And. I, I mean, I very much was doing that when I met you, Simone. I was using you for money and labor.

Simone Collins: This is true.

Malcolm Collins: Well, you were, you know, giving me your savings. You let me live with you. You and you were paying for the apartment and you

Simone Collins: I think we split, did we split in rent?

I don’t even remember.

Malcolm Collins: Never for the one in Alameda.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. No, not, not that one. No. Yeah. Okay. Fair.

Malcolm Collins: But the point here being is, the there, this is, this is something you can functionally do. And it is a way that you can functionally approach these things. And that when you see sexuality that way, the idea that you would want to protect yourself from it comes across as just [00:41:00] such a fundamentally sort of prey perspective, right?

Mm-hmm. It’s well, if we ban all of this and we ban all of this and we can be safe and our people can be safe, instead of like, no, be stronger. And if you are weak, then you deserve the dust pin of history, right? Mm-hmm. But this is, this is a different cultural perspective than you have in a place like the uk where it’s like, let’s all ban together to try to get through this and stiff upper lip and everything like that.

And it doesn’t, it doesn’t work well against the urban monoculture. It’s very bad at resisting the urban monoculture. And the, the various cultural approaches that I’ve seen taken in Germany and in places like France. Like there is a great institute in France that’s fighting the urban monoculture.

Simone Collins: Oh, yes. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it’s funding prenatal initiatives and everything like that, like really cool. Like, it, it, wouldn’t it be cool if we had a giant amount of money to fund prenatal initiative in the United States? But it’s, it is fundamentally playing with its hands tied behind the back because it sees itself as Collectivists and Catholic above all else.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: You know, very much [00:42:00] like the old monarch of France instead of America’s, you know, sort of cowboy enthusiasm everybody out for themselves in the weak deserve what happens to the weak. Right. And and, and, and weak here can mean technologically, economically. But, but also comes to things like sexuality, as I’ve pointed out.

But this, this mindset I do not think can fight against urban monoculture because any mindset that takes the collectivist like we all need to work together approach is very easy to infiltrate for a parasite that is specifically designed to eat and destroy bur bureaucracies or large structured bureaucracies.

Hmm. Thoughts, Simone?

Simone Collins: No, that makes sense. It’s it, it’s sad, but I, I think, yeah, I, I wish, this is the first time I’ve ever seen a, I mean, as, as of this publication, seeing a podcast talking about the fact that totally independent of immigration because everyone’s like, immigration’s [00:43:00] ruining Europe and they’re totally missing with that.

You, you can totally remove all the immigration and you’re still gonna see a huge portion of the problem.

Malcolm Collins: No. Yeah. Europe. Europe lost on its own.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Like, like the, the most destructive laws and decisions to the European people are still being implemented and voted on by people who are white and of the original or dominant culture within those regions.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And and, and that makes it like very hard. Now, if they can fix it, I’m open to them becoming a strong future ally for, for

Simone Collins: minor. I think there’s still, if you’re in Europe, there is still absolutely hope because we are entering an age of techno feudalism where. You can be involved in communities and fiefdoms without necessarily being physically located there or not being physically located there all the time.

The, the [00:44:00] primary concern is in what areas are you going to start to see supply chains falling apart and, and just life becoming very uncomfortable if you don’t have a great off the grid setup. For example, we have some family with a lot of connections and families still existing in is it Romania or is it Poland right now?

But like they were talking about how gas has become so expensive that now basically everyone just has to share one car and in certain areas if they’re more rural because of the. The straight of form was being kind of not very functional right now because of the conflict I ran. Yeah. And how just this one little element of global trade breaking, making life incredibly difficult, expensive, and impossible.

You know, people living on very, very tight fixed incomes or no income at all, suddenly being like, well, okay, I guess if I need to go to the hospital now, it’s just not gonna happen. Like gas stations being shut down. So that’s the primary concern is more like, okay, once, once you sort of go off the grid or become more independent culturally and and [00:45:00] associate with commercial and social communities that are unmoored from your physical location that are more like internet based tribes of, of the biology style network state, are you going to be in an area that is sufficiently safe and, and sufficiently supplied for you to survive physically? I think that’s the bigger question, but I I, I don’t, we know many Europeans who are absolutely fantastic, who are very innovative, who are very willing to take risks. You know, it’s not like they’re all gone.

It’s just, I think it, it, this is more about a tipping point of a population, you know? Well, I mean, to the extent that they’re

Malcolm Collins: gone. Just, just to give you guys an understanding, the, when you look at the United States, and you look at the states that we think of as bad poor states, right? Like, you know, Mississippi, Alabama, something like that.

England, the average income in England is a less than the average income in the lowest income state in the United States.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So, and, and I’m open to Europe becoming strong again, but it, you know, I, I do find weakness. I

Simone Collins: don’t [00:46:00] see a pathway

Malcolm Collins: to it, unfortunately. And, and pot, potentially genetic perspective, I find weakness viscerally disgusting, like it’s, it’s repellent.

And it’s, this is also one of the reasons why I have been okay with partnering with countries like Israel, even when they screw us around frequently is because at least they’re acting with strength. And they seem to have a future. Whereas I don’t see what Europe’s future is or why I should care about what they’re doing in their death rows.

Simone Collins: And it’s not just us saying this. You can see through both the words and actions of many leaders in our current, the United States Presidential Administration. Now this is well, no, Europe

Malcolm Collins: is not an ally to the faction of America that’s going to survive.

Simone Collins: But I think what I would like to say is I what I would like to believe, at least what I feel is that our stance is pretty close to that of.

The United States per their, what, November 25 foreign engagement policy or foreign strategy policy document that they released, which is we’re, we’re writing off mainstream Europe, essentially. But we [00:47:00] are very excited to, and happy to, and interested in partnering with the innovative renegades that remain in Europe because they are there and, and we are there.

Yeah, they’re all there. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: they are there. And the question is, is can they take back their countries?

Simone Collins: But I don’t think they can. Or maybe, I mean, who knows? They can, maybe they can start techno fiefdoms in. City states that start to become possible to create in Europe as time goes on?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. From my perspective, like when I look at a place like Europe or something like that, because it has been so taken over by this mimetic virus, it’s like a hive of a virus that is fundamentally hostile to humanity.

And it’s not that there aren’t still, you know, healthy people living amongst this hive. But their lives are very, very hard because they are living in a in, in an anti-human hive, an anti vitalist hive.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s just, it’s just so much harder. Yeah. I guess what you’re saying is in, in other words, the headwinds of an innovative creative smart person in Europe are so much higher than [00:48:00] like the head, we said Yeah.

Where our kids are gonna face growing up in the United States,

Malcolm Collins: and I suspect most of the Europeans who I really like and who are part of the broader prenatals movement, will eventually migrate somewhere.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because it’s just so hard to see a future or maybe one of the countries gets taken back, maybe there’s some big movement that would be great.

But it requires starting to look for strengths and like strengths instead of this reflexive, which is key to the urban monoculture elevation of weakness.

Simone Collins: Well, one thing I’ll say is if you’re young unmoored single or maybe not and living in Europe and smart, and you’re like, I don’t really know what to do right now, consider applying to Balaji’s Network School in Singapore for an extremely reasonable amount.

Basically, you can go live and work there, and it includes everything. Your, your apartment, your food, gym membership. An amazing network of like, really interesting talk about selective pressures, right? Like there’s even I, an IQ test. To, to apply for network school. We know, ‘cause we applied, I mean, we got in, but we couldn’t, I I, I didn’t apply.

I [00:49:00] stopped

Malcolm Collins: at the IQ

Simone Collins: test. I was like, you didn’t wanna take the iq? Okay, well dude, if they me in, they’re, you know, but, but I, I don’t

Malcolm Collins: like being like that.

Simone Collins: Okay. Well anyway what I’m saying though is in terms of modern places now where you’re going to get really interesting vortexes of, or like areas or uniquely smart people have selected to go, I mean like Brian Chow who’s there right now that, that is one of the places where I would encourage young people of roughly like in their early to mid twenties who are not having yet putting out down roots to kind of just experience what it’s like to kind of, get warmed up on becoming itinerant and moving for opportunity.

And I do think that going there is one of those things that will create more opportunity if you are there for a short amount of time with like. A sense of purpose and intent. I think just going there and hoping that your life is gonna get figured out isn’t a good idea. It’s kind of like with LSD for treating mental disorders or like other hallucinogenic medications or, or substances.

People who go in, and this is just what the scientific, the peer reviewed scientific research just [00:50:00] says. If you just like trip, like with no intent, no guidance, et cetera, like you’re not gonna really make a lot of productive change mentally. Mm-hmm. But if you go in very intent driven, like, Hey, I’m gonna work on my PTSD I’m going in with, you know, an expert who’s gonna help me kind of navigate this.

I’m going in to try to fix this and address this issue. They can see really amazing results. And that’s kind of what this is, is it is a, a trip in. Basically career and disruption. Yeah. Basically,

Malcolm Collins: you’re gonna have to grow back from a techno feudalistic perspective if you want any hope of retaking anything.

Yeah. I, I think that’s the most realistic

Simone Collins: and, and the best practice session for that right now, if you want something practical and actionable right now, I’d say is apply to network school’s. Do it.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That’s one thing. I mean, there’s other things you could do apply to Founders Fund. You, if you’re, if you’re young enough to do something like that, apply to Mercatus

Simone Collins: yeah.

On the Emerge A Ventures. Yeah. So yeah, those, those are just, I think a lot. More selective. It, I’m just thinking if I was able to get into network school, it can’t be that bad. Like [00:51:00] for real,

Malcolm Collins: Simone, you’re an exceptionally intelligent person. You were top of your class at Cambridge. Like I,

Simone Collins: no,

Malcolm Collins: I do not understand how you, you literally at her undergrad, which is a giant American school, gw, she was literally top of her entire class.

Simone, you do

Simone Collins: not, there’s a huge embarrassment for you. I went to gw.

Malcolm Collins: It was a huge

Simone Collins: embarrassment.

Malcolm Collins: That’s why.

Simone Collins: No, but like, they don’t charge you to apply. I’m just saying try it. Someone try it. And if someone does try it. Like wait in the comments. I’m curious. Or has tried it. Because I, I’m, I’m very intrigued by it and I think it’s a really great short term opportunity for someone to get themself unstuck from what might be an ossifying or like kind of bad place to be right now.

And I don’t know if I would wanna be as a young 20 something in the UK or in Romania or Poland or Germany. Right. Would you?

Malcolm Collins: No, I’d,

Simone Collins: I think you And why are you like discouraging people from applying to network school? Because we can’t offer, I saying there’s other things they could apply [00:52:00] to. But yeah, yeah, sure.

Apply for an Emergent Ventures grant. If you have something interesting to pitch, apply for network school and yes, apply for some kind of Founders fund thing. And if you have a startup apply for Y Combinator. Go for it. Absolutely. I totally agree with you. It’s just that, you know, Y Combinator and their Speed Run program and Emerge Ventures and Founders Fund extremely, extremely, extremely small classes and extremely selective and also much more well known.

Whereas network state is one of those things that people haven’t yet figured out yet. And so like, you wanna get in before everyone knows about it. You know, like you wanna buy your, your Tesla stock before it becomes like a huge meme, right? This, this is the time to buy. I’m saying buy network, state sell founders.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and

Simone Collins: I like founders one too, but it’s just that they’re, they’re overvalued now is like a, you know, an opportunity stock.

Malcolm Collins: Right. And, and I, I would say to sort of, close this out, the, the whiter point I’m making here is this view that people have towards, whether it’s tism or the new [00:53:00] right, or anything like that, is some sort of like pan white ethno you know, anxiety movement is just, at least from our perspective, fundamentally wrong, where I believe that there are ethnic and cultural differences between groups.

Europe, for example, is a bigger enemy to my agenda than most other active players. Mm-hmm. Because they are the hive of the parasite. Right. You know, and as such, and, and they, and it is within the white population that that parasite is most densely concentrated. Mm-hmm. And so, and, and the, and the populations that if there are populations replacing them will simply be easier for my descendants to deal with if they decide to oppose them.

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s, that’s, that’s just the way I see things globally. Right. And I think it’s, this is an increasing view among the American. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Love you Simone.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Love you too. Gorgeous.

I, and I [00:54:00] still don’t know why he would do it, like why he wasn’t just covetous of it for himself. And then I come down and Tyson was like, I wanted you to come down and you did it. And I was disappointed. And I’m like, well, you didn’t, she knows how to use the intercom system, doesn’t she?

Malcolm Collins: I wanted you to come down and you did it.

So I was disappointed.

Simone Collins: She lets it be known. She is, she doesn’t pull punches, you know, she, that she literally believes that she poops rainbows. I can’t even, you know, that’s just like the best part. I, I’ve never, I, I thought it was just an expression, you know,

people didn’t actually think that they pooped rainbows. Maybe this is the only one in the world, but no, it can’t be. If our child did it, other children have done it. Maybe, I don’t know. You’re pretty exceptional and strange. So, coffee [00:55:00] Zilla recently did a YouTube video on a I deep fix and out of Nowhere in the Wild he mentions one of your family members.

Malcolm Collins: Oh the top. Sure.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Coffee Zilla. Did he mention him positively? Negatively?

Simone Collins: Well, just in the context of is it called Metamorph ai? His, his his company

Malcolm Collins: for people who don’t know one of my cousins runs one of the largest and, and most used AI companies for DeepFakes. Mm-hmm. And has created many viral deepfake images.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Speaker: I am gonna show you some magic. Hundreds of millions of people spent over billion minutes absorbing it. The face swap with, uh, Tom Cruise. You haven’t seen it? No. You gotta see this. Incredible. I dunno what I’m talking about. It’s crazy. I believed it though. So did the rest of the world. The rest of the world.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And then it became very scary. Very fast. Okay. TikTok impression time. This is nuts. Yeah. And it was like, well, let’s make another one. Tom [00:56:00] Cruise has become a viral hit on TikTok. Or has he? This is serious breaking news. Congress has held hearings on DeepFakes in ai and the FBI tells NBC news. They’re following the rapidly developing technology closely, the ultimate, uh, gauge for all of time.

I believe it when I see it. Yeah. And now maybe here we are. No longer the future is here.

Malcolm Collins: And referred to the AI industry is just like Malcolm and his family. Right. Like another one of my cousins runs that AI channel,

Simone Collins: Aurora

Malcolm Collins: Company.

Simone Collins: Aurora

Malcolm Collins: what?

Simone Collins: Aurora.

Malcolm Collins: Aurora, yeah. That people are always protesting, taking jobs and of course you’ve got us with our fab.ai trying to make better agents.

You know, and there are other family members doing stuff. I can’t talk about that. The two that are very public about what they’re working on.

Simone Collins: We like to I guess Collin Collins’, you guys like to be on the cutting edge of whatever’s happening.

Malcolm Collins: We were last generation. I see no reason. Like we were super [00:57:00] important in the setting up of the Santa Fe Institute into what it became.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: I know. It’s seeing, it is like for the eighties and the nineties, like the center of intellectualism.

Simone Collins: Sure. And

Malcolm Collins: Epstein kept wanting to get involved in that. I actually searched my dad.

Simone Collins: He did. He did. He donated significantly to it. Have you asked your dad yet if he ever met Epstein? . Your mic’s not coming through when you have a habit of throwing your electronics on the floor. Look, you and I have exactly the same mic. My computer is way older than yours. The only difference between our mic’s lived experience is that mine doesn’t get regularly thrown on the floor and or put within the reach of children, and yours does.

I think they believe that they’re pummeling devices. They’re like, oh, look at this. A new stick with which I can hit someone. Okay. So yeah. Did you

Malcolm Collins: also, I, I need to, you have to ask that mischaracterization [00:58:00] there.

Her mic doesn’t get moved from where it is because she, one doesn’t do editing and two doesn’t take care of the kids in her room and just bans them from her room where I don’t, infants that can’t grab microphones. You think he’s gonna go grab your microphone?

Simone Collins: He’s in my office all day. Octavian.

Malcolm Collins: Is your microphone in your office?

Simone Collins: No, it’s not. It’s in my, it’s in my bedroom. So fair.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway, yeah, so I, I checked the email list and I didn’t find it, but he did end the conversation as soon as I asked him about it. I’m not sure if he had somewhere to be here.

Simone Collins: Your dad.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Somewhere to be in his super busy life

Malcolm Collins: anyway.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But fun, fun to sort of be at the center of everything that’s happening and

Simone Collins: oh, the email list?

Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah, I, I checked the databases too for your dad’s name. Yeah. Nowhere to be seen.

Malcolm Collins: I did find my uncle’s name but it was only in articles.

Simone Collins: Oh, oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: So [00:59:00] it wasn’t his email directly, it was other people.

Simone Collins: They weren’t in communication. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: For, for clarification, my uncle used to be one of the guys who ran the Fed.

So, you know, as people communicate

Simone Collins: he would show up. Yeah. Like of course. ‘cause yeah, someone like that would show up. But I, but that’s cool. I would be shocked if your dad and Epstein were not in the same room or at like some Santa Fe Institute event because your dad went to, well, they

Malcolm Collins: must have been at the same room at times.

Yeah. But Zohan, mond’s parents were in the same room too, and I was like, that doesn’t, that doesn’t count.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I wish, I wish that there was some way for us to know, like, oh, sir, sometime we could know every time we were like in the same room as a celebrity or something. Mm-hmm. Because I’m sure it happens a lot and, and you just don’t know it.

And I just, I like, just for idle fun, I want to know, you know, like, what are your weird celebrity encounter events? Like once, I know I walked by Lindsay Lohan, but I didn’t realize it until I put it together because a flock of paparazzi then followed [01:00:00] her. And I was like, oh, okay. And then there was another time where I was in a United Lounge in SFO where Daniel Craig was getting a drink at like.

The crack of dawn.

Malcolm Collins: Well, the, the key place, if you wanna run into celebrities all the time

Simone Collins: airport lounges. Oh yeah. ‘cause we also saw the guy who played Aquaman in the British Airways lounge in Heathrow. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah.

Simone Collins: That’s right. So those, those are the three celebrity encounters I’ve, I’ve knowingly had.

What about you? Except

Malcolm Collins: for the one reported by the New York Times of us hanging

Simone Collins: out out with Oh, Elon. Oh, yeah. But that we, we don’t talk about that.

Malcolm Collins: We, we don’t talk about the ones who are like actually our friends. We have actually had a number of other celebrity encounters that are Yeah.

Simone Collins: I’m talking about the ones where like, you were at the same restaurant and whatever.

Malcolm Collins: I don’t think you don’t consider, you know, that, that, that, like our friends who are celebrities are,

Simone Collins: oh, we were in a New York restaurant where Trump’s first wife was eating.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But you are aware that our actual friends who we can never mention who are celebrities, are more famous.

Simone Collins: You don’t count

Malcolm Collins: than many of the people you just listed.

Simone Collins: I know, but they don’t count. They

Malcolm Collins: [01:01:00] don’t count because they’re just like normal people to you.

Simone Collins: No. Well, yeah, no, yeah. I’m talking about like chance encounters, where like you’re in the same area and they happen to be really famous. ‘cause I, I don’t know. I found those more interesting. Anyway, go on. Do your dear frigging well, why do you

Malcolm Collins: find that more interesting than the ones who like actually are

Simone Collins: kissing on?

Because they stress me out because I, I just feel like, I don’t know, like I, I, I, I, I, I don’t want really to meet or hang out with famous people like it. I, I feel like just the dynamics of socializing for them are so broken. Yeah. Because they know that everyone has an ulterior motive. Everyone is like thinking about the fact that they’re interacting with them while also interacting with them.

Meaning that they’re not really genuinely interacting. Like there’s, they just, so I feel like there’s too many meta games going on where they’re like, okay, was that thing said Because they’re desperately trying to impress me because they want money from me because they want me to do something. We’ll be there one

Malcolm Collins: day, Simone, [01:02:00] we’ll be there

Simone Collins: one day.

Well, that’s gonna suck. Like I hope that never hap. I honestly think though, that with the base camp community, it’s kind of not gonna happen because the specific community that we’re a part of doesn’t really attract like simps. For lack of a better term like supplicants or, or fan people. Instead, it attracts intellectual equals who enjoy talking which we’ve experienced in our paid subscribers only Hangouts.

And I really like that. So I just feel like, no, actually I, I think it would become something a little bit more like a new version of what we experienced with Renaissance Weekend or like what Renaissance Weekend was, which is an invite only ideas society for those who aren’t aware of it. Renaissance Weekend was this American Invite Only Ideas society that held

basically weekend like summits where people would come together and stay at the same hotel and have all these conversations.

It was really fun. And the idea was like, it was, it was founded by a, like a high status, well connected former [01:03:00] ambassador. So like, yeah, I mean, he was kind of famous, but like people didn’t show up because they were like. Fangirling over him and and Supplicating to him. They showed up because

Malcolm Collins: they were fangirling and supplicating over the Clintons who always showed up.

That’s it. Simone, it was the Clintons

Simone Collins: thing. No, but well, my larger point though is that like, I think more broadly, I want to believe people showed up because they knew that when they showed up to those conversations, that

Malcolm Collins: isn’t why they showed up. They showed up because it was the Clintons

Simone Collins: the went. And that’s not why your family went, they went for the idea.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. The, the entire scene was downstream of the Clintons. That was as much a, the Clinton scene during that period as you know, like, heretic as Peter Thiel.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I went to Heretic Con because it was really freaking awesome and amazing. Right.

Malcolm Collins: But the reason why it’s awesome is, and the reason why so many high profile, high status, age agentic people go is because they know that other high profile, high [01:04:00] status, age agentic people are gonna be there, that are in Peter Thiel’s network.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That’s depressing.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway,

Simone Collins: I wanna build something better. I don’t, I don’t like the, I don’t like the because also this is exactly the dynamic that, that, that Jeffrey Epstein used to manipulate people when he wasn’t using women. It, it is, it is just as much as a low blow cheat code as. Whoring out women, which is whoring out access to fancy famous people.

High profile people.

Malcolm Collins: But that’s, that’s the way society has always been structured. That is what the French court was. That is what the British Court was that

Simone Collins: No, no, it was different. In fact, the Nobles didn’t wanna be there. They were there because it was like how they got like access to important wealth and resources and, and they were, and you just

Malcolm Collins: said people

Simone Collins: don’t

Malcolm Collins: like going to these events, Simone,

Simone Collins: that people don’t actually like being there.

No, man. People had have a blast at Renaissance [01:05:00] weekend and at Dialogue and it hereon and probably at Sun Valley and, and clearly at the Bohemian Grove, as long as they’re sufficiently old and cute, if you know what I mean. Just like, oh, went camp. It, it’s like, the, the, the wholesome Boy scouts that everyone thinks is like an evil satanic ritual anyway for old men, the wholesome boy scouts for old men.

That everyone’s like, oh, it’s a Satan

Malcolm Collins: ritual. Anyway, I’ll, I’ll get started here.

Simone Collins: Okay? Yeah. Anyway. Okay. I love you. Sorry, I’m just, I missed you.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I missed you doing, we hadn’t recorded for a couple days ‘cause we had a documentary team here.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Alright.

Speaker 5: What’s happening? Mommy did a haircut and she made a kitten. A kitten side. Meow. Meow. Look. Take Did a kitten look. You a kitten. Owow a kitten. Oh, meow, meow, meow. Okay, let’s not, let’s not destroy the kitchen. Do you wanna name the kitchen?[01:06:00]

Speaker 6: Nicey. Am I gonna name the kitchen? How do want me name the kitchen? Whatcha? Are you gonna name the kitchen? Harry. Harry. Harry. The kitchen

Speaker 5: Titan. You wanna touch it when it’s on my head? Mommy. Does it feel different? Yeah. Yeah. Does it feel better? Mr. Military? Mr. Military? Mr. Military, the.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe