Behavior Precedes Culture

What does it really take to lead transformation as responsibility grows?

At some point, leadership stops being about doing the improvement work or having the right answers. For operational leaders and change practitioners alike, the work moves to holding the system—people, priorities, and consequences—and helping others learn how to do the same.

In this episode of Chain of Learning, I’m joined by Carlos Scholz, CEO of Catalysis, to explore the critical shift leaders must make to enable systemic, lasting organizational change.

Carlos shares his journey from technically trained engineer in manufacturing, to transformational change leader in healthcare leading a team of continuous improvement practitioners, to operations leader, and now CEO. Across these roles, he’s learned that transformation doesn’t fail because leaders don’t care or aren’t trying, but because we often rush to outcomes and skip the systems-level and behavioral maturity required to sustain them.

This conversation highlights a critical truth: leadership is practice. It’s not a role or a title, it’s how you intentionally show up and get better, day after day.

Together, we explore what really changes as leadership responsibility and organizational complexity increase, how leaders have to change their own behavior, and how influence shifts when the work is no longer about doing improvement, but about developing leaders who can own the system.

In this episode, we explore:

• Why leadership becomes less about expertise and more about intentional practice as scope and responsibility expand
• What changes when you move from leading through influence to owning the system through positional authority and the consequences that come with it
• How identity and perceived value shape resistance to change, including your own
• Why skipping organizational and behavioral maturity undermines reliability, even with strong intentions
• How repositioning improvement teams from doers to coaches helps leaders change their behavior and allows transformation to scale

If you’re navigating your own growth as a change leader—or supporting leaders in truly owning their system—this conversation offers language and perspective to help you lead with greater impact.

ABOUT MY GUEST:

Carlos Scholz is the CEO of Catalysis, a mission-driven organization advancing people-centered, value-based healthcare. A former manufacturing engineer and healthcare operations and change leader at Kaiser Permanente and NYC Health + Hospitals, he brings deep experience driving system-wide Lean and continuous improvement transformation and developing leaders at scale. Carlos was named a Shingo Rising Star and serves on the Shingo Institute Board.

IMPORTANT LINKS:

• Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/66 
• Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.com
• Connect with Carlos Scholz: linkedin.com/in/carlosscholz 
• Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson
• Download my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst 
• Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip

RELATED EPISODES:

• Episode 9 | Move from Technical Expert to Influential Leader
• Episode 16 | Leverage Analytical Systems Thinking and Psychological Safety to Drive Organizational Improvement [with Mark Graban]

TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE:

03:02 Leadership shifts Carlos made stepping into senior executive responsibility
06:19 The start of Carlos’ journey and how it evolved
relationships as it does on technical expertise
12:19 Learning that sustainable change depends as much on influence and being vulnerable and sharing openly
17:42 Multiple approaches in creating conditions for leaders to feel safe enough to be vulnerable
18:44 Importance of organizational assessment to identify behavioral gaps
24:05 Understanding that sustainable change requires aligning the entire system, not just improving isolated parts
26:32 When leaders are not on board with change efforts
28:48 Importance of both the technical and social side of being a change leader
31:30 The process of building a system of coaching
36:23 Transitioning from leading through influence to stepping into direct operational leadership

43:28 How skills developed as an influence leader strengthened operational leadership
45:57 A surprising lesson from stepping into an operational leadership role
50:16 How Carlos is leading transformation as a CEO of Catalysis
55:08 Steps to make real transformation happen
1:00:13 Reminders for leading transformational change
1:01:43 Questions for reflection to strengthen the system around you