Kelly and Tammy explore creativity through La La Land, a film that uses color like a second language and turns a highway traffic jam into magic. Tammy reflects on her own journey trying to make it in LA and why the film's authenticity around creative pursuit never fails to wreck her, while Kelly considers the deep self-belief required to chase any dream and the humiliation baked into trying. They talk about what happens when two people are more committed to their art than to each other, how the end of the film refuses to give us what we think we want, and why watching people struggle toward something they might not ever achieve is somehow the most relatable thing in the world. This episode was made possible by a grant from the John Templeton Foundation. To learn more, please visit: templeton.org
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