DEI's Role In Government Hiring

In this Based Camp episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins explore the sharp rise in Black women’s unemployment in 2025, the backlash against DEI initiatives, and why efforts to elevate specific groups as “minions” of dominant cultural powers often backfire—leaving the broader group to face the consequences.

They discuss OkCupid dating data showing Black women receive fewer responses than even many incel-labeled groups, cultural tropes and archetypes available to Black women, historical patterns of favored minorities (Tutsi in Rwanda, Protestants under Cromwell, etc.), and the personal essay by Sesali Bowen (”Black Women Aren’t Just Unemployed, They’re Being Erased”).

The conversation covers financial habits, work ethic signals, shifts from “Black Girl Magic” to post-DEI realities, AI automation, government job cuts, and why merit-based systems might ultimately benefit everyone—including those previously disadvantaged by tokenization.

Provocative, data-driven, and unfiltered—watch for a deep dive into how “well-intentioned” favoritism can intensify backlash and what this means for cultural resilience and family formation.

Would you like to know more? 👀

Show Notes

* If I were a black woman in America, I’d be going off the grid

* Right off the bat, black women have the cards stacked against them the worst in dating markets

* And now, whether or not they ever bought into it, black women may have the cards stacked against them

* Here are some choice stats from an article I came across covering this:

* “In December 2025, “Black women were spending an average of 29.7 weeks, or more than seven months, unemployed—the highest rate among every group of women and among all men except for Black men, who had a slightly higher average,” The 19th* reports.”

* “At the height of the summer volatility, Black women accounted for 54.7% of all female job losses, despite making up only 14.1% of the female workforce,” according to an analysis by the Institute for Women’s Policy Research.

* What’s sick is that the racket that caused the backlash which may be hurting a lot of black women was due to special treatment that was largely exploited by a small subset of already-privileged women

* We’ll go through the experienced of one of those privileged women

* And look at examples of other instances in which well-intentioned efforts to help specific groups have backfired

One Women’s Experience of Lost Privilege

The Purse published a guest essay from Sesali Bowen titled Black women aren’t just unemployed—they’re being erased.

Choice quotes:

THE LANDSCAPE

* “Since last fall, general unemployment rates in the U.S. have ticked up to 4.4%, from 4% at the start of 2025. At the same time, the jobless rate for Black women has surged, from 5.4% in January 2025 to a high of 7.5% last September. Economist Katicia Roy estimates that “since 2020, the real unemployment rate for Black women is 10.23%.”

* “There have been several factors linked to this disproportionate destabilization. The huge AI push, which is automating jobs that humans were once paid to do, is one. Last year’s mass cut of government jobs—where Black women are represented at twice the rate as in the private sector—and the abrupt elimination of DEI programs under the current Trump administration are notable others. As one of those Black women sidelined from the job market, this crisis feels personal.”

* Why are black women represented in government jobs at twice the rate as in the private sector?

* Data from federal EEO reports and labor researchers show that Black women are roughly twice their share of the overall labor force in federal and broader public-sector employment—about 11–12% of the federal workforce versus roughly 6–7% of the civilian labor force—while their share in the private sector roughly tracks their population share.

* Public agencies can adopt affirmative action or “affirmative employment” plans, but these must be formal, justified programs aimed at correcting documented underrepresentation, not ad hoc preferences.

* Under federal guidance, race can sometimes be one factor among many in recruitment and outreach, or in limited remedial contexts, but blanket quotas or automatic preference for minority applicants are not permitted under Title VII.

* Title VII of the Civil Rights Act makes it illegal for any employer, including government, to make hiring decisions based on race, whether that is discrimination against or for a particular racial group.

HER PERSONAL EXPERIENCE

* “I’ve been self-employed since October 2019, when I was laid off as senior entertainment editor at NYLON following an acquisition and rebrand. I got lucky and sold my first book just months later—a collection of essays about Black feminism at the intersection of hip-hop, culture, and class. I spent the next year living on my advance and a few freelance commissions, and once my manuscript was done, I pivoted to copywriting.”

* Her book: Bad Fat Black Girl: Notes from a Trap Feminist

* 351 reviews

* “Bad Fat Black Girl offers a new, inclusive feminism for the modern world. Weaving together searing personal essay and cultural commentary, Bowen interrogates sexism, fatphobia, and capitalism all within the context of race and hip-hop. In the process, she continues a Black feminist legacy of unmatched sheer determination and creative resilience.”

* “The opportunity to transfer my writing skills to branding and creative strategy was afforded to me on the heels of 2020’s racial justice reckoning. Widespread reminders that Black Lives Matter forced white people to confront their own biases about people of color and actively move past them to be better allies. When it came to Black women, specifically, this was easy to do because we were in the final years of the #BlackGirlMagic era. Spanning the 2010s to early 2020s, this period amplified how important Black women are to American culture. The general sentiment during this era was to trust Black women, as we were venerated for our expertise on politics, education, beauty, entertainment, and so much more.”

* What was #blackgirlmagic?

* #BlackGirlMagic was a phrase and hashtag used to celebrate the beauty, strength, creativity, and achievements of Black women and girls, especially in the face of racism and sexism.

* The phrase began as “Black girls are magic,” coined by CaShawn Thompson around 2013 and quickly shortened to the hashtag #BlackGirlMagic on social media.

* “During this time, about 30% of my revenue came from speaking and book engagements at universities and conferences. The rest consisted of freelance copywriting and brand strategy for different agencies and clients. I was the quintessential “multi-hyphenate,” and I started bringing in six figures annually. I self-funded my podcast (about female rap, of course) for an entire season. I started working on my debut novel, and I paid off a good chunk of credit card debt.”

WHEN THE TABLES TURN

* “Following Trump’s 2025 inauguration and the string of executive orders that followed, I felt a shift almost immediately. Many of the institutions that are most likely to support my work fall under Trump’s DEI umbrella. With his executive order dismantling federal funding for these initiatives, the organizations and academic departments that would have hosted me are now trying to remain compliant. My bookings have slowed to a near stop.”

* “These limiting policies coincided with the great AI boom. While I was used to lulls as a freelance creative strategist and copywriter, I only worked on two projects last year, when I’m normally on six to 10. And while my career began as an entertainment journalist and culture critic, the continued deterioration of traditional media has also made this path unsustainable. So without any other viable options, I decided in late 2025 to start actively applying for full-time jobs.”

* “I was surprised at how little traction I gained. Over six months I submitted dozens of applications that didn’t even land me interviews, even when I had an employee referral. The rejections led to a full-on existential crisis and forced me to ask myself some tough questions. Was I not using the right language to translate my skills? Does a multi-hyphenate muddy the waters when there are hundreds of applicants for a role? Did the author part of my career with the very Google-able online presence make me a red flag for behind-the-scenes roles that I could easily do in my sleep? Or was it the contents of said work?”

* She is implying she submitted “dozens” of resumes, which means fewer than 200 (otherwise she would have written “hundreds”

* If you’re doing a serious job search, it’s a full-time job

* You should be submitting a minimum of 10 resumes/day, and that’s assuming it’s for one of those tedious corporate applications where you have to enter tons of custom information and it takes ages or you’re preemptively developing solutions for companies and then pitching to them

* So she would have submitted at least 200 resumes in her first month (assuming she took weekends off), and yet she couldn’t do that in even six months

* Not a good sign of employability / work ethic

* There are also AI services that automate this for you

THE CULTURAL TOLL OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION OR SPECIAL STATUS

* “Many people, regardless of race and gender, have been impacted by the aforementioned shifts in technology, industries, and presidents. But what has also shifted is the narrative about Black women. On Instagram, sociologist and New York Times columnist Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom called this trend “the Great Retaliation against Black women in public life.”

* This made me wonder about whether there were other instances in history in which once-privileged groups (be they privileged via affirmative action, some form of protected status, etc.) were eventually hit with backlash and/or retaliation such that they might have been better without the artificially privileged status in the first place.

* See below

* Most painfully, she does not seem to recognize what she was participating in: “We are no longer heralded as the virtuosos of American culture. In fact, the values that earned us such visibility in previous years—equality, progress, justice, democracy—are now threats to a regime set on dominance and a revitalization of white supremacy and patriarchy. It’s not far-fetched to assume that a Black feminist thinker isn’t an ideal job candidate. I may even be a liability for any institution looking to stay in line with this new status quo.”

When Helping Specific Groups Actually Herts Them

The typical pattern:

* A state or empire confers selective advantage (education, jobs, tax status, legal carve‑outs) on one group.

* The advantaged group becomes symbolically associated with the resented regime or policy.

* When power shifts, the previously favored group is framed as illegitimate beneficiaries and sometimes as traitors or foreign interlopers.

Backlash ranges from loss of status and exclusion to organized violence, and in some instances the net effect is plausibly worse than what that group would have faced had no special privileges marked them out in the first place.

Religious / Ideological favoritism

Puritans and other Protestants in England after the Protectorate

Under Oliver Cromwell’s Protectorate, Puritan and other “godly” Protestants enjoyed political and cultural ascendancy, while Anglicans and Catholics were constrained. With the Restoration of the monarchy in 1660, many of these previously privileged Protestants lost power and faced legal and social reprisals, a dynamic often cited in discussions of how a phase of religious favoritism can trigger later reaction once the balance of power flips.

White Christian segregationist institutions in the US

For decades, white Christian schools and universities in the US South benefited from informal state favoritism and de facto protection for racially discriminatory policies. When federal civil‑rights enforcement eventually removed tax exemptions (as in the Bob Jones University case) and other privileges, the resulting backlash helped catalyze the modern religious right, whose leaders framed themselves as persecuted victims of an anti‑religious state, even though they had previously benefited from state‑tolerated discrimination.

European‑allied minorities in other colonies (general pattern)

Colonial powers frequently empowered particular ethnic or religious groups (as soldiers, clerks, or intermediaries), which then became lightning rods for hostility after independence. Research on “ethnic empowering policies” finds that groups colonially favored in bureaucratic roles are often politically excluded once a different group captures the post‑colonial state, suggesting that the temporary advantage can turn into long‑run vulnerability.

* One could argue that black women were a minority that was urban monoculture allied, acting as its agent, and now that the urban monoculture is experiencing backlash, they’re the lightening rod

Tutsi in Rwanda under Belgian rule

Belgian colonial authorities racialized and elevated the Tutsi minority as “superior,” reserving most education and administrative posts for them, and using Tutsi chiefs to enforce forced labor on the Hutu majority. After the late‑1950s independence struggle and the 1959–62 “social revolution,” Hutu elites seized power, carried out massacres, imposed systematic discrimination, and drove hundreds of thousands of Tutsi into exile, laying the groundwork for the 1994 genocide. This is a stark case where an externally created privileged status intensified later backlash far beyond what would likely have occurred absent that colonial favoritism.

Syria – Alawites under and after the French Mandate

During the French Mandate, minority communities (including Alawites) were heavily recruited into colonial military units, giving them status and a pathway into coercive institutions relative to many Sunni Arabs. In the post‑independence era, segments of these same minorities—now embedded in the army and security services—became associated with regime power, and have faced intense, identity‑coded backlash during episodes of revolt and civil war, illustrating how initial preferential recruitment can later mark a group as a legitimate target for revenge when regimes are contested.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] what’s fascinating is as soon as people realized, well, this is unfair ‘cause only black women have access to it, why don’t we just make trans people our community of power? They abandoned black women.

Simone Collins: But I have this great essay that I came across by one of the black women who was one of the few very elite beneficiaries of DEI, who’s now very angry about the beginning of the end.

Malcolm Collins: Simon, she, she actually said something that. Validated what I said going into this no. She said no, I paid off a large amount of my credit card debt. . What she is saying is that she, one didn’t pay off all of her credit card debt, which is pretty astonishing to have so much credit card debt that during a period of your life where you are having a financial windfall, you cannot even pay it all off.

Would you like to know more?

Simone Collins: Hello Malcolm. I’m excited to be speaking with you today because, oh my gosh. And just, I’ve decided that basically if I [00:01:00] were a black woman in America, or if like one of our daughters just was a black woman in America, I’d basically be saying like, go off the grade girl. Like it’s, it’s over. Just, I, I don’t know what to do.

‘cause we’ve already talked so much about like how the dating cards are stacked against them. Like if we’re just playing like a video game of, but based on reality style, stats.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: What do you wanna do if it’s a dating game is to be a black woman like anyone, but be a black woman.

And now,

Malcolm Collins: oh, black women are blurred on the dating market and the OkCupid stats.

They like, they’re one of the only ethnic matchups black women where their own race doesn’t even have a preference for them.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Pre has a preference against Yeah. It’s like just no one. So I mean, like, so, so yeah, like go live by yourself off the grid. Because now

Malcolm Collins: also, oh, you know how bad it is to be a black woman Yeah.

On online dating. Yeah. You, you literally from the OkCupid statistics guys who are like mad in sell whatevers.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Black women actually have a lower chance of [00:02:00] having somebody reply to them than white men do.

Simone Collins: I know, I know.

Malcolm Collins: Keep that in mind. That’s how bad it’s

Simone Collins: wait minute, wait a minute. Yeah. No, because like, white men, you think it couldn’t be worse?

Oh, it can be. Oh, it can be. You think you have it bad. You’re a white dude watching this show. You don’t even know. And, and now whether they, which is really frustrating whether or not they bought in to like all the sort of DEI stuff that had recently helped many black women in America. It looks like maybe the cards are stacked against them in the job market too.

And that sucks. Here’s some choice stats from an article I came across covering this. In December, 2025, black women were spending an average of 29.7 weeks or more than seven months unemployed. The highest rate among every group of women, and among all men, except black men who had a slightly higher average than 19th reports.

And then at the height of the summer volatility, black women accounted for 54 point. 7% of all female job losses despite making up only [00:03:00] 14.1% of the female workforce according to analysis by the Institute for Women’s Policy Research. And and what’s sick is that the racket that caused the backlash may be hurting a lot of black women due to special treatment that was largely exploited by only a very, very small portion of already privileged black women.

I. So what I’d like to do in this episode is go through the experience of one of these privileged women who has gone through sort of the DEI Renaissance and who very clearly financially benefited from it. And then now is experiencing the fallout as there has been backlash against it. And then I wanna look at examples of other instances in which presumably well intentioned though we’ll see.

It’s not really efforts to help specific groups have backfired, ultimately hurting them. Mm-hmm. And I think really the punchline of this [00:04:00] is what you actually see when you look at other or previous, like favoritism or affirmative action programs. They were never actually meant to help underprivileged groups.

And this is super interesting. I didn’t really put this all together until I just started doing research for this episode, but really what it is, is a dominant power. Be it like a regime or colonial power chooses a specific minority group to basically be its minions and execute its prerogative and then win that colonial part.

Power like either loses some footing or there’s a regime change. That group of minions that they had empowered disproportionately to do their bidding gets major backlash.

Malcolm Collins: And we see this with Jews a lot.

Simone Collins: You see this with Jews. You see this, I’m gonna give examples from Rwanda. I’m gonna give examples from Protestants in England.

I, so I, I, what I’m pointing out though is what we don’t realize [00:05:00] is that black women in this, in this instance, were the minions of the latest colonial power. We literally call the, the progress pride flag, the colonizer’s flag of the urban monoculture, how

Malcolm Collins: Fascinat point,

Simone Collins: the urban monoculture had appointed black women as their minority group minions to execute their bidding and had installed them system systematic position to power.

Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, and, and what’s fascinating is as soon as people realized, well, this is unfair ‘cause only black women have access to it, why don’t we just make trans people our community of power? They abandoned black women.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And, and, and well, and then since there’s been at least a partial regime change, both of those groups have seen a major falling out.

And what’s. What sucks, if you, like, let’s say you’re, you’re a Tootsie in Rwanda or you’re, you know, some other group that has been given disproportionate power by the regime in charge or by a, [00:06:00] a foreign colonist, right? That foreign group or the regime that’s in power, like they’re sitting high, right?

They’re above the fray, right. They’re, they’re fine. Like, okay, we, we’ll go, we’ll, we’ll go with toot season in Rwanda. And, and, and for context, I’ll, I’ll just jump forward to like this example of what, of what happened because I think not that many people are familiar with Rwanda genocide ‘cause it’s kind of depressing. Belgian colonial authorities radicalized and elevated the Tootsie minority as superior reserving most education and administrative posts for them. And then using Tootsie Chiefs to enforce. Basically it forced labor on the WHO to majority. And then after the late 1950s there was an independent struggle.

And in the 1959 to 62 social revolution, who to elites seized power, carried out, massacres, imposed systematic discrimination, and drove hundreds of thousands of Tootsie into exile. And that laid the groundwork for subsequent 1994 genocide. So the tootsies went from being like given all this privilege [00:07:00] and extra education and kind of given the power to like anchor a lot of people.

And then in the end they got genocided. And it’s just a really good, it’s one of the more extreme and stark cases where a very externally created privileged status than intensified into backlash. That was really violent. But this whole time. The Belgians are fine. Right. And it’s not like all tootsies were like they actively choosing to participate to participate in this.

Right. You know, this is over multi-generation, like in 1994 is when the genocide took place and a lot of this stuff was happening in the early fifties. So like kids of people who had like no participation in this are getting caught up in it. And that’s what really sucks about this, you know, favoritism.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Is like a very small minority of, of the, of the, of the, the minions, we’ll say the colonial minions gets to benefit from the favoritism, the DEI, the affirmative action, the whatever it’s right. And then everyone else in their group pays. [00:08:00] A very big price, typically dis I would say, a disproportionate price.

And I just didn’t realize until today that that is probably happening to black women. But I have this great short little essay that I came across just a little, a little treasure by one of the, one of the black women who I would say was one of the few very elite beneficiaries of DEI, who’s now very angry about the beginning of the end.

And so what, what happened basically was the purse, which is a, a sort of financial management economics focused substack, published a guest essay, a guest essay from Ali Bowen which is titled Black Women. Aren’t just unemployed, they’re being erased. And I’m gonna share some choice quotes from the article.

If you’re,

Malcolm Collins: I wanna go into a few other challenges that black women have in regards to this stuff.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: One is, one is cultural. Yeah. And the other [00:09:00] is what’s the word I’m, I’m looking for? So one is called Oh yes. The other is in terms of

Simone Collins: like, the fact that immigrants are so much better off than like in descendants of slaves.

Malcolm Collins: Well, black women who grew up in the United States. You typically, when you’re sort of building your personality, as we talk about, you have a sort of theory of mind that’s constantly running in the background and determines what you think about things. So what I mean by that is you experience some environmental stimuli, you experience some thought, and you’re trying to decide what emotion you have in response to that.

What you do is you say you, you, there’s a part of your brain, your, your consciousness that references this theory of mind that’s running and is asking, what does somebody like me feel about this? Because you can feel different things that we tell this, like Adam’s family theory. If you want to interpret, you know, wilted rose’s positively you can, it’s, it’s completely determined on how you see yourself and what sort of person you see yourself as.

Mm-hmm. Most people really only have as a choice for this internal [00:10:00] model of themselves, a trope that they are aware of in society because they do not have, it’s, it’s, it’s very rare for somebody to have these self. Knowledge and ownership to be able to construct their own trope of themselves completely a priori.

And the problem is, is that when you are choosing that trope, you know, or that trope is sort of choosing for you, it’s chosen from a number of tropes you see in your society. And this is where like representation does actually matter. The problem is, is that black women do not have many tropes to choose between.

And the ones that they do have to choose between are generally pretty unlikeable and toxic.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so when they’re choosing, like, what is it like to be me? Like what’s my personality to black women? Yeah. They may see black women astronauts now, and they may see black women lead characters now, but they all have like one of two personality profiles constructed by woke people that in real [00:11:00] life are actually quite toxic to be around.

Mm-hmm. Right. You know, the, the self-assured, sassy puts down men, you know, now they don’t, they didn’t decide to do this on their own, but they saw, oh, this is the way a black woman acts because this is the way black women act in, in the media. I have seen in the, in the world that I’ve seen right, of they don’t see some alternate archetype within their family or within their church, which you used to have other black women archetypes, but society,

Simone Collins: I mean there are many out there.

I mean, I think one. That is more common because I, I’ve watched a bunch of shows ‘cause they frankly have the best fashion that have like mostly all black. Oh. Either mostly or all black casts is just like the long suffering, doing it all for everyone, woman. Which I don’t know, I don’t see as like par particularly negative.

That’s, that’s

Malcolm Collins: not forever. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Maybe inadequate delegation, but like

Malcolm Collins: that’s a, that’s a common one in, in Latin [00:12:00] American culture too. Yeah. Yeah. But the, the, the second thing I was going to say is it’s a black cultural problem. So we’ll do a separate episode on this someday where I’d point out that.

Black Americans took a lot of their culture. From the culture that I come from, the Scots Irish culture, they are culturally very, very, very similar. As I point out, you know, I’ll, I’ll,

Simone Collins: I find that surprising that you’d say that. I mean, because I feel like if you look at the culture anthropology of, of black Americans, there’s so much like French influence.

That’s why you see a lot of French influence in black names in America. You’ve got the whole like New Orleans. No, the French

Malcolm Collins: influence is highly affectatious. It’s not actually in their culture. So if I am going to describe a stereotype that is offensive of two groups gathering, okay. Okay. They are out barbecuing.

They just got back from church. Oh. They are [00:13:00] loudly listening to music that is descendant from country and blues music of the

Simone Collins: right. This is like exactly what like we would do.

Malcolm Collins: They are eating. Fried chicken

Simone Collins: as would

Malcolm Collins: we, and eating watermelons,

Simone Collins: which we would too. Yeah. Okay. Actually, nevermind.

Yeah. Okay. Fair.

Malcolm Collins: What two groups have parties exactly like that?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Rednecks, the, the group that I come from and Black Americans they are highly resistant to people who think like, they, they feel an in an infectious anger to people who think they’re better than them. Mm. They are both highly conspiratorial groups, very obsessed with conspiracy theories.

Yeah. Authority. They, they both are anti-authority groups. They are both unusually violent groups. Mm-hmm. But. The one thing that the black culture did not copy over, which has unfortunately hugely damaged them, is a reflective disgust for people showing off wealth or status. Mm-hmm. And as such black culture unfortunately has [00:14:00] a problem with investing too much of the money they pull in, in signs of wealth and status, particularly expensive ones.

Where you will see even like famous rappers rent jewelry, so they can look even fame wealthier than they most, like most rapper jewelry is rented. Did you not know that? And so that they can look even that much more wealthier than they actually are. Like they should have all of the money they ever need, and yet they need to show off and even exaggerated and fake.

Iteration of their wealth which is obviously like hyperoxic, which puts them in a uniquely financially insecure situation, but continue.

Simone Collins: Wow. Okay. I, sorry, I just now need to look at Julie Rental because I. That’s fascinating.

Malcolm Collins: Well, actually another place you see this in black culture is in the ways that blacks form gangs.

Blacks never formed [00:15:00] a, a gang that was as hierarchically organized. Successfully as the Catholic gangs, like the Mob or the Mafia or MS 16 or whatever, they, they have had large gangs like the Crips and the Bloods and stuff like that. But they function more like, backwards gangs, which would be like groups with lots of internal warring factions mm-hmm.

That are highly decentralized and often at war with themselves as much as the outside. Which is why when you would think that blacks should have more domination over criminal enterprises, it’s often other groups of immigrant gangs that have more domination over the large organized criminal enterprises and the black gangs that are usually exploited by those gangs as foot soldiers.

Simone Collins: Okay. Interesting. Right. Anyway, yes. I’m going to, I’m going to read this, this woman, this woman’s Substack article. Black women aren’t just un unemployed, they’re being arrested first. She, she lays out the landscape. I’m not gonna [00:16:00] read, I’m gonna read most of the article ‘cause it’s pretty short, but I’ll, I’ll go fast.

So she sets out the landscape since last fall. General unemployment rates in the US have ticked up 4.4% from 4% at the start of 2025. At the same time, the jobless rate for black women has surged from 5.4% in January, 2025 to a high of 7.5%. Last September, economists Eco, sorry, economists, economist Katisha Roy estimates that since 2020 the real unemployment rate for black women is 10.23%.

Which is really high. There have been several factors linked to the disproportionate destabilization, the huge AI push, which is automating jobs that humans were once paid to do is one last year’s mass. A cut of government jobs where black women are represented at twice the rate as the, in the private sector.

And then the abrupt elimination of DEI programs under the current Trump administration are notable others as one of those black women sideline from the job market. This crisis feels personal. I didn’t [00:17:00] know. I just finished reading that, that, that, there were black women are employed in, in the government at twice the rate as a private sector.

That is crazy.

Malcolm Collins: Well, because they, they benefit from DEI more in the pri in the government than in the private sector. And I, I wanna note here, first of all, the mere fact that we are seeing a statistical fallout from the number of jobs that were cut in the government. Yeah. Indicates that Doge was actually effective, because a lot of people have been like, no, it wasn’t effective.

They just rehired them all as contractors. Mm-hmm. And it’s like, well, clearly not, are these black women wouldn’t be having an employment issue. Right? Yeah. So they must be rehiring the ones who weren’t there for DEI reasons, which sounds like a good thing for me. Yeah. The second issue that we’re dealing with here is when you create something like DEI, you create a perception on the market especially if they’ve gone on to like higher positions than they would otherwise be able to get within the government, which mm-hmm.

They, they did get mm-hmm. That you just cannot trust their competence. If somebody meets x racial heuristics, right? Mm-hmm. And black women have unfortunately [00:18:00] been left in that position sort of on, on the job market where somebody is just going to, even a black woman who’s just being sane about things like, oh, I bet you she had it easy, you know?

Because

Simone Collins: yeah, yeah. She probably wasn’t subject to the same. Pressures. And I honestly, I, I didn’t believe, I didn’t believe her. I was like, that can’t be true. But it, it is true that data from federal EEO reports and labor researchers show that black women are roughly twice the share of overall labor in the federal and broader public sector employment.

So they’re about 11 to 12% of the federal workforce versus roughly six to 7% of the civilian labor force. So,

Malcolm Collins: and I, I’d also point out

Simone Collins: just, just to point out, their share in the private sector roughly represents their share of the population. So it’s not weird, it’s not like they’re discriminated against in the private sector.

It’s that there’s clearly positive discrimination of some sort in the public sector, even though title let’s see, title seven [00:19:00] of the Civil Rights Act makes it illegal for any employer, including the government to make hiring decisions based on race, whether that’s against a particular racial group or just something else.

And so something’s kind of weird happening because. You don’t get like. Disproportionate in per the population in, in government without some form of discrimination, I think.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But the, the interesting thing, another interesting thing we’re seeing, I think yeah, that’s gonna really hurt black women is that you have a new sort of favored class within the urban monoculture.

And you can see this in groups that are extremely woke, you know? Yeah. More woke than government, which is something like the video games industry. Mm-hmm. In the latest video games industry report of the employees who were under 40 40% of them, that’s like 20 times the rate of the general population were gay or L-G-B-T-Q in some way.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so that population, the, the larger alphabet two population that really anyone can identify into, if they feel like it, as I’ve pointed out that technically by LGBT rules, Simone and I are [00:20:00] trans. Because I don’t identify strongly with my gender, which makes me gender queer. She doesn’t either, like, I just don’t care.

It’s, I don’t, I do not see why people think really don’t care. Yeah. I cannot emulate why a trans person would care enough to undergo major surgery if I was a girl, I’d just be like, whatever, I’ll, I’ll live my life as a girl now. I’ll figure it out, right? Mm-hmm. And that makes me trans. So it is funny, the, the mere fact that I can’t understand why a trans person would care, puts me in their weird gender queer umbrella.

So, trans individuals. So, so anyone can identify, I could identify as I wanted to. Which gets me an advantage in the video games industry. Well now, you know, I don’t need to fill these spots with black women. And so a lot of black women were falling into the boomer woke, I guess I’d call it like the older version of woke, which you see within the government and stuff like that.

Ah, which people haven’t gotten the message that the rules have changed about who you favor. And what’s worse about Boomer woke is boomer woke jobs are the jobs that are the easiest to automate with [00:21:00] ai. You know, it is the, the, you know, the pencil pusher at the DMV or something like that, which it’s the very first jobs we should be automating.

Yeah. And those jobs were disproportionately held by black women.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of even like the private sector favoritism, we’re, we’re gonna see that in her reflection o of her personal experience. So she wrote, I’ve been self-employed since October, 2019 when I was laid off as senior entertainment editor at Nylon.

Following an acquisition and rebrand, I got lucky and sold my first book just months later, a collection of essays about black feminism at the intersection of hip hop culture and class. I spent the next year living on my advance, hold on freelance commissions. Hold on. I’m gonna tell you the title of the book and I’m gonna read a description and then you can comment because that might give you more.

And once my manuscript was done, I pivoted to copywriting. So, just before you comment on how, like, the now dying publishing industry disproportionately favored certain types, and this was one of those, you know, [00:22:00] I mean right. The, like, the publishing world was a big arm of what we, we would call the colonizers of the urban monoculture.

They were hiring their chosen minion class, which included black women and trans people. She was one of them and she benefited from it. Her book, just so you know is. One. It, it looked pretty successful. It got, it has 351, almost five star reviews on Amazon. It is titled Bad Fat Black Girl Notes from a Trap Feminist.

Bit from the description, bad fat black girl offers a new God I sound so white. Offers a new inclusive feminism for the modern world. Weaving together, searing personal essay and cultural commentary. Bowen interrogates, sexism, fatphobia and capitalism, all within the context of race and hip hop.

In the process, she continues a black feminist legacy of unmatched sheer determination and creative resilience comment.

Malcolm Collins: [00:23:00] So, one where was she laid off nylon, right? Like woke, industry woke job. And you can tell from what she wrote, but

Simone Collins: point out, she created just, I wanna point out right. The, the, the British Empire, you know, the whatever, like Belgians.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm.

Simone Collins: There were above it all. While there’s genocide taking place. The, the people who sold nylon, sold nylon, made money.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: You know, like, all these people are above it. The colonizers are not in the freight. The black women are catching strays at the end of all this. Just wanna point that out. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: What, and this is why it you know, it, they, I, I, I get that, but we’re seeing a collapse of that empire, right? Yeah. We’re seeing media companies and a lot of this has come downstream of, as, as people keep mentioning the shutdown of United Aid after United Aid Aid

Simone Collins: shutdown. Usaid,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. USAID

Simone Collins: United,

Malcolm Collins: Tons of media outlets, but like, like woke media outlets have started going [00:24:00] bankrupt all of a sudden out of nowhere.

And like, it appears that it may have been funding more than we realized in terms of the woke media landscape. And so now you know, entertainers like us are able to replace him.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I still think that largely they’re fine. The, the, the, the colonists many of them have quietly pivoted in a different direction.

So anyway, no,

Malcolm Collins: they’ll eventually get screwed, like when

Simone Collins: people No, they’re just gonna die. They’re also very old Malcolm, so Oh, true. They’re fine. They’re retired. They’re, when

Malcolm Collins: people stop buying, I, I, no, actually, I’m gonna push my card here. Okay. When people stop buying woke video games, eventually the entire video game industry in America collapses.

Simone Collins: Yeah. They’ve cashed out already. Malcolm, they spike nylon top, they cashed out.

Malcolm Collins: There’s a lot of woke foot soldiers that are not black women. Simone, they, there are a lot of trans woke foot soldiers. A lot of

Simone Collins: girls. No, the, the trans, I would say that the black women and trans people were, were among, like, they were, they were both the [00:25:00] tootsies, you know?

And, and at the end, I can give more examples of groups like this. I’m just using them because, you know.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, continuum.

Simone Collins: She continues The opportunity to transform my writing skills to branding and creative strategy was afforded to me on the heels of 2020s, racial justice reckoning, widespread reminders that Black Lives Matter forced white people to confront their own biases about people of color and actively move past them to be better allies.

When it came to black women specifically, this was easy to do because we were in the final years of hashtag black girl magic era, spanning the 2010s to early 2020s. This period amplified how important black women are to American culture. The general sentiment during this era was to trust black women as we are, as we were venerated for our expertise on politics, education, beauty, entertainment, and so much more.

I didn’t know about Black girl Magic ‘cause I am not that terminally online, I guess. But it was this it just celebrated basically like. Honestly, I think it was kind of a mechanism of the immunization [00:26:00] of, of black women for the colonizers flag, the urban monoculture. But it was just like, oh, black women are leaders in beauty and strength and creativity and, and oh, black women and girls have done so much.

And the phrase began as Black girls are magic. It was coined by Khan Thompson around 2013, and then it was shortened into a hashtag just just for those who didn’t

Malcolm Collins: know I wanted to know. But you can see, I mean, I, I, that’s a, a racially supremacist term, you know? Yeah. Like it’s, it’s, it’s racist, it’s white power.

It’s bad, especially if you’re a group that is getting favor was in the industries that you’re working in when you are a group with. Demonstrable systemic power over other groups. That’s why.

Well,

Simone Collins: also it seems like tokenization, like you need your magical black girl. Like what?

Malcolm Collins: I mean, they, they wanted that.

And I think one of the things about all of this, and this comes to what I was talking about earlier in terms of the archetypes available to them. Hmm. This woman, like, clearly she was captured by this and made herself into this. Well,

Simone Collins: listen’s. The thing is, is of course she leaned [00:27:00] into it. It made her a lot of money, like it was her livelihood,

Malcolm Collins: but.

She still, I think any sane person reading this takes joy in the fact that somebody that is this much of a racial supremacist, this much of a, a genuinely vile human being from the stuff I’m, I’m hearing about her, if a white person was doing this stuff, talking about white lives mattered and stuff like that, I’d be like, you’re, you’re like a really vile person and I’m glad to see you fail.

And I feel the same way when I hear about her as, as do a lot of people. So that’s another problem in this is, is they like, haven’t learned from or looked back. And said, wow, you know, I really took for granted when I had systemic power over other people, and I was abusing that for years of my life.

And I even wrote a book about that like to dance on the graves of the, you know, people who were not able to, to rise at those companies, who were not able to, for the book Deal. Penguin, for example, recently put out [00:28:00] on a number of their websites that they only want to take book deals from women and people from like rarer racial groups.

And then if somebody has, it’s

Simone Collins: like a Pokemon card.

Malcolm Collins: It sounds overly European. I think they even gave an example like Brad or something. They wouldn’t Oh. Look at their books, they wouldn’t look at their transcript.

Simone Collins: I weep for all the, the, the indigenous I don’t know Maori people

Malcolm Collins: named Brad. But the point you’re being is the, the racial discrimination in fields like the one she was in, is very, very blatant and often transparent within these organizations.

You know, when I talk about the hugely overrepresentation of L-G-B-T-Q people in hiring in the video games industry that is because of discrimination, right? Like that clearly other groups are being discriminated against for that group to have so much positive discrimination within them because they don’t make up a disproportionate amount of video game fans.

Everybody knows video game fans are predominantly straight white men, right? Like, that’s, that is the group that, that’s why they always get mad at them and say, I hate gamers and everything like that. And so, [00:29:00] that, that’s another challenge that black girls have is they just didn’t have a lot of ways of being models to build of themselves when they were given this, this option.

Right? Like, it’s like this option or the sassy option, or the beleaguered option, right? You don’t, you don’t get a lot of others and very few people are aspirational about the Bellinger option.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I’m trying to think. There, there, there are other good, there’s also the it’s the version of the Ice Queen for black women that you see in what is that?

How to Get Away With Murder. And also in there’s this other one with this like fixer in dc these are all, I think like Shonda Rhimes shows, which I think you’re delightful, but it’s like this sort of like prof, like professional black powerhouse woman who, you know, is really badass but you know, deeply emotionally hurting from everything that’s wronging her.

But I guess it’s kind of a, it’s weird because it’s a very empowered trope, but it’s also like. I’m a victim of my husband cheating on me or my boyfriend cheating on me. And not that I’m holding it all together and being [00:30:00] strong, but I just, you know, like, I dunno. Yeah. Anyway dramatic scenes of taking off wigs at the end of the day and looking in the mirror and having a thousand mile stare.

Let’s go on. Also it’s take it for granted, not granite. It’s not a rock,

Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s granite. Okay.

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: it’s changing English changes. Okay.

Simone Collins: Over time. No, it’s never granite. It’s not granite. You’re not taking it for granite.

Malcolm Collins: I am taking it for granite. Simone,

Simone Collins: by the way, did you know that granite marble tops are like mildly radioactive?

Malcolm Collins: I did not know that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Terrified of them. Anyway, she, she writes, during this time about 30% of my revenue came from speaking and book engagements at universities and conferences. The rest consisted of freelance copywriting and brand strategy for different agencies and clients. I was the quintessential multihyphenate and I started bringing in six figures annually.

I self-funded my podcast about female rap, of course, for an entire season. I started [00:31:00] working on my debut, novel, and I paid off a good chunk of credit card debt. I think that this is also indicative of the, the continued but unseen and un understood budget for DEI like the reason why these speaking engagements happened was because corporations I think felt this need to have like their, again, and I think this is horrible, like token, like, yeah, I hire.

Black influencers to talk about like hip hop culture and to educate my team about,

Malcolm Collins: but Simon, she, she actually said something that. Validated what I said going into this about financial regulation? No. She said no, I paid off a large amount of my credit card debt.

Simone Collins: Yeah, credit card debt is, is the worst kind of debt to have.

It’s incredibly high interest. It’s usually, you know, it’s, it’s stupid consumer debt that you shouldn’t have had in the first place. It’s not even like student debt or like card loans. It’s

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, but I wanna, I wanna, sorry. You can actually piece together a lot of her life from that [00:32:00] sentence. What she is saying is that she, one didn’t pay off all of her credit card debt, which is pretty astonishing to have so much credit card debt that during a period of your life where you are having a financial windfall, you cannot even pay it all off.

And then secondly, as Simone was saying that you have credit card debt in the first place. It is one thing. So just so you know, like if you’re from our cultural group, how do you relate to credit? Because like in my cultural group, the rules for relating to credit are very clear. You can get credit card, you can get debt.

Credit card debt or, or really debt?

Simone Collins: No. Debt? No. Not credit card debt? No. Credit card debt? Never credit card debt

Malcolm Collins: either. No. Hold on. Either houses or cars? Transportation. If, if outside of, and even those things, like we

Simone Collins: don’t have No, you’re, you’re, I think we’re, we’re very similar to the Mormon rules, which is it’s okay to take on debt for a student loan or for a mortgage.

I think cars are edge cases actually.

Malcolm Collins: And, and [00:33:00] for business. But rarer, but we still do it. But never like when, when it comes to credit card debt. Now, I’ll note here we’re, we’re, we believe in using credit cards. Like I use a credit card every month.

Simone Collins: Right? So you have credit. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So I have credit, but I would never.

Ever

Simone Collins: not pay off the balance every month

Malcolm Collins: about not, if I didn’t pay off the balance one month, that would be like a massive emergency in my life.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And this is true for many cultural groups. I, I would say, I think that this is like the normal way to relate to credit cards to not

Simone Collins: America anymore.

If you watch, you know, Caleb Hammer’s show apparently. Right.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, the point I’m making here is, is is she’s just dropping this incredibly casually, like she’s not embarrassed about it. She doesn’t see it as a major personal failure. Yeah. And this is not like a genetic thing for black women’s or something like this.

She was taught that just that, that’s, culturally having credit card debt for consumer [00:34:00] purchases is normal.

Simone Collins: But yeah, I mean that’s fair. I, I think that’s, it’s also a really serious issue for white people too. For something work related. I’ve been looking at a lot of credit reports recently. And, I have do, I’m outlining an episode on what is Money, because I think that that collectively at least Americans are sort of losing their concept of money in general of like, it doesn’t matter anyway. Like, I’m not gonna pay off my credit card. You’re

Malcolm Collins: watching this show and have credit card debt, like inter month credit card

Simone Collins: gt FO are you throwing

Malcolm Collins: him out the castle?

No. I’m, I need to like get on that. Okay. That is not a way to live. Okay. That will, that will like always lead to bad places. Eventually. That means you are spending more money than you can afford to be spending and the amount of money you’re going to be able to spend in your daily life is going to iteratively get less.

This is worse than like being morbidly obese or something. It means you have literally built a lifestyle where you have more stuff than you can afford and you are trading your [00:35:00] future quality of life in exchange for that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Our Tetris brick is down here and your te Tetris brick is up here and it’s getting.

Like higher. It’s very scary. Don’t do it. Yeah. But you’re allowing the, they can stay in the bouncy castle just as long as they work on it.

You scare ‘em out of the bouncy castle.

Malcolm Collins: No, they can, they can keep watching the show. They gotta

Simone Collins: not outta base camp. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Somewhere. But like, that’s a crazy line. I paid it off most of my credit card debt.

Simone Collins: Yeah. But again, like she was living off of the, the the, the cultural platforming of her group as the minions of the urban monoculture. But here’s where the tables turn. Continue reading from her article following Trump’s 2025 inauguration and the string of executive orders that followed, I felt a shift almost immediately.

Many of the institutions that are most likely to support my work fall under Trump’s DEI umbrella with his executive order dismantling federal [00:36:00] funding for these initiatives. The organizations and academic departments that would have hosted me are now trying to remain compliant. My bookings have slowed to a near stop one.

I found this to be really enlightening because I, at first I read the Title VII thing of like, well, you can’t have discrimination in hiring. But now I realize that all the DEI initiatives that existed in government were a way around that. Because there were programs specific around like, you know, a black history museum or something.

And this is gonna disproportionately attract and probably hire you know. Specific groups, and that included her particular group. She continues these limiting policies, coincided with the great AI boom, what I was used to. Lowes as a freelance creative strategist and copywriter, I only worked on two projects last year when I’m normally on six to 10.

And while my career began as an entertainment journalist and culture critic, the continued deterioration of traditional media has [00:37:00] also made this path unsustainable. So without any other viable options, I decided in late 2025 to start actively applying for full-time jobs. I was surprised at how little traction I gained.

Over six months, I submitted dozens of applications that didn’t even land me interviews, even when I had an employee referral. The rejections led to full on existential crisis and forced me to ask myself tough questions. Was I not using the right language to translate my skills? Does a multihyphenate muddy the waters when there are hundreds of applicants in a role?

Did the author part of my career with the heavy, very Googleable online presence make me a red flag for behind the scenes roles that I could easily do in my sleep? Or was it the contents of said work? So first off, I have to stop here. Because this is where I’m like, oh my God. She’s implying in, in this statement, I just read that she submitted dozens of resumes, which means that she submitted fewer than 200 resumes over six months.

Why? Because had she submitted more [00:38:00] than 200 resumes, she would’ve written hundreds, because that sounds more dramatic. Do you agree with me?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay. If you are doing serious job research, it’s a full-time job. Do you agree with me?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Okay. You should be submitting a minimum of 10 resumes a day. If you’re treating it like a full-time job, and that’s assuming that it’s one of those like tedious, like multi-step corporate things where you have to like fill in everything uniquely.

Malcolm Collins: This isn’t something I would remotely disagree with you on if she Over a period of, what, two years? Only six

Simone Collins: months? Six months. Submitted dozens.

Malcolm Collins: Dozens of, you know, like. Fans, you can’t understand if, if you work in the way that we work that is like literally comical. That is like,

yeah,

Simone Collins: well no, she, she, it let’s just 10 10 a day.

And, and, and then that’s assuming 10 very involved ones. So either you’re doing a very involved application or you’re doing the thing where you like learn about the business and then proactively pitch something to them. Like, I noticed this about your website. I’ve like preemptively fixed it. Or Here’s what I would do.

[00:39:00] Would you like me to like, basically, you know, do a test project with you? Maybe.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, nobody does that. I did that. I would do jobs did that too for random companies.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That like hadn’t hired me and then send them the job that I had done. And

Simone Collins: that’s how you got some of your jobs.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Because

Simone Collins: I’m like, dude, that’s awesome.

Didn’t

Simone Collins: always work.

Malcolm Collins: What she is saying here is basically I am. Comically unproductive. I basically thought, it’s

Simone Collins: kind of no surprise that she got hired if, if this is her work ethic. She, she actually apparently has a very, very bad work ethic and was actually literally only profiting from being an identity and showing up.

That’s why she had, you know, the book deal on the podcast and the, the speaking engagements, because literally those involved just showing up and being a black multihyphenate as, as she puts herself, right? Like, that is it, which is profoundly disturbing. And again, I wanna highlight the fact that, that these [00:40:00] are the very select few privileged people who benefited from this short term period.

And now they’re making. All black women suffer because now no one knows. It’s kind of like the, the lemon problem with cars. Like, you just don’t know.

Malcolm Collins: Well, hold on. I I would, I would actually point out here that you do kind of know

Simone Collins: I, yeah. I, unfortunately, I mean, you can tell if someone’s smart and they have a, a good work ethic

Malcolm Collins: or not.

No, no, that’s not what I meant. She is loudly signaling through her podcast work through her book name, through her online fame.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But she’s exactly the type of person who you’re gonna hire. And she’s gonna try to start a union and start doing all this you know, woke work within your company the moment she’s in your company.

Start harassing people, start making other employees’ lives miserable so that they obey her rules and they show her the status that she’s afforded. She has signaled as loud as a person can, conceivably signal. I am the very definition of the problem. And, [00:41:00] and. Because she was in environments where being a racial supremacist was just normal, right?

Like she sees nothing wrong or embarrassing about being a racial supremacist. And so she has all of this out there, right? Like if I had books like that about like being white or something like that, like, being a, a fat misogynistic man, right? Like, fat white, misogynistic man. Why? That’s hard, you know, that’s

Simone Collins: hard.

You’d

Malcolm Collins: be like, wow.

Simone Collins: To be in the basement. Dwelling And cell

Malcolm Collins: also no, there wasn’t part of her book that she’s fat. Did she say fat?

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Okay. She

Simone Collins: identifies as

Malcolm Collins: herself, so that’s another thing, right? Like it shows that she lacks self-control. Right. You know, so she’s and, and don’t be like, some people are born this way.

The difference in metabolism in terms of calories that you burn on a daily basis is around 200 calories. When you’re talking about a two standard deviation difference in human populations.

Simone Collins: I think super add up though because one pound is 3,500 calories roughly. So that, that like you can gain weight.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. I’m not saying it [00:42:00] can’t add up. Yeah. But what I’m saying is, is yes, you might require a modicum more self-control, one candy bar less a day or something like that. But like, the, this idea. And, and, and it is true that like there is a big genetic component to obesity. The problem is, is most of that genetic component is tied to your self-control abilities.

And your ability at self-discipline, which is also partially hereditary. And then if you have low on that which you can inherit but that, that also you know, demonstrates your ability to do a job or something like that, right? Mm-hmm. So she is in every way signaling that she’s a problem now.

I actually do not think that black women, when they take care of themselves likely. Deal with this problem as much. If I saw a black woman who, for example, had a history of like doing MAGA stuff when, when I looked her up or whatever or had written books against, you know, this culture,

Simone Collins: actually, I think this is why people like Candace [00:43:00] Owens did so well, is that she’s attractive articulate yeah, not ideologically captured.

I mean, this was before her schizo era. And, and people were like, I love you, you’re great. And, and you stand out because you, you tend to buck these trends. It’s kind of like how similarly tracing wood grains had described how being a conservative law student now it’s just like. Actually a great career accelerator because there are so many more opportunities for you.

Yeah, because most law students are progressive, so it’s one of those like, it’s actually a great arbitrage opportunity and you make a very good point. Okay, so maybe things aren’t as dire for black women in America as long as they’re willing to like not be ideologically captured by the urban monoculture, but

Malcolm Collins: so doesn’t benefited from this for so long and they’re unwilling to accept the the systemic advantages that their group

Simone Collins: has had you to maybe start by just playing along and puppeting it and saying the vallis of that movement.

You start to believe it over time. And then really identify deeply with it. And I think after that point, you know, leaving it [00:44:00] is leaving a cult too. Then, then you’re like, your family might not wanna talk with you anymore. Yeah. Other people might, you know, like your, your entire circle will, will see you as a traitor.

I mean, who know, Candace Owens may have gone through a lot of that. ‘cause I don’t think she started out as explicitly. In fact, she started out as very much like, I’m a victim of some form of discrimination, wasn’t it? She had this whole thing about doxing people, a whole Docs website. I, I can’t remember the whole board.

Malcolm Collins: It might have been tied to Gamer Gate, if I remember. Actually,

Simone Collins: no, it wasn’t, it wasn’t tied to Gamer Gate. It was ga it was tied to some discrimination she faced in her high school and then she wanted to like. Make it easier for other people and it involved doxing them, and that’s all I remember. But yeah.

And she didn’t start off as a conservative icon, so I can also imagine that she personally experienced a lot of, a lot of, yeah. She started

Malcolm Collins: her career as a liberal critic of the Republican party, but transitioned to the conservative commentary after a 2016 backlash against her failed startup social autopsy, which talk online bullies.

Yes. She rose to prominence by launching her red pill, black YouTube channel where she defended conservative talking points in [00:45:00] 2017.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Very interesting. Yeah. So she was like an anti-bullying person first. But, but obviously when Simon says, can someone says ideologically captured, she of course means before Mossad poisoned her.

Mm-hmm. Which by the way, I’m referencing here now, my new favorite conspiracy theory. Oh my God. Which is, why is it. That whenever somebody, be it Nick Fuentes or Candace Owens or Tucker Carlson mentions that they are potentially critical of Israel a few years later, they have a bunch of crazy ideas that don’t make any sense.

You know, getting Candace Owens, I mean, like actually crazy ideas like with Candace Owens, it’s like, now what is it that Charlie Kirk is a time traveler who went to an X-Men school. Like, like actual signs of like somebody might be poisoning her or, or Nick Fuentes who has been like. Epstein is cool, or like Tucker Carlson, who, what was his recent thing?

That Moscow is nicer than any city in the United States. Right. Like these are like actual crazy. Or, or that the [00:46:00] US troops want to like grape people after they get an unconditional surrender. Which is particularly weird because if you grow up in the United States, you know how important unconditional surrender was in terms of terms during World War II of Japan and Germany.

And yet, like everybody knows, we didn’t have a massive grape campaign there.

Speaker: I love it. Somebody followed up with this like, no, that’s not true. Look, the Russians had a great campaign in Germany. I’m like, what does that have to do with anything I’m talking about? We’re talking about the United States, which has had multiple countries do an unconditional surrender to it and never a grape campaign.

Malcolm Collins: So why did he think we would have one in Iran? And somebody pointed out to me, a fan pointed out to me, and I actually think they might have a point here, is it might be that he is so entrenched in Muslim culture now that in Muslim culture, that’s the one culture where it is actually normal to have massive rape campaigns after you conquer a territory.

Speaker 2: If, , you wanna see our slavery video, , it’s also pretty normal in Catholic culture, but it’s not officially condoned in Catholic culture where it [00:47:00] is condoned in Muslim culture. If you want to hear more about this, go to our video on is slavery a good thing? , And, , it, it’s something I wanna dig into more because the more.

I sort of study the differences between different groups. I realized that Catholic culture is dramatically, culturally more similar in the way it’s actually lived, or, , changes in behavior patterns of its adherence to Muslim culture. , And I, and I’ve said that before, but I didn’t realize how strong the effect was.

Specifically here if you want to get on. What I mean by this, , we don’t have a single case, a single case of a Puritan Quaker or backwards tradition person having or been accused of having graped, a Native American. , This is also true for Mormons. , And yet, , if you look at. , Places where you had Catholic settlements, like the Spanish conquistador settlements or, , Louisiana or Quebec, , grape of, , captives was actually pretty common.

, And, , the question is, it’s like, why? Like this is a weird difference. So we go into that, in that [00:48:00] video.

Malcolm Collins: No,

that’s

Simone Collins: the, it’s the, it’s the, yeah,

Malcolm Collins: it’s even approved of in the Koran. So like,

Simone Collins: ion Ali talks about this in her book Pray, PREY. It’s,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. The, the you know, the one guys, it’s actually a more dangerous culture than you might think it is. And giving it power might be more dangerous than you think it is.

And it may even be worse working with Joos if we can deal with mitigating its influence in our countries. But people remain

Simone Collins: so confused as to,

Malcolm Collins: but that could explain why he, he thought that because he’s just become so entrenched in like Atari culture golf cult culture at this point.

Which maybe, but I actually, I like my theory better, which is that massage just poisons anyone who

Simone Collins: delightful,

Malcolm Collins: delightful, crazy three years.

The trend continue

Simone Collins: about this, this woman’s, she, she acknowledges in, in her essay that there’s now a, a retaliation, a against black women in [00:49:00] public life.

She recognizes that other people are noticing this trend. She links to their work, but then she, she near the end of her essay, writes, we are no longer heralded as the virtuous the virtuosos of American culture. In fact, the values that earned us so much visibility in previous years, equality, progress, justice, democracy, are now threats to a regime set on dominance and a revitalization of white supremacy and patriarchy.

It’s not farfetched to assume that a black feminist thinker isn’t an ideal job candidate. It I may even be a liability for any institution looking to state my new status quo. At first, I was like, oh, she like recognizes that like her specialization in black feminist hip hop culture may not be applicable in many practical jobs in a post AI world.

Is like only plumbers matter anymore or something. But it’s not that. It’s that no black feminist hip hop specialists are too [00:50:00] dangerous because they represent equality, progress, justice, and democracy. And

Malcolm Collins: what do, what do they mean? Democracy. Literally, literally, they’re out there fighting. No PS against a democratically elected president who won the majority of the popular vote.

Like the, the idea you’re literally protesting against democracy when you are doing these protests. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this woman has written stuff that is against our elected leaders because she doesn’t like when democracy doesn’t end with her side winning. Right.

Simone Collins: Like that’s Yeah, I know, but I just, I I was like, oh my God, the irony.

Malcolm Collins: But the, but the irony of and this is something that the left got absolutely right. They just didn’t understand what they were saying when they say it, which is that when you have lived a life of privilege. Not having that privilege can feel like victimization.

Simone Collins: Oh, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and, and so, when she looked,

Simone Collins: but she would turn around and be like, yeah, welcome to [00:51:00] being in the patriarchy and not

Malcolm Collins: being favorite anymore.

She, when she looks at the Trump administration Rebuilding America meritocracy, she sees only white supremacy because it is a world where people who look like her are not unfairly advantaged. And note here, what’s really important is this unfair advantaging only happens as Simone keeps pointing out to black women in the top 10% a an education, 10% of of success, 10% of all other black women just get screwed by this.

Yeah. So basically she’s not, in addition to all of this, a race trader of the worst variety, throwing her own people under the bus rather than admitting her systemic advantages and working to reconcile them. And I, I think that you know. And again, if you’re like, what systemic advantage are you talking about?

Could a white man do what she did as a job and be expected to stay employed? No. Well then that means she was hired because of her race [00:52:00] and her sex. Right. But fortunately you know, people like her don’t have kids. They’re not part of the next generation. And this is something that is important to remember going forward as a conservative movement about American blacks.

American blacks are culturally the, the, the iteration of this culture that can survive, that still having kids is Christian. They are socially conservative. They did not participate in this massive scam that’s happened. And they’re not going to continue. It was in future generations.

Mm-hmm. And so we don’t need to punish the faction that’s making it through. At great odds. May I add, like we talk about black women dating how hard it is. We talk about black women who get all of the negatives from the DEI programs, the assumption of unfair a advance.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Gen, genuine. Yeah. Like genuine discrimination, genuine bias.

Malcolm Collins: And this is why we should be so open with the ones who are willing to [00:53:00] join our movement mm-hmm. As opposed to stay in this mindset of it’s us versus them. We’re not like progressives, we’re not actually racist. Right. Like, progressives are actually racist in the truest sense of the word. We accept anyone who comes to our movement

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Come over to Bay camp, the water’s fine. It’s

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. We need to stay that way. Right. You know? And I think that that, that one, and, and even you, you actually see this in conservative movements when, a lot of the time now you, you’re gonna have a few people who are just like random racists or whatever, but a lot of people go out of their way to attempt to be nice in, in a way that you do not see in other, because they’re afraid that they have this, this view of them.

There’s been a lot of videos of like, Trump rallies, like black guy goes to Trump rally versus black guy goes to Candace rally and like how he’s treated at the two, right? Mm-hmm. Usually they’re treated better at the Trump rally, right? Like, because they’re excited to have them as part of the movement.

And so I think that this is something that, that we need to remember. Not all of them has participated in this, but the ones that did, you [00:54:00] know, now they have permanent online branding around this and we cannot allow you know, a bending of the knee around these sorts of things until capitulation from inter like realization of the horror of what she did.

Oh, yeah.

The selfishness of the way that she acted,

Simone Collins: but I don’t. See that happen? I mean, that’s, that’s just what’s so like, difficult to read at the end of this

Malcolm Collins: a cult. Right. And she’s, she’s not gonna have kids. She’s not relevant to future generations. By the way. Note if you’re like, well, black people have, watch our episode.

Black Americans actually have a astonishingly low fertility rate. So, one, if you’re talking about blacks in America, they know have a lower fertility rate than whites in America. This happened a while ago. Watch our video on it. But if you’re talking about blacks in America who are born in America, most of that fertility rate actually comes from African immigrants.

They may have a fertility rate of around 1.35. So a dawn machine, it’s really, they basically going extinct. Yeah. And it’s because they just don’t have systems to support family formation anymore.

Simone Collins: Yeah, they, they did before. It

Malcolm Collins: was destroyed by Wokes.

Simone Collins: Yeah, right. But [00:55:00] like largely white wokes, that’s what’s like the Planned Parenthood side of this on like so many other sides of this.

It’s just they, again, this is, this is a colonizers thing. It’s just, it’s I, I, let’s go into that actually. So it, there this pattern of European allied minorities in other colonies. So it’s not just the Tutin and Rwanda. Another good example is in Syria the alloys under the French mandate. So during the French mandate mandate, minority communities, including alloys were heavily recruited into colonial military units.

And then they got status and a pathway and a pathway into coercive institutions relative to many Sunni Arabs. And then post independence segments of the same minorities, which were now basically embedded in the army. And security services became associated with regime power. And they faced very, very intense identity coed coded backlash.

And, and, pressure, and it’s just really like it sucks to be them now. But also I can point out that this is not just something of like colonial minions. [00:56:00] There’s also these different like examples of, of religious and ideological favoritism. So for example, if we’re gonna go to one of your favorites under Oliver Cromwell’s Protectorate.

Puritan and other super godly protestants enjoyed political and cultural ascendancy. And then of course, Anglicans and Catholics at the time were constrained. So when there was the 1660 restoration of the monarchy, many of the previously privileged Protestants lost power and faced a lot of legal and social reprisals.

There wasn’t like a genocide or anything, but they definitely were on the back foot. And that led many of them to flee to the colonies. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: to create a, a perfect society,

Simone Collins: a city of upon a hill.

Malcolm Collins: Great. You know, Cranwell was right, but he ended up creating his utopia in America.

Simone Collins: No, he, he created a good forcing function.

But we may have to think sort of the, the, the, the seed crystal of American culture for backlash based on this very same dynamic. Who [00:57:00] knows? I mean, maybe, maybe the super woke black women can go actually found some new. Civilization in space. That’s super cool. I don’t know maybe something good can come from this ‘cause, ‘cause something good came from this in the past.

There’s also the white Christian segregationist institutions in the US. So, for decades, various white Christian schools and universities in the US in the south benefited from informal state favoritism and defacto protection for basically racially discriminatory policies. And then when federal civil rights enforcement eventually removed tax exemptions like with, there was this case with this university called Bob Jones University, which I’d never heard of before.

There was a lot of backlash that catalyzed the modern religious right. Whose leaders framed themselves as persecuted victims of anti-religious state actors. Well, they were basically were general thinking. Yeah. But, you know, here’s another like privileged backlash. It, it is just, the argument I wanna try to make is that when you, when you see a privileged group.

[00:58:00] That that’s being, oh, like we need to help them. We’re trying to give them better opportunities. It’s rarely what you think it is. It’s rarely like some benevolent actor or like repentant actor attempting to right wrongs. Like reparations aren’t a thing. There is an agenda. These people are being used as a means to someone else’s desired ends.

And also the, the people that appear to be given privilege at that time, like, don’t weep for your lack of that privilege because it’s like one of those deals with the devil. You really don’t want it. And as much as I, I understand that for example, white men in like developed countries and especially urban areas where the urban monoculture has taken over and where they’re like the worst ‘cause they’re the patriarchy.

They are. I think over the long run, and this doesn’t, this is not to trivialize the pain that they’re [00:59:00] experiencing. They are being forced to be independent and strong and not dependent on these

Malcolm Collins: starting their own companies.

Simone Collins: The fire water of Yeah, they’re, they’re not like drunk off the fire water of the evil, you know, like people in power, like they building resilience and independence.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, this is a, a really important point that you’re making here more broadly, which is the story of America. Like if you’re actually like the story, and this is why I, I focus on him so much. I think people think he’s like a side character in history. Starts with Oliver Cranwell. Oliver Cranwell attempted

Simone Collins: Bramwell.

Malcolm Collins: Cromwell a a attempted to create the first real modern state democracy. Tried.

Simone Collins: Yeah. He tried so freaking hard. He’s like, you, this is why we can’t have nice things.

Malcolm Collins: No. Well, his core mistake that he made is every time you, you know, all the stories in early America where the various factions would get in fights and stuff like this.

Yeah. And everyone thought the state was gonna collapse. Yeah. And they’d go to George Washington and they’d say, come [01:00:00] back and fix everything for us. And he’s like, I don’t care how bad the fights get, you’ve gotta figure it out on your own. Yeah. Oliver Conwell didn’t do that. He kept coming back and saying, okay, I’ll be a dictator for five more years, and then you sort it out, then I’m gonna give you the democracy again and you get this fixed, don’t work that way.

And then work way, he would do it again. And then they’d get a big fight again, and then he’d come back again. Yeah. Because he wanted

Simone Collins: to, he, he couldn’t. It’s, it’s like when you’re the parent and you just can’t. Stand to watch your kid muddle through the thing and you know, you have to have them muddle through the thing, but you’re like, no, just let me tie your shoes.

I can’t deal with this.

Malcolm Collins: No, I mean, no one had seen how a democracy works before. No one had seen Yeah. In it like a modern democracy works before. Right? Yeah. Like, they understood about like the corruption in the Republic of Rome and stuff like this. And I think that they thought that, well maybe that’s because it was pagan, that’s not intrinsic to democracy itself.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And so, but the. Puritans who left Amer England after that period when they saw how successful Oliver Cro, because Oliver Conwell’s England was astonishingly [01:01:00] successful. Astonishingly, genuinely equal tolerant and obviously very anti-Catholic. And they come to America. In America.

It one reason that we talked about one of the core reasons for the revolution, which is not taught in history classes right now, is that Canada, which they saw as like a connected colony segment, was looking at giving Catholics the right to vote. And they were like, whoa, like that this is getting dangerous, right?

Like, yeah, a little

Simone Collins: too much, A little too much, little too much.

Malcolm Collins: But. This ethos that he represented and the ethos that his Britain represented you can say, oh, well, they were given power and they did a lot of good with it. They actually created something of a utopian society without all of the trivialities of, of, of theater and, and you know, all, all of these indulgences that had come to invade society at the time.

And, and have since then rotted and festered to such an extent. Yeah. But that he, he created that utopian society and when it was destroyed and the people who created it were disproportionately discriminated against, they [01:02:00] did what a strong agentic people does, which is they said, you know what?

Screw you guys. I’m gonna go create my city on a hill somewhere else, and I’m gonna show you I can do it 10 times better than you and America if you are unaware of this. The American colonies became astonishingly wealthy, was in the British Empire. The American colonies were significantly more wealthy than say your average British citizen.

Yeah. Because they actually had this work ethic. They actually had this mindset. They didn’t let the, the indulgences of society corrupt them. And I think that that’s the vision that we need to bring back to America, which is a cromwellian society.

Simone Collins: That’s not gonna happen. It’s a nice try. We have to do that in space.

Look, manifest destiny is not over. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta, there’s the final frontier friend. And that’s, that’s, that’s what’s gonna happen. But you have through that, that example given me hope that maybe instead of living off the grid, black women can just [01:03:00] create. Some new breakout society like screw this.

Actually

Malcolm Collins: they try to do that sort of thing all the time.

Simone Collins: No, that, that the whole like white woman disappearing to a cat colony in South America or something

Malcolm Collins: was No, but they, you try to do like these, these all black, not black women, but all black like cities and stuff like that. And they like have

Simone Collins: where, when,

Malcolm Collins: There was a recent one where they tried to do it in Georgia or something.

Oh. It was like in the last four years or might have been like, the

Simone Collins: only

Malcolm Collins: thing I’ve

Simone Collins: heard

Malcolm Collins: about

Simone Collins: is the all white community. The No,

Malcolm Collins: no, no, no. There’s a few all black communities that are, is just a progressive. Media doesn’t freak out about it in the same way.

Simone Collins: Huh.

Malcolm Collins: They treat it like it’s this great thing and then somebody tries to create an all white community and they realize, watch our episode.

Like what sort of white racist would dane to date a white woman? Don’t they know that they’re the problem? And so they,

Simone Collins: the co-founder tweeted like. Please, gentlemen. Like if you,

Malcolm Collins: they’re all dating Asians and Latinas

Simone Collins: don’t [01:04:00] apply. Yes. Like, no way. She actually has to be, please, please.

Malcolm Collins: Like, I’m just as racist as anyone.

And he’s like, why are you dating a Latina? And he goes, I said, I’m racist. Do you think I date a white woman?

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Like, they’re the worst. Yeah.

Simone Collins: It’s, I I feel like maybe that’s kind of the, the final unicorn is, is to find a white supremacist woman. You know, they’re just, where are they? I guess they’re largely offline.

But they’re they’re hard to find.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no. The, the real catch for the white supremacist man is the Indian woman these days. That’s the

Simone Collins: no, no, no, no, no, no. No. Anti, anti-Indian sentiment is, oh, I

Malcolm Collins: know. All

Simone Collins: time

Malcolm Collins: anti-Indian sentiment is like only people who don’t have wives or kids. I, I actually, I’ve never met a person with children who has anti-Indian sentiment.

Simone Collins: Oh, well I have.

Malcolm Collins: You have?

Simone Collins: Oh, oh yeah. No, it’s it’s big. It is surging online. There’s a confluence of things that have caused it to get a lot worse.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, I mean, we point out Indians do systemically discriminate against non-Indians [01:05:00] and will create situations that are demonstrably unfair for non-Indians in the US tech sector.

Simone Collins: That, I mean, so another really big thing is that Canada created the, basically like, oh, if you’re going to a university, you are. You can come to Canada. Something along like it was, there was an immigration status thing, and then there basically was this emergence of diploma mills for as one person online comment, or described it under qualified punjabis who were just going to Canada and going to these diploma mills, and then just getting dumped into the Canadian workforce.

And really angering Canadians, which totally showed up in our con comments.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Like Canadians being mad at Indian right now. So there that, that policy in Canada, like Trudeau’s immigration policy regarding universities and, and then the subsequent diploma mills was one big factor. Another big factor was Trump’s 2025 election which led many social media platforms to just put their hands up and stop moderating what [01:06:00] seems like racist comments, et cetera, et cetera.

Which has led to a, a lot of. At least a lot less moderation of, for example, anti-Indian sentiment. Then also Narinda Modi’s government, I think is more supportive of Israel, which internationally is,

Malcolm Collins: well, I mean the, the government in India right now is dealing, it is, it is attempting to address Muslim cultural influence in the country.

And

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: this is causing some consternation.

Simone Collins: Some consternation, yes. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Among

Simone Collins: outside. So that, there’s that factor as well, like that they’re okay with Israel. Oh my God. Now we must hate them more. And then the additional H one B Visa. Anger in the United States, which you alluded to there with, with a lot of hiring favoritism and people, several people who are in, in touch with the base camp community, active Act, active contributors have talked about [01:07:00] active discrimination that they firsthand have observed in various workplaces.

Yeah. On the job markets themselves. With clearly companies closing, like laying off jobs held by American citizens and hiring. Based on H one B status, which you’re supposed to be, you have, you have to demonstrate that, well, we can’t find this talent in the us they’re not here. But what companies in practice are doing in the US is laying off perfectly qualified people that they already had, and then hiring H one B employees who then, because they’re so dependent on the job, for their ability to stay in the United States, can be exploited.

Like, it’s, it’s not nice. It’s not a, you know, it’s not like, oh, well, at least the Indians who are immigrating here are doing well. Like, no, they’re also kind of being put in not great situations either.

Malcolm Collins: So, well, I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, well, this is an interesting thing in terms of the, the, the, the, the the anger that’s had here.

Mm-hmm. Because it’s entirely created by the systems themselves. Mm-hmm. And not necessarily by the [01:08:00] Indians. Right? Like if you were born in India, like an Indian in India, and you saw a system like this where you could get more money and live in a better country,

Simone Collins: it’s a logical choice. It’s still the logical choice.

Malcolm Collins: It’s still the logical choice. And you can say, well, like, well, it’s unfair for the native people. And I’d be like, yeah, but I care about my kids more than,

Simone Collins: yeah. Like, that matters more. Like being able to send remittances, remittances to your family matters a lot more. So there are two more factions, or sorry, two more factors, which I didn’t know about, which have led to the Indian hate.

One is that a lot of internet has expanded throughout India like the actual continent of India and, and, and smartphone adoption has just accelerated rapidly leading to a lot of far less privileged Indians in more remote areas of, of India getting access to the internet and smartphones, which you think is a good thing.

But what are they jumping to? They’re jumping to TikTok and YouTube and making content that doesn’t reflect really well on [01:09:00] the Indian people. And this explains so much of what had confused me when I went down this rabbit hole maybe two years ago of like. What are the top viewed shorts on YouTube? And it was just like the dumbest of the dumb content that I could possibly like, stupid pratfalls.

And all of it was in various Indian dialects, like India, content like India, country based

Malcolm Collins: dialect. I don’t know if, if this is too offensive to say, but they sort of, their society into a class system for a reason.

Simone Collins: Well, no, you could also say that their class system leads to, you know, systemic discrimination.

That’s, that’s really hurting people’s ability to get educated or whatever. But basically when, when you are in a either not great cast or just cast that has been subject to, you know, subject, very low levels of resources in education, and then suddenly you’re given access to like broadcast your interests and content on the internet.

And then there’s also a lot of you so that it gets a lot of visibility. Suddenly the rest of the world is able to see this [01:10:00] very the very muddy underskirts of India basically. You wanna like shave those legs, like maybe you should help, like fix this up. But like now everyone’s seeing it very visibly because of that dynamic.

And then on top of that,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, that’s good point. Was the Indian immigrants, the most of them historically were ramen, which was the upper class that was

Simone Collins: made up. Yeah. Which is why when you and I first entered the H one B discourse, what we were anchored to was the Indians that we grew up with, the Indians that we worked alongside in Silicon Valley.

And it’s all just like very articulate, smart, motivated, conscientious, cool, fun based people. And we’re like, oh, this is like, how is, how is anyone not happy about this? These are great people.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and I think I, many of the Indians in the US do not realize that like other Indians may be because they, you know, they grew up here.

They didn’t have to live alongside this, whether

Simone Collins: you as a quote unquote model minority too. So like having a reputation like throughout the nineties of like, oh no, these like. These are great people. Don’t worry about them. Like they’re fantastic.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. You, you haven’t had to deal with the other Indians.

Simone Collins: Yeah. So anyway, that, that explained, that mystery of slop that [01:11:00] I was seeing of like, why is all of this in some Indian dialect that I don’t know, and it’s so dumb. And

Malcolm Collins: I’ve always said the most hilarious thing about Indian society for, for people who are not aware is white supremacists, like in the United States, hate it.

Yet it’s literally a white supremacist society. In that the, the caste structure in India, was largely created by Aryan Invaders from the north with Brahmans

Simone Collins: commenters have severely questioned that. So I don’t know, like FactCheck,

Malcolm Collins: no Brahmans are significantly more related to Europeans

Simone Collins: than, well you mean you can literally see it in skin color, like the, the lower down in the caste system, the darker the skin is.

And this is why when you go to India, there’s very serious, like, we’ll say cultural issues with, you know, skin whitening. Substances, et cetera. Because is an association I imagine question.

Malcolm Collins: See it in genetics. It’s like a, a

Simone Collins: genetic act. I know. It’s, it’s, it’s super, I just think it’s super messed up. But yeah.

So there’s that.

Speaker 3: And I would note, if you want to attempt to deny this, it is a denial of [01:12:00] reality that is so extreme because you’re not just denying the historic evidence that we have access to, but the genetic evidence that we have access to the modern visual, genetic evidence that we have access to There’s like multiplicative ways that we are aware of this and to be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s not the case. It’s , probably about as silly as denying that the majority of the Native American gene pool came from East Asia. , In terms of the amount of evidence that we have, that this is true, I.

Simone Collins: And then on top of all that a bunch of influencers in like the past five to seven years started going to

Malcolm Collins: India. Oh yeah. To do like the, the ceremonies.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like here’s the Indians flinging poo at each other, which actually was super wholesome and it looked fun. Like, it just looked like a funny Japanese festival.

Like here’s the penis festival. You know, it’s just like one of those, you know. Yeah. It’s like, it’s just a funny thing that one, [01:13:00] one isolated village does. Like everyone does that. And by the way, it looked really fun. Like you and I would’ve probably participated in that without the hazmat suit that guy put on.

Come on. I mean, he got an infection anyway, just like go in. I would

Malcolm Collins: not have participated in that. I’m gonna be honest, Simone, I would not have participated

Simone Collins: in that. Honestly. Like for me, just, just interacting with people is so painful. Like if you just add poop into it. Do you know how much poop ends up all over?

Dude, my Do you want I I, my hands are full. I could literally show you how much poop is all over my clothing right now. Just ‘cause I was like, today, oh, I guess you do

Malcolm Collins: have a lot

Simone Collins: of, all the diapers, the chickens, like I’m covered in poop all the time anyway, so it’s nothing to me. It means nothing. I, I

Malcolm Collins: you’re, you’re the bane of poop being a mother.

Simone Collins: I was born in the poop. But so the, the, the problem with these, like, like white Western influencers who are going to India is they’re going to slums, they’re going to really, really bad places. And again, it’s one, well, there

Malcolm Collins: are bad places in India. Come on. I

Simone Collins: know. I know. But that’s where you can get the good views is if you’re filming that and not like, really [01:14:00] cool parts and like, Nepal or like near to Nepal or like, you know, different

Malcolm Collins: region.

Oh, no, hold on. Regions. I’m gonna push back on you here. India, from what I’ve heard, is pretty much all. Like pretty much anywhere you go.

Simone Collins: That’s the impression we’re given, but apparently

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, even the wealthiest part, like my friends who have been like wealthy Indians from India, say, even if you go like two blocks from, you know, that giant tower that’s like one guy’s house like the wealthiest, no.

He, he basically built a skyscraper for himself.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And literally like, I think like five blocks from that skyscraper is a slum where people like harvest trash for money.

Simone Collins: Well, that’s like built up and, you know, sky

Malcolm Collins: well, no, but the point I’m making is India is a society that is not segregated geographically like other societies.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: And, and Europe is increasingly becoming like this in a way that I do not think is positive. So with the United States where it’s actually useful to [01:15:00] have geographic sort of

Simone Collins: have slums, bring back the slums. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Bring

Simone Collins: tech, the ghettos

Malcolm Collins: in India, the slum and the rich part of the city is separated by, do you have a pass key to get inside the building?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Which creates there, there’s very few places you can go in India where you’re not going to see, you know, beggars and starving people and, and, and grossness.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I can’t deal, I’m never, I cannot go to India. Like is I love. I love so many things about Indian culture and food and I cannot deal. I I could not, I could not.

I I could not. I I would, I would lose my mind. I would probably, yeah, I’ve known they’ve

Malcolm Collins: got a low fertility rate, so they’re not gonna be around forever, Simone.

Simone Collins: But yeah. What, how did we get on India? But those are the reasons why it’s, it’s, it’s Trump’s election. It’s Trudeau. It’s Modi and Israel. It’s, it is the widespread phone access and it is H one B visas is in the United States, and it is the [01:16:00] influencers showing bad stuff well unflattering stuff.

And that is why the Indian hate.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yeah. Well, I might see we have a second episode in this, one of you just going off on Indians.

Simone Collins: No, no, that’s, that’s just for the, that’s for the, I hear you. People who have problems with India, people because. Okay. Message received. Oh my god, guys. Wow.

Malcolm Collins: Simone. Simone, when you present her with data is very open to it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I’m autistic. Pe people are somehow surprised when they like, make ironic comments and I just take them at face value.

Malcolm Collins: Am

Simone Collins: I doing for what you expect?

Malcolm Collins: What am I doing for dinner tonight? Simon? Mom?

Simone Collins: So you can choose to take a, take a roulette roll on whether or not you’re gonna get food poisoning from the fairly old curry that has been sitting in the fridge for two nights while, oh, I’ll get food

Malcolm Collins: poisoning for that.

I’m sorry. We,

Simone Collins: let’s not, let’s not. So then, would you like to have gizo lasagna, or would you like to have [01:17:00] some new curry with coconut milk? Like from the freezer you

Malcolm Collins: mean? The, the, the lasagna. Dumplings you made?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Lasagna. Dumplings.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, lasagna. Dumplings.

Simone Collins: So do you want one ramekin of lasagna dumpling plus edamame?

Or would you like to have two ramekins? ‘cause you’re hungry.

Malcolm Collins: One ramekin plus edamame.

Simone Collins: Hi. You will have it, it will be yours. I go, I’d

Malcolm Collins: love uts. I’m gonna, I’m gonna go pick up beer. So do you want anything from Redners or anything like that?

Simone Collins: There is some medication for one of our kids at CVS. I will text you. The child is it urgent? No, not really. Like

Malcolm Collins: within this week You need it?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like within the next seven days. Yeah, but I mean, okay. No big deal.

Malcolm Collins: All right.

Simone Collins: Love you. And I love you too. I

Malcolm Collins: wanna get more coding done because I had a cool idea for how I can improve the website significantly.

Simone Collins: Okay. Well then do you want me to bring dinner to your room?

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no. I’m coming down. I wanna spend a

Simone Collins: little minute. When you come down, [01:18:00] the kids just assault you. I don’t, I don’t know how you can eat food while like five children are climbing on your shoulders

Malcolm Collins: point. That’s the point.

Simone Collins: Can you taste your food with that amount of sensory input?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. The kids, they’re, they’re very loving. That’s how they show that they love me.

Simone Collins: It is how they show that. I mean, yeah. It’s not like they’re angry at you. They’re punching is their love language.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I’ve learned, I think in a lot of cultures it probably is, or at least for our ancestors, it was, you know, I think we live in the society where you, you se you separate violence from love and in our family, because we don’t tell them.

That’s not how you show love. It is just a, a louder way to scream a hug. Is to hit somebody to jump on the, to climb

Simone Collins: on them. Oh yeah. Please chime in, in the comments if euphoric screaming is a thing that your kids do, but then I mean, just like standing there and like head thrown back and just Yay.

Yeah. Like not, yeah. Sometimes just [01:19:00] screams, sometimes battle cries. Is this a,

Malcolm Collins: is this a thing? They are the descendants of little picks. They, they, they’re little monsters.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I just, I I, I, I want to know other children do this, but

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I will say that like when I grew up, I remember. In my culture, it is normal to show affection through like wrestling, hitting, et cetera.

Yeah. Like lightly, people need to understand this isn’t like designed to hurt when they do it with their siblings. They scale it depending on the age of the sibling.

Simone Collins: Mm.

No, they’re really, they’re really good at, at Yeah. Modulating the force of their,

Malcolm Collins: I I haven’t seen it in other cultures at the same rate, like specifically the other

Simone Collins: culture.

Well really this, where did the male, the, the adult to a, the adolescent to adult male butt slap come from in like in sports?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that’s

Simone Collins: true. Where did that come from? This come from? Like,

Malcolm Collins: it’s

Simone Collins: clearly a sign

Malcolm Collins: of affection. Mind you,

Simone Collins: yeah. It’s a sign of [01:20:00] affection. It’s, it’s considered masculine.

So

has anyone slapped your butt? That’s a amazing,

Malcolm Collins: No, that was, that was today, sorry. I mean, sorry.

Simone Collins: Today. Today, not, not from our family. I know. I butt all the time,

Malcolm Collins: flat my butt repeatedly today and thought it was very funny.

Simone Collins: No, that’s a, that’s a universal thing in our

Malcolm Collins: household. I get spanked by my kids.

People think I spank my kids, I get fainted.

Simone Collins: No, they, they actually, they do that to everyone. But you’re, you’re lucky that your clothes are on. ‘cause like the, the thing that the kids do is, like, the rule of the house is if there’s an exposed butt cheek, it has to be slapped. And so like bath time gets really difficult ‘cause like if I undress one of the children as I’m trying to like hose them off in quick succession there’s just a quick like, has to like dive in and like bongo on the butt cheeks while they’re like fully dressed.

And if I’m like showering one. With like the [01:21:00] detached shower head hose. Then the other one gets total and all their clothes get soaked. And now I’m like, oh my God, what have you done? But they’re like, it’s like they, they, they realize that they’re getting points for it or something. It’s like a competitive thing.

I just,

Malcolm Collins: the culture that is organically formed within our family horrific shows, shows when you do not try to conform to societal norms and just go as whatever your evolution tells you.

Simone Collins: So fun though. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: It’s a lot of fun, first of all.

Simone Collins: No, it, it’s like a perpetual frat house party. Without the hangovers, it’s right.

It really feels like, like our house sounds like a frat party.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, constantly. Yeah. Like when we lock the kids in downstairs, it’s like, okay, we’re gonna run bam, bam

Simone Collins: are shaking.

You have bedtime so called bedtime me. Trust me. Yeah. [01:22:00] Yeah. Trust me, they, they, yeah, they’ve convergently evolved exorcism and, and trust me bro. So it’s great. Okay. Well I will work on your Giza and. This is

Malcolm Collins: something I’m really excited to because we, I really hope that we can donate one of our embryos to a family.

But I am really excited to see what would happen if one of a kid from our embryos grows up in a family from a different cultural background. Like, are they going to adapt to that cultural background? I suspect they would

Simone Collins: 100%. I think that depending on the cultural back, the, the cultural background of the scenario we’re considering is,

Malcolm Collins: would be

Simone Collins: pretty compatible.

Culturally rich, very structured, and our kids would fricking love that. Our kids want more structure. Our kids want more intellectual engagement. And I mean, our, our house is better suited for the intellectual engagement of, I would say like [01:23:00] kids nine and above.

Malcolm Collins: When you

Simone Collins: say

Malcolm Collins: intellectual engagement, do you mean chicken obsession?

Because right now everything’s about chickens.

Simone Collins: I gotta pick up chicks, tractor supply. I’ve been calling them daily. They don’t know when they’re gonna come in. Anyway. I love you. Good night. Goodbye. It’s been a pleasure. Now we’re gonna be called racist again. Great. This is my fault for, sorry for steel

Malcolm Collins: manning.

Simone Collins: I, I don’t I give up, I give up. I give up. Just I’m, I’m a trash human. Goodbye. Good night.

Titan Collins: To Indy. This is George. Is that your middle name? Oh my gosh. He lived in Africa. He was a good little monkey and always very pure. What are on? My beautiful one,

one day. A man.

Speaker 5: What’s this?

Titan Collins: A large

Speaker 6: yellow

Titan Collins: straw.

Speaker 6: The

Titan Collins: man Dodge George. Nice little.

Speaker 5: Why are there, what’s inside of it?[01:24:00]

We are almost the same. The rat had been on the man’s head. George thought it would be nice to have it on his own head. He picked it up and put it on. Do you guys like this story? Yep. Yeah, that covered George’s head. He couldn’t.

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