Founder mindset: curiosity versus fear

In today's rapidly evolving agency landscape, uncertainty has become the norm rather than the exception. From the overwhelming rise of AI to the paralysis that comes with too many decisions, agency owners are struggling to determine how to move forward with clarity. To stay competitive, founders must learn to adapt to constant change, identify true bottlenecks, evolve their roles, and simplify their systems to scale effectively.

What You'll Learn -----------------

- Getting by in the age of uncertainty - Why revenue isn't the only metric that matters - How growth requires transforming your role—not just scaling your business

Key Takeaways -------------

• The agency world isn't slowing down—and neither should you.
• Moving forward means doing the right things, at the right time, in the right role.
• Progress, not perfection, is what drives real growth.

In this rapidly evolving agency landscape, uncertainty has become the norm rather than the exception. From overwhelming decision paralysis caused by AI and doubts on how to move forward with clarity, owners need to adapt to constant change, identifying true bottlenecks, evolving their role, and simplifying systems to scale effectively.

Today's featured guest is the first point of contact for agency founders experiencing these very struggles. As someone very in tune with the issues founders face, he'll talk about the steps they need to take to prevent becoming a bottleneck that gets in the way of their own growth and share why growth isn't about doing more; it's about becoming something different.

Darby Copenhaver serves as our Agency Scale Specialist, working closely with agency founders to help them identify where they are in their growth journey and which steps they need to take next. As the first point of contact for many agencies entering Jason Swenk's ecosystem, Darby plays a critical role in diagnosing challenges, building scaling strategies, and guiding founders through the complexities of growth.

His day-to-day conversations with agency owners give Darby a unique vantage point into the current state of the industry, what's working, what's not, and where most founders get stuck.

In this episode, we'll discuss:

• Getting by in the age of uncertainty

• Stop chasing revenue as the only metric that matters

• Growth isn't just about scaling, it requires transforming your role

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Sponsors and Resources

This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started.

Herringbone Digital: If you're thinking about exiting now, planning a few years ahead, or just want to understand your options, you should know about Herringbone Digital. They're not a typical financial buyer—they're operators who actually understand what it takes to build and herringbonedigital.com/swenk scale an agency because they've done it themselves. Their approach is simple: invest in great founders, protect what's already working, and help agencies scale faster. Go to herringbonedigital.com/swenk and start the conversation.

The Age of Uncertainty (and Why It's Not All Bad)

Agency owners today are operating in an environment that's changing faster than ever. From shifting client expectations to the explosion of AI tools, the pace of change is creating a unique kind of pressure: not fear of failure, but fear of making the wrong move. As Darby points out, most founders aren't worried about losing their business; they're worried about falling behind or investing in something that becomes obsolete in months.

This uncertainty often leads to indecision. Founders remain frozen, like a deer in headlights, and in business, standing still is often the riskiest move of all. Agencies that hesitate too long risk getting overtaken by competitors who are willing to experiment, adapt, and move forward despite imperfect information.

The lesson for founders is that you don't need perfect clarity. You need momentum. Making decisions, testing, and iterating will always outperform waiting for certainty that never comes.

The Hidden Weight of Growth

As agencies grow, so does the burden of responsibility. What starts as excitement and curiosity can quickly turn into fear and pressure. Founders begin to worry about losing clients, disappointing teams, or making decisions that could jeopardize everything they've built.

It's possible to scale without losing that sense of curiosity and excitement. The difference lies in mindset. Founders who continue to operate with a "startup mentality" remain agile, open, and willing to experiment, even at scale.

On the flip side, those who become overly cautious often stall their own growth. They begin to overanalyze decisions, leading to slower execution and missed opportunities. Growth shouldn't feel like carrying a heavier burden, it should feel like gaining leverage.

Stop Chasing Revenue, Fix the Foundation

One of the biggest misconceptions in the agency world is the obsession with hitting revenue milestones, especially the coveted "seven figures." While reaching $1M is often celebrated, Jason and Darby agree revenue alone is a poor indicator of success.

If an agency hits $1M but the founder is still doing everything (sales, delivery, operations) it's not a win. It's a trap. Growth without the right foundation only amplifies existing problems, leading to burnout and instability.

Instead, founders should focus on metrics that actually matter: profitability, time freedom, and operational efficiency. When those are in place, revenue growth becomes a natural byproduct. Building a scalable agency isn't about stacking more clients but about building systems that support sustainable growth.

Founder Evolution From Operator to Owner

It's been a prevalent idea this year but agency owners should understand that growth isn't just about scaling the business. It's about transforming yourself as a leader. Darby explains that this is less about "growth" and more about "evolution," where each stage requires you to become something fundamentally different.

This progression can be outlined as follows:

Operator – You do everything.

Manager – You delegate tasks but still make all decisions.

Architect – You build systems and empower others to decide.

CEO – You set vision, coach leaders, and represent the brand.

Owner – The business runs without you.

Many founders get stuck in the operator or manager stage because they don't know what the next level looks like. Without that clarity, they default to guesswork, making changes that don't move the needle.

The breakthrough comes from understanding your current role and intentionally evolving into the next. This requires letting go of old responsibilities and stepping into new ones, even when it feels uncomfortable.

AI Is a Tool, Not a Strategy

AI is one of the biggest sources of both excitement and overwhelm for agencies right now. While many teams are experimenting with tools like custom GPTs, most are only scratching the surface, using AI for basic tasks like brainstorming or content generation.

The real opportunity lies in going deeper. AI should enhance your capabilities, not replace them. Agencies that use AI strategically can create "superpowers" for their teams by automating repetitive tasks, improving efficiency, and freeing up time for high-impact work.

However, there's also a growing issue of AI fatigue. With new tools emerging constantly, it's easy to feel overwhelmed and unsure where to focus. The solution isn't to chase every new tool but to build a solid foundation for how AI fits into your workflows and operations.

Stop Hiring for Problems You Don't Understand

A common mistake agency founders make is trying to "solve everything" by hiring a senior leader—like a Director of Operations or COO—too early. While it might seem like the logical next step, it often leads to frustration and wasted resources.

The problem is simple: you can't hire someone to solve problems you don't fully understand. Without clear systems, processes, and direction, even the most experienced hire will struggle to make an impact.

Instead, start smaller. Audit your time, identify low-value tasks, and begin delegating those first. Freeing up your time allows you to focus on higher-level thinking, eventually leading to the clarity needed to make smarter hires.