Platforming Controversial Voices and Intentions

In this Based Camp episode, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive deep into Tucker Carlson’s recent controversial takes — from praising Sharia-governed societies and Middle Eastern cities over declining Western ones, to his glowing comments on Moscow, Dubai, and even Venezuela under Maduro. They explore whether Tucker’s shift stems from boomer goggles, elite social circles, agreeableness and exposure to foreign elites, a quest for controversy/views, or something more concerning like foreign influence incentives.

The Collins also contrast Tucker with Candace Owens’ more unhinged conspiracies and dissect Nick Fuentes‘ coherent (but hostile) agenda, revealing why he’s a bigger threat to mainstream MAGA/America First conservatism than many realize. Expect sharp analysis on urban monoculture vs. traditional Western values, the illusion of “diversity” in places like Dubai, why Tucker seems unable to distinguish the urban monoculture from broader Western civilization, and what this means for the right in the era of the Iran conflict and beyond.

If you’ve been confused by Tucker’s evolution from sharp conservative thinker to sounding “off his rocker,” this episode models his worldview and offers a grounded, pro-civilization counterpoint. Subscribe for more unfiltered cultural anthropology and future-oriented takes.

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be discussing the increasing craziness that’s coming from Tucker Carlson, which I find really fascinating because if you look at the leading voices on the right that are mad about the war in Iran some are just like, you could see our episode on Candace Owens psychosis.

Maxing was Candace Owens, but like, she’s just like a crazy person, right? Like just an actual crazy person.

Speaker 2: one you were telling me this morning and I was like, what the, she thought that Charlie Kirk was trained at a school like for gifted children, like in the X-Men with special telepathic power.

Well, first, the

Speaker: first thing that like really caught my attention was that she, she claimed that Charlie Kirk was a time traveler based on basically a, a joking flirty text that he sent to her where she texted him, I’m an alien frowny face. And he responded, I think I’m a time traveler. This is my home, but I think you found [00:01:00] me.

And time traveled with me. And she took that and just ran with it.

Malcolm Collins: So that’s, that’s an example of one like just not, not like normal conspiracy theories, like, just like actual crazy town stuff.

And then you have people like Nick Fuentes. Right. But Nick Fuentes has his own agenda, and we’ll go into him more later in this because

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: I’m glad. Interestingly, I used to believe about Nick Fuentes that he was just sort of a shock jock who was choosing whatever was the most shocking thing to say.

Simone Collins: And you

Malcolm Collins: don’t anymore. No, I think the war has elucidated his actual coherent agenda. Ooh. More clearly than it was historically. And that has been very interesting to me. ‘cause then I’m like, oh, now I get what he’s actually attempting to do. And it is, it, it, what it means is that he is more of a direct enemy of any mainstream maga America first conservative than I originally realized.

Simone Collins: Really? Oh,

Malcolm Collins: okay. Because I, I just didn’t get it before and now. And what I’ve realized, he [00:02:00] tells you and his audience what his real goals are. He just leaves out a few steps in between. But. To the next point. Tucker’s different. Tucker is somebody who seems to be broadly saying he is somebody who I really enjoyed and watched his content historically, right?

Like, and

Simone Collins: he’s been around for a long time. Like this is one of a, one of those lifetime media figures that at least if you’re a millennial in the United States, has just been part of the media landscape, right?

Malcolm Collins: The end of his run with Fox, which by the way, people may not know this, Colin’s family lore. But we were supposed to be on his show.

We were in talks with his booking team. I forgot about that the last Friday that he held the show. But because it was his last show, they changed the scheduling. And that was brought on him all of a sudden out of nowhere. But we were in talks with his booking team which is really sad because we have never been able to get back in talks with him after that, like the team split up.

But anyway, during that period, he was, I think, sort of like the [00:03:00] key intellectual based voice. I like the leading thinker in that degree. This was in the, like it was post Jordan Peterson at that period. And he had really, I think, sharp and interesting takes. So I hear some of his takes now. And.

I just am trying to model how he came to an understanding of reality that is so divergent from anything that, that I believe when I, when I saw him before and I, I, I think I’ve come to it Simone helped me by being like, you need to remember, he’s a boomer. Okay. He’s seen the world through boomer goggles.

He’s not gonna see the world the way you do. But my favorite, and this is one, one of the quotes that really inspired this for me was there’s been multiple quotes from him recently. A lot of people have heard the one, he said, any Middle Eastern city is better than any American City know.

Speaker 6: And I travel so much that I see it. There’s not a single Western city [00:04:00] that’s thriving and they’re all degrading in exactly the same way. There’s a lot of it just a moral decay or is it actually true from everything? It’s self, it’s a lot of things, but it’s self hatred. Every city. It’s crazy. Every European city, every American city. So you and, and you I notice it because I travel outside the western world, the white world. I’ll just be honest. The white world, right. I travel a lot in the Middle East. It’s amazing. Mm-hmm. And it’s incredible to be in a place that has pride in itself, that believes in its religion and culture that thinks we’re on, we’re onto something and this is great. Look at what we’re doing. We’re really proud of this.

Malcolm Collins: But he, he also had one where he was talking about how a, a Moscow was better than American cities.

Speaker 9: What was radicalizing very shocking and very disturbing for me was the city of Moscow where I’d never been the biggest city in Europe. 13 million people, and it is so much nicer than any city in my country. I had no idea. It is so much cleaner and safer and prettier.

Aesthetically, than any country city in the United [00:05:00] States that you have to, and this is non ideological.

Simone Collins: Well that was it, but that was a separate stage. Like there are these various. Points in recent history where Tucker Carlson has done something that makes him seem like a foreign agent, like going to Moscow and, and walking through the grocery stores and being like, oh my gosh, this is so much better than America.

And now he’s just doing it with Middle East. This is like Middle East edition.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So first of all, a lot of people are like, oh, he can’t be a foreign agent because he’s super rich, which is not true. It is true that his stepmother owned a, a family fortune from some food production company that was bought by Campbell like 40 years ago.

Mm-hmm. But not anymore. Like the, the, the money from what we can tell from records didn’t pass to him. Mm-hmm. So he actually might be up for money. And if you look at the amount of money he has, it’s that sweet spot that comes from it’s estimated around 50 million, which is that sweet spot of like, I’m taking bribes, but I’m not stupidly wealthy from the bribes.

That bribes don’t make sense anymore. So that, wait,

Simone Collins: you think. [00:06:00] Well wait, you’re, you’re trying to argue that someone with $50 million feels like they need more money?

Malcolm Collins: 50 million is the amount of money I typically expect an extremely corrupt person to be. If I was a corrupt official in the Middle East, I would expect them to have around $50 million.

If I was a corrupt Russian, I’d expect them to have, earn $50 million. If I was somebody taking, it’s the amount that you can earn from bribes. Oh, where you still want more bribes. Like if he had like a billion dollars, I wouldn’t think that Russia or a Qatar could bribe him. I, I

Simone Collins: also, I think maybe there’s the point to be made too, that wealthy people aren’t above loving a good deal or free things.

In fact, many people who have worked for high net worth individuals have commented that there is no one more like. What’s the word? Miserly. Miserly. Yeah. No one more miserly than really rich people who are like, well, I’m not gonna pay it.

Like, $2 and 50 cents is a [00:07:00] convenience fee for this. You need to walk five blocks to, you know, that kind of thing.

Malcolm Collins: Well, the, the, the point being he, he’s, he’s gone pretty far and put a lot of effort into debasing himself. It, it seems that there’s some motivation for this, and that’s what I want to dig into.

No.

Simone Collins: Okay. Just immediate counterpoint. What if saying these things and garnering the controversy, which we are now participating in, drives views, which is to his benefit, whether or not it’s, it’s money or attention? You know, sometimes wealthy people just really want attention and he’s certainly getting it by dealing these takes out.

Malcolm Collins: Well, at least historically that didn’t seem to be his strategy, which you could say is maybe post Fox. He’s tried to move to a just anything for attention strategy

Simone Collins: mind. He’s also interviewing people like Nick Fuentes, which again is garnering a lot of controversy and people really came at him for.

You know, according to them, platforming this terrible person who should not be getting any more attention. So he’s done things that have that, that would be concurrent with a [00:08:00] strategy to get views based on controversy

Malcolm Collins: there. Yeah. But there’s a difference between controversy and making yourself look stupid.

And some of the stuff that he’s done recently just looks stupid. So, an example. And we’ll go into it in a bit. It, it were his like Dubai comments about how perfect Dubai is and how everything in Dubai is great and why can’t America be more like Dubai? And I was telling, I was like going to Dubai and thinking that it’s like this beautiful, perfect place is a bit like going to Disney World and coming back and being like, oh my God, you wouldn’t believe it.

I saw the. Elsa, she was just standing in the road hugging children. She’s the most amazing person. Everything. And, and the

Simone Collins: God forbid she’d actually be governing over her country. At least that’s concurrent with the, the lore.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The parallels are really actually strong here because people don’t know.

Disney World has plain clothes agents all over the street, like watching to make sure that like nobody’s throwing a fit or being unhappy, and you’ll be like arrested and removed from the park if you are. And Dubai works on a very similar system out outside of like [00:09:00] all the slavery and everything that makes the, the, the Emirates work.

With 80% of the people there are not being citizens and having to live by very different laws and having a very two-tiered system between Emiratis and non Emiratis. But even

Simone Collins: actually like influencers there have spoken very openly about their experience with the authorities regulating what influencers are allowed to say.

I saw one clip where an influencer was talking about. Actually being taken in to talk with these people who didn’t arrest him or detain him, they just brought him in and he commented on how young and attractive they were and a no, we

Malcolm Collins: were joking that, like when she first told me this, I, I was like, oh my God.

One really good way to handle it, to have like really attractive looking like blinged out like Emirates. But then because, because Emirates if, if they are working in a position like that bureaucratic positions, they often have quite a lot of wealth. So you would expect them to have like their designer brands walking in like a group with like a bone box and like very Zoolander to [00:10:00] come and arrest

Simone Collins: Moto.

It’s basically Mo Gotto.

Aren’t you afraid the fashion police will come and meet you with their fabulous batons?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, basically let’s

Simone Collins: talk now. It’s, it’s exactly that. I just love it so much.

Malcolm Collins: I’m doing like poses in the background while like they’re explaining to the influencer, like,

Simone Collins: yes, exactly. Like it, it’s a very zoolander kind of situation where everything’s just kind of pretend ridiculous world and everything’s kind of on the surface because I, I’ve also looked at some of the the types of properties and areas that people are encountering when in Dubai, and it’s very much that like manufactured luxury where if you come from a disadvantaged background and you may not be familiar with.

I don’t know. Historical luxury. You think it’s nice. But it’s, it’s often very thin. And not a lot of actual thought [00:11:00] or even good design has gone into it. And obviously there’s some areas of buildings and, and stuff in Dubai with really, really good construction, excellent fixtures and everything.

But I think there’s a lot of it that just is, is, fake luxury in the way. Like, you know, a, a butterfly might have a, a face on its wings, and like all these people like, see you. They’re like, oh, a face. A face. It’s a face. And it’s not, no, it, it has been designed to make you believe that for a specific strategic reason.

Malcolm Collins: Dubai is actually for people who haven’t been to Dubai.

Simone Collins: Have you been, did

Malcolm Collins: you go on that? Yeah, of course. Been to Dubai. Yeah, Dubai is, is, it really sort of reminds me of a giant mall with extra high ceilings everywhere you go and like way too much marble. But it doesn’t feel like that’s nice.

It has that second world, anyone who’s ever lived in a second world country where like all the foods just like a little off and you can’t get the highest quality anything and everything feels a little like construction problem, stuff like this. Dubai has a similar vibe to it but, but very [00:12:00] wealthy and more polished.

And also it’s stupidly hot. Like everything is stupidly hot. But anyway. I wanna go into his actual quotes here and we can dissect what he might be getting at. Okay. So the first one that really got me was there’s not a single Western city that’s thriving. They’re all immoral and physical decay because of self-hatred and a lost will to live.

What’s fascinating is even in this attack on the west here, um mm-hmm. He is driving more. There are ways to say that the urban monoculture is a problem without being self hating, westerner. And yet he is saying I am a self hating westerner because the west is failing and self hating. Right? I’m like, you don’t need to drive the very thing that you say that you are against.

Right? There’s, there’s ways to attack you know, progressive tendencies, urban monoculture tendencies while saying that this isn’t true of all layers of Western society, certainly not the layers that we’re attempting to save. But then he goes on to say [00:13:00] things like, Sharia law has made Islamic countries more advanced in the West,

and I travel a lot in the Middle East.

It’s amazing. The Muslim country is governed by Sharia law and you go there and it’s incredible to be in a place that has pride in itself, that believes in its religion and culture that thinks we’re onto something that kind of self-confident is what creates stability and hospitality. And in a place like Dubai, which is basically, it’s a luxury brand, basically people go to Dubai because it’s beautiful, rich and clean, and above all because it’s safe.

And it’s got the busiest airport in the world. And he goes, you start seeing a video on Instagram of smoke in the Dubai airport and you’re like, I think I’m going to Cabo this year. Oh, sorry, drug cartels, whatever. Maybe I’ll go to Sedna this year. Implying a preference shift away from the United States.

And then he goes on to say, anyone who likes decency in order and cleanliness is hoping the Gulf will recover. The Gulf is not a threat to us. These are some of our closest allies. So, huge [00:14:00] notes we need to add to a lot of the stuff he’s saying here. First really weird that he notes that all, like all countries under Sharia law or he is implying, are much cleaner and nicer than American cities.

There are a handful of places where you could plausibly make this argument. Some cities in Dubai, Qatar a few in Saudi Arabia but the vast minority, the vast majority of countries under Sharia law are. Like some of the biggest on earth. If, if, and this is weird to me, like, has he not been like anywhere else in the Middle East?

Has he not been anywhere in North Africa? Like I’m, I’m actually, has he never even been to like Egypt? Like that’s an Egypt, Morocco, like anywhere, right?

Like these are, Palestine is another example of this. These places. There is like, literally, I don’t think I, I think if you go to some of the worst neighborhoods [00:15:00] in the United States they would be about equivalent to neighborhoods at the top 10% in most of these other countries.

Now, no, no, here, I’m not saying the top 1% because there’s some extremely wealthy people in these countries. But I think around the top 10% would be equivalent with like a, a, a dangerous, like a strawberry mansion in Philadelphia or something like that. An example of this in Egypt, they did a poll on what percent of women were essayed.

Do you know what percent of Egyptian women have been a,

Simone Collins: I mean, how are they defining it?

Malcolm Collins: I, I don’t remember. No, it it by the way. Yeah.

Simone Collins: But like, okay. What, like

Malcolm Collins: 2099 or 98%?

Basically all women in Egypt have been sexually assaulted.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: But this is not, this is, this is what I mean when people are like, oh, it’s really, it’s not really that dangerous to be in Egypt.

It’s like, no, it really is. And this is, this is one of those things is this is just like an anti-real statement. [00:16:00] The second anti-real statement, and I mean he must know this, he’s an educated person, is that the countries in the Gulf right now are the countries that are promoting us finishing this war most aggressively.

Specifically. Because if we don’t finish the war this is the thing that gets me, okay. We don’t finish the war. We let Iran just control the strait of Mout. They continue blocking it. Economically we find out China is, is is the main global power. Who’s hurt by that? But who is the biggest regional power?

Who’s hurt by that? It’s Qatar. That is classically one of our biggest enemies in the, in the region and one of Iran’s biggest friends and people who are like, oh no, Iran is selectively letting ships too. Like two a day on average, not at a meaningful rate. And they charged them like $2 million to, to get through.

So they’re not even like economically that viable. This is, this is what it’s been offering China to try to get Chinese ship through. The the point being is this is a war that we, and it [00:17:00] makes sense why Saudi Arabia wants us to finish this and, and the UAE and Qatar wants us to finish it if we don’t finish it.

Even Saudi Arabia ships a lot of its oil through the straight of like they’re not as isn’t MM or something. Yeah. I, I don’t know. The UAE does Qatar definitely does, like the UAE might be able to like, because they’re sort of down near the bottom of it. Yeah. Find some sort of solution to this.

But Qatar definitely can’t. Hmm. So he’s saying stuff like this and I’m like. Okay, what’s, what’s going on? So then I wanna go into other things he said and see if I can piece together a coherent world ideology. Like why is he cheering for Korea law?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well also because even in his typical recording studio, you know, all his branding is, is Christian American dad, man, right?

Like, that’s kind of what he’s going for with the vest and everything. Like I just, and the, the white button down, [00:18:00] I, it’s just so odd to me that he would be saying all this very non Christian, I mean, he even talks about it when he’s like, oh, you know, I’m, I’m a Christian man, but you know, these people aren’t, you know, making me convert my religion.

They’re fine with me. They, you know, I tell them that I believe in Jesus and they’re like, good for you. And

Malcolm Collins: yeah,

Simone Collins: like he, he’s keeping the branding. It just, it just surprises me that therefore he’s so anti. America for that reason. And I, I’m sure he would take exception to being accused of being anti-American.

He would probably push back and be like, no, I believe in America. I want an America where people are proud of themselves, who are proud to be who they are. Because in a clip that I watched recently, he was talking not just about the Middle East, but how like when you go to Japan, everyone’s so proud about, you know, who they are and confident in themselves.

And I think maybe what he’s alluding to here is, is this urban monoculture associated self hatred. That he’s just so sick of that now at this [00:19:00] point. Anything that’s not that looks good.

Malcolm Collins: Well, so in his explicit quote where he was talking about Qatar, and he’s like, and look, Qatar is so diverse, like he wants America to be more diverse.

And he goes, but in America, like we say, we want diversity, but then we move away when too many black people move into our neighborhoods and stuff like that.

Speaker 6: Those people are happy. They’re welcoming of others. They’re tolerant of diversity. Like we always tolerant of diversity. There’s none of that here. Are you kidding? All the whites. Oh, we love black people. Then they run and move to Bozeman. ‘cause they’re no black people

Speaker 8: Absolutely. Send their kid to the,

Speaker 6: they hate diversity,

Speaker 8: they hate it.

Speaker 6: And it, our version of it isn’t working at all. No. Like at all. So, but you go to a country like Japan or the Emirates or Qatar or Saudi Arabia and you see that, that when people are self-confident, when they’re really pleased with what they’re doing and they believe that their system is the right system, that self-confidence results in a kind of.

Welcoming [00:20:00] attitude. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 8: They’re Muslims. It’s a country

Speaker 6: governed by Sharia law.

Speaker 8: Right.

Speaker 6: I mean, and they’re like, that’s great.

Speaker 8: Good for you. Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: Like promoting more, integration in the United States where I should point out, by the way, if you’re familiar with the way places like Dubai are actually handled, they have giant, incredibly segregated ghettos where they keep their workforces of mostly Indians and, and some Africans.

And that where the cities look diverse, all you’re seeing is ultra rich people from all over the world who have escaped with their country’s money. That’s typically why you end up in Dubai if you were a corrupt leader in part of Africa, or you were a corrupt leader. And so of course that’s gonna, you know, in East Asia that’s gonna look very diverse on the surface.

If you take the most corrupt people from all over the world, they’re gonna be able to interact with each other plainly. Like they’re gonna get idiot to steal from each other or anything like this. And you basically keep everyone else in a, in a open air prison that’s gonna look really nice on face value.

But that’s not actual diversity. Right. [00:21:00] Nobody. Like when you, when you, you’re at Harvard, right? And you are going to like your student club and a bunch of black people show up. You don’t think you’re about to get jumped by them, right? You, no. Harvard student is like, oh, oh, a bunch of but the same student you know, in, in a different context, may walking alone at night on the street, walk to the other side of the road.

And that’s because those are two different populations that you’re dealing with, right? And every sane person is aware that there is a difference between you know, random African immigrants, African and super wealthy people who have escaped their country to live in Dubai. But I found that interesting that he’s still pushing this like boomer narrative of like.

The, the ultra integrated iteration of America where even I would say a America can work with different populations while having regional ghettos. Like I do not think we need to force integrate [00:22:00] people of different racial groups or even create cultural pressure to do that. Like, it’s okay if people want to live predominantly around people who are like themselves.

And, and we shouldn’t, you know, the, the Tucker’s creating this kind of shame. So before I go further with this, I’ll just explain where I think he’s getting that perspective from. I think he has this boomer idea of America as like. A, a true melting pot and like diversity is actually our strengths.

And that he’s still attempting to push that mindset of which, which basically no mainstream youth conservative agrees with. And I think that like, like even people like us where I’m like, look. You do get some value from diversity. Like I don’t want a meal that’s just one food, right? Like one ingredient, but a meal isn’t better because you added more ingredients.

And there are some ingredients that just don’t go together and shouldn’t be on the same plate. And I think that that’s the way we need to treat our [00:23:00] country in immigration and diversity is to realize that different groups are actually different and that some of them are going to have a higher probability of integrating and becoming good American citizens.

And even of the traditional American cultural groups, they interact with each other in unique ways and they shouldn’t be forced to integrate. But. That’s I think what many modern, like center conservatives think, which is not what he thinks he wants to go back to, to boomer vision of a, of American patriotism.

But then he says stuff like this what was radicalizing and very shocking, this is during his tour of Moscow. It was very disturbing for me. It was the city of Moscow, the biggest city in Europe with 13 million people. It’s so much nicer than any city in my country. It’s so much cleaner, safer, prettier, aesthetically its architecture, its food, its service than any city in the United States.

And then specifically on the Moscow subway specifically, he said it’s nicer than in our country. No graffiti, no smells, no drug addicts. So note here, the Moscow [00:24:00] subway is genuinely really nice, but that’s because of a holdover of communism where they wanted to make the subway look really nice ‘cause they thought that that like made everything look nice.

But Moscow itself is. One of the worst, like most dangerous cities in all of Europe. Like one of the most gangstery.

Simone Collins: How so? Just in terms of crime stats or what?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, crime run Downness falling. Apartness. Like bleakness.

Speaker 13: A nice cafe you probably can ask for. Ah, mat tea. Someone’s drying out their shoes. Pillow. I don’t know what’s going on here. I.

Malcolm Collins: Like, and, and this is even the thing, if he had said those same things but he was touring St.

Petersburg, I’d be like, oh yeah, but that’s just St. Petersburg. You should go to Moscow and see how bad it can be. But Moscow’s not like you. There is like a [00:25:00] four block area of Moscow that it’s like reasonably like, you know, like rich parties and then you get outside of that. And Moscow is like I know I’ve actively from like my friends who, who travel a lot I was thinking about going to Moscow once and they were like because.

One of, one of my good friends worked in Moscow for a while in like, terrorism related stuff. And she was like, bro, you do not want to go to Moscow. And this was, you know who I’m talking about, Simone? Yeah. She goes, you do not,

Simone Collins: I’m big fan of St. Petersburg and I think you’ve been to St. Petersburg.

Malcolm Collins: She’s like, go to St. Petersburg. And I’m like, I’ve been to St. Petersburg, it’s great. But she’s like, Moscow is not St. Petersburg. Do not think you’re gonna get the St. Petersburg experience from Moscow.

Simone Collins: So is it, is it like Edinburgh, Glasgow kind of thing or what?

Malcolm Collins: No, no. Well, no, Glasgow gets a worse reputation than it actually is.

Glasgow’s mostly fine in the, in the historic parts. I, I might call it one of my favorite cities actually. It’s a, it’s a fine city. Moss now there are [00:26:00] district,

Simone Collins: no, but that’s the point is, is maybe Moscow also is mostly really cool, especially, it just has less.

Malcolm Collins: Moscow is more like a state capital you know, one of those cities that really just exists for administration.

It’s like the bureaucracy. Oh,

Simone Collins: kinda like just bureaucracy. I don’t actually, no, because a lot of people live there. I think I follow some influencers who live there and talk about,

Malcolm Collins: no, they’re very populated city, but it’s a city. Yeah. That basically became artificially populated during communism as sort of the, the, the bureaucratic hive at the center of all bureaucratic hives.

Um mm-hmm. If you’ve ever been to a, a state capital city, like, you know, the one in Pennsylvania, what, what’s it called again? What’s the Pennsylvania,

Simone Collins: Harrisburg.

Malcolm Collins: Harrisburg, or what’s the state capital of California.

Simone Collins: Sacramento.

Malcolm Collins: Sacramento. Do you know what, like Harrisburg and Sacramento.

Simone Collins: Great train museum.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Have that sort of vibe to them of like the most soulless of soulless cities. Yeah. And like, everything’s kind of slummy, everything’s kind of dirty. And they’re cities that are really only there. [00:27:00] They’re quite populated, but they’re only there like, because that’s where the organizational administration is.

Um mm-hmm. Moscow has a very similar vibe, but like dialed up to a hundred.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: So it’s not, I I don’t think he could get this takeaway if he was like being, so that’s where I get like the Moscow one being fooled by Dubai. I can see some whi list boomer, but I don’t, sorry, whi list. Boomer fooled by Dubai.

I can’t see anyone unless they had a handler the entire time, which he may, he, he, like, I’m

Simone Collins: sure you, you must have, I think just the, the visa situation, going to Russia I think is fairly, I.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe that’s it. Complicated. Maybe, maybe. The reason he had this view on Moscow is he’s like a very when something fits his preexisting worldview, he has this very uncritical eye to it.

And so he goes around and he’s like,

Simone Collins: yeah, I do. I think he’s, he is very trusting. He comes across as very trusting. This is, you know, how his Nick Fuentes interview went. You know, he [00:28:00] tries to be empathetic, and I think this is one of the the reasons why his interviews go really well is he’s, he’s not just kind of abrasive and confrontational and not actually listening to people like he’ll.

He’ll express his doubts with people, but in a very respectful way when he is talking with them. And I think he’s a more agreeable personality. Like he doesn’t, he’s not intentionally or euphoric, disagreeable, like some media figures. And I think that maybe that leads him when he’s traveling in foreign nations to kind of just, yes, and any, we’ll say propaganda or student, oh, I’m

Malcolm Collins: putting something together.

Well, this could also explain why he has such a negative view of the United States which is if you grew up with that sort of boomer. Idea of America where, you know, forced integration is like a, a obvious and net good. Um mm-hmm. That a lot of people who grew up in that generation think it’s like sort of cool to, and that they have full permission being [00:29:00] American to be down on America in an an American culture.

And that, that’s almost sort of like a positive thing. Like it’s a very leftist thing to do. But some conservatives that have been around like wealthy circles for long enough and, and, and had to code switch into that enough may have accidentally integrated that with their world perspective. And so he goes to other places and to try to be hospitable because he is got the really nice handler and stuff like that.

He ends up saying things like that, like, this is nicer than anywhere I’ve seen in America these days. You know? And then he ends up integrating that belief. I. Both complaining about a problem, but also being one of the chief sort of distributors of the problem that he’s complaining about, but being unable to see that because he’s just trying to be nice in the moment and not having

Simone Collins: agreeable and conformist broadly.

Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That

Simone Collins: okay. Okay. Yeah, no, no, no. So, so, so basically you’re saying like he is he’ll pick up the temperature or, or, or, or vibe of a room and then just project it. And so when he’s in [00:30:00] America and everyone’s just around, like on average, especially people sort of in the media and online are very negative about America.

So he just picks up on that and projects it. And then he goes to other countries. And in other countries he meets with minders and leaders who are obviously very bullish on those countries. And then he is getting the most propaganda highlighted version. He’s actually more than picking up on that and saying.

Malcolm Collins: The part of American society that is most anti-America and most negative about America are wealthy. Mm-hmm. Elite Americans. These are people in elite institutions. These are people in elite positions. That the group that he has disproportionately in socializing ways. However, the people who are most pro

Simone Collins: well, and especially, ooh, ooh, Malcolm, keep in mind I think also the old guard of conservatives, which is definitely what he’s coming from instead of the New tech.

Right. Is definitely of, of that more like negative.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Every, every techno [00:31:00] optimist or optimistic, patriotic, conservative, I’m aware of now is more on the new tech Right. End of the spectrum.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Whereas

Simone Collins: the, it’s also about this flavor of conservatism.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the, the if you go to Russia or Dubai the ultra wealthy individuals are actually genuinely pretty dingo jingoistic.

Yes. If you’re ultra wealthy in Russia, you’re likely making money off of state corruption, right? And so that means that you want Putin and the current regime to stay in power. You are pro this war, you are pro. It’s the same with Dubai or Qatar. If you don’t make a point of trying to get to know average people on the ground in Dubai and Qatar and you’re just surrounding with the ultra wealthy people at parties and stuff like that, you’re gonna have this perception that everybody loves being there.

That explains it. I, I, yes. A complete lack of curiosity about the perspectives of people outside of his class that could explain this without [00:32:00] needing to add any nefarious, like he’s being paid off or anything like that. Other weird things he said that I’m gonna try to like, find explanation for, like what does he, like, how did a sane person actually come to this perspective?

So he had on a Berg recently on his show who is a well-known Israeli communist. And a lot of people thought that was really weird. But the one thing that eh Berg does have is he is very anti Netanyahu very anti-Zionist. And so, I think that that, like, I can understand that you wanna have on opinions of Israelis who have opinions that other people may not have already heard.

So you bring somebody like that onto your show, right? Next he said, not defending the regime, just saying that Venezuela is one of the most conservative countries in north or south or Central America, second only to El Salvador under B bca. It’s possible we’re mad that he doesn’t allow gay marriage, that this is a [00:33:00] distinct possibility, but no one will say it aloud.

The US backed opposition leader who would take Maduro’s plates is of course pretty eager to get gay marriage in Venezuela. So those of you who thought this whole project was global homo, you’re not crazy actually. So this is what he said on Venezuela, right? That Venezuela is actually good. This was under the Maduro regime, and that our plan was to remove him and replace him was the opposition leader to make game.

Now, of course. None of that happened the way he thought. We removed him and replaced him with somebody to release prisoners of war and help us economically and blockade Cuba and beat the communists, not, you know. So, like clearly his world perspective is not predictive of future events or actions.

But what’s he thinking here? Like why, why would he be glazing, like to glaze Iran and Venezuela and like, what’s going on here? Right. I think he sees as his core enemy, the urban monoculture, [00:34:00] but, but he. Cannot differentiate because of its world perspective between the current western society and the urban monoculture.

So because he hates what he calls global homo, or what we would call like a one facet of the urban monoculture he believed that he and he doesn’t have a language for that or words for that. He will then project that onto the west more broadly reflexively. And so when he sees somebody fighting boast the west and against gay people, right, like Venezuela is, he sees them as an ally.

This could also explain his soft position on Iran. It’s like they’re fighting against the west. The west is urban monoculture.

Simone Collins: So it’s almost like he, yeah, he, he intuitively understands that cancer is bad. And therefore like radiation [00:35:00] treatment’s good. And then he’s like, yes, we just need to, we need all the radiation.

But he doesn’t understand that this is like a targeted treatment or something like bad metaphor.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. Because if you, and, and, and this is compounded with, because he never hangs out with middle class people or, or lower class people. If you, if you leave American cities, right, and you go to the suburbs and you go to, you know, like an outdoor movie screening or something like that you will see people flying American flags and grilling and and integrated by the way, like a meaningful context, right?

Like you will see people of many different cultures who are just having fun being American. This is a normal site for, for people like me, like Simone, when you and I go out in where we live, which is outside of Philadelphia, and this is the other area where he’s like, well, American cities are terrible.

And it’s like, well, yes, but if the urban monoculture, [00:36:00] specifically urban monoculture is the problem, it intrinsically congregates in cities if you don’t,

Simone Collins: and he doesn’t even live in the city personally. So I’m also so confused by that. Like he’s,

Malcolm Collins: that’s not like,

Simone Collins: I think he lives up in a, like, remote cabin in Maine, which is

Malcolm Collins: Maine is lovely.

Simone Collins: How can you

Malcolm Collins: be in rural Maine and think that America sucks?

Simone Collins: Yeah. This, this also really confuses me. I’m like, the, what is he seeing that, I mean, if you’re like taking a cab into like the center of New York City, like through Times Square or something and just being like, Ugh, yuck. You know, like this.

It’s gross. There’s trash everywhere. Like, that’s my, my assumption maybe is that like when he goes into a, a major US city, it’s more likely to be San Francisco or Los Angeles or New York. And as you’re driving your Uber through any one of those cities, you’re gonna be pretty disappointed with what you see.

Then you walk into a CVS to pick up some water because you don’t have anything. You’re staying in like a hotel and you, everything’s locked up. Like he would just see [00:37:00] the worst parts of America.

Malcolm Collins: You have a, a boomer mindset. So in his boomer mindset thanks. Amer America is two things, right? Like it’s the, the taste makers, the dominant culture, which he would call western culture uhhuh, we call it monoculture.

And then. Christian culture, which is fighting against that uhhuh. And like those are the two meaningful factions in his mind. Rather than it’s the urban monoculture fighting against a large number of alternate cultures that want a the various different Christian cultures, various different, even, even ancestral cultures to the United States.

When we talk about like American cultural anthropology in some of our videos if you. Don’t have that education and you’re not prone to seeing things that way. This worldview can make sense, but now, like why he’s so anti-Trump. So this is like before even the world, wasn’t

Simone Collins: he pro-Trump earlier, doesn’t he say in various,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

And then he goes

Simone Collins: like, videos [00:38:00] Trump is, are good friends. I, I mean like he was invited to the White House. He presumably thinks he’s a friend of Trump. I, I don’t understand.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Yeah, let, like, let’s also talk about that. So, there was this case where he went on his show looking all freaked out saying that the CIA had tapped his phone and was trying to frame him for a crime.

What’s re so a few funny things about this. It turns out that he had a series of meetings was one, I think only two days before the, the main bombing. And so a lot of people were like. Why does he think so? The, the, the, the branch that he thought had tapped his phone would have had taps on pretty much everyone in the Iranian government’s phone.

But they wouldn’t have been tapping the phones of random American citizens which. Means he might have been. And what I suspect happened is he was trying to book maybe with somebody high in Iran, and that’s not a, that’s not a, that doesn’t, that’s not an incriminating thing. And then he had a freak out afterwards.

But what’s humorous about the freak out of the few things there has been talking that we might have been using him [00:39:00] as a counter agent spy, basically feeding him bad information that he would then accidentally feed to Iranians. And given that he appears to be pretty gullible, he may have actually been doing this accidentally I don’t think he would do it intentionally, but I could totally see him doing it accidentally.

And we do know that they felt really secure. They were not even having that meeting in the lower safer levels. They were having it in the mid levels like right after we had threatened them. So, maybe he did actually go and tell them it’s all safe. But

Simone Collins: it would be really hilarious if Tucker Carlson played a key role in the United States, being able to like, successfully eliminate a

Malcolm Collins: random topic.

It would be really funny. But the, the even funnier thing is, is some reporter apparently with a lot of connections and like the NSA and the ccia a did like a deep dive on this, and she goes, no one has any idea what he’s talking about. So it might just be that he thinks he’s being tapped and he’s being paranoid, or he was trying to like run cover, like maybe he was talking with somebody that he thought he could get in trouble for and somebody [00:40:00] warned him and then he had like a panic attack and decided to that, that seems more likely to me.

But one of the things he ended up saying about the government was, this is in 2025. Mind you, the most depressing thing about the United States in 2025 is that we’re led not just by bad people, but by unimpressive dumb, totally non-creative people. This is a deeply sad thing to say. I literally have never been so impressed with the effectiveness of an administration at achieving aims that you think he would care about, like reducing government size, stuff like this.

Agreed. Obviously Trump had to pass that big bill because of. Promises he had already made, but Doge actually did a pretty good job and Trumpet continued to do a good job of shutting down various departments within the government like USAID and stuff like that, that I’m really, really glad people have pointing out.

How many leftist media outlets have crashed and burned after USAID went out And now we’re like, oh my God, was this like all always usaid? You know, like people are [00:41:00] like, this was 50% of Somalia’s economy. And it’s like, why was that, why was aid 50% of Somalia’s economy? Like, that’s a problem man. We, I didn’t sign up to be the Somalian daycare.

Actual Somalia. Right? Like, but like, how could you say that? Like, if you saw the profiles to say that the people who are like working at Doge, like my, my brother being one of them, of course, but then the other people, they were like super geniuses. They were like really cool people. And having some insight into, you know, Simone and I have gone to speak at the White House, meet with people of this administration.

And I have met with previous administrations of the past through other means. I’ve, I’ve never worked with them directly, but I’ve, I’ve met a lot of people who have worked at, because of all of our work with secret societies other administrations no administration has ever impressed me, like this administration.

At a lot of other administrations, I got the, like slimy bureaucrat, lifelong DC person vibe for most of the people I met within this administration. It has consistently been. Cool, young, conservative, or tech bro. And I, and [00:42:00] I think that we see this in the efficiency. I mean, that’s why the Maduro raid went as well as it went.

Yeah. That’s why the Iran campaign is going as well as it’s going. I’ve been so

Simone Collins: impressed. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Is because these organizations and, and some of them, like literally the guy Secretary of the Army right now is an old friend of ours. Dan Driscoll he, he’s a, an old friend of ours, a tech bro, and he runs the Army right now.

Right. Like, and why, why are they doing well? Because they have people like him. What was it that he said when he first took over the army? I really liked some of the

Simone Collins: dude, he said a variety of fantastic things. No, he’s just modernizing it and helping it work better. He is improving so many things.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. About how

Simone Collins: he manages.

Malcolm Collins: What he was really focused on is like, we need to get away from like an army that is staffed based on, you know, political kickbacks to, you know, X manufacturer, y manufacturer. And we need to focus on what the troops actually need to get their jobs done. And the, that, that was the [00:43:00] same was about how they fight.

We had an episode on like the troops. Intentionally pulling their punches. Watch that episode. That was crazy for me to learn that. Like, you couldn’t shoot at a group until you knew they were armed. Like, if somebody tagged a mosque, you can’t shoot them now. Right? Like playing by vampire rules as they put it in that episode, right?

And it’s like, Nope, I closed the door on a residential house. You can’t come in. And they, they’re just like, no, we’re not gonna do that any, why, why were we ever doing this? Right? And somebody’s like, well, it could look bad. And it’s like, I don’t, I guess I don’t care. That much of it ends up looking bad.

And I like that that’s the approach that they’ve been taking to getting this handled. You know, don’t put Americans in harm’s way, but get things handled. You wanna see our, like, why are we in this war episode? We did that a few days ago with our war update. I don’t wanna go over all of the, the facts on the ground about the assassination attempts against Trump, the timeline to nuclear capability which it appears had gotten really, really short.

And. One of the reasons why you can’t have Iran with nukes, which I think [00:44:00] a lot of people don’t get, is they’re like, well, a lot of countries have nukes and they’re, they’re maybe malevolent actors on the world stage, but they’re otherwise fine. Like Russia has nukes, right? And they’re not our friends.

China has nukes and they’re not our friends. Why is Iran having nukes any different from these other organizations having nukes? And I think a lot of people could just see that and not understand with the, like they’re asking the question what’s the word here?

Simone Collins: Rhetorical question.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They’re asking it as like a rhetorical question without actually asking No. Why, and there is an actual answer to that. Why? The reason why Iran is nothing at all, like North Korea or China or Russia, is that Iran’s core tactic in regards to foreign policy to the tune of, I think when we looked it up, it was $4 billion a year is funding terrorist cells in other countries.

That is how Iran operates. Okay. They, they do not make alliances with other [00:45:00] countries in the same way that, that China might or something like that. They predominantly operate by funding terrorist organizations. And when I say terrorist organizations, I mean non-state militias that are basically like giant Islamist gangs.

And these groups have no trouble using something like a nuke on civilians if they ever got ahold of a nuke. Mm-hmm. And that is why Iran can’t have nukes, because Iran having nukes is the same as Hamas and Hezbollah having nukes. Right. And these organizations, you say, well, you know, they certainly wouldn’t, they’re always running attacks on the United States.

Like, what are you talking about? Right. Like, even, even recently, there was a, like a recent what was they? The, the bombing of the where they drove a truck into a synagogue, kindergarten oh yeah. And it was completely bombed out. And, and fortunately no one was killed because good guys was guns.

But his like brother was in [00:46:00] Hezbollah or something. Right. You know, like the, these are like. Actually, like on our doorstep level dangers. Yes. So I, I wanted to go into that for people who do not get, why Iran having a nuuk and people can be like, oh, well these other countries fund terrorist non-state actors.

Not really. North Korea does not really fund terrorist non-state actors in other countries. China doesn’t really fund terrorist non-state actors in other countries. I

Simone Collins: thought Saudi Arabia. Did

Malcolm Collins: Saudi Arabia. Does Saudi Arabia have nukes?

Simone Collins: No,

Malcolm Collins: from my

Simone Collins: understanding,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. Saudi Arabia doesn’t. The UAE does.

But that’s, that’s a core, it’s the video where we talk about the Cold War between Saudi Arabia and the uae. But that’s their core differentiation. Russia, actually doesn’t that often. It’s, it’s very rare for Russia to fund non-state terrorist actors. They typically fund when they’re doing something like this pseudo states.

Mm-hmm. So an example of that would be like transista or like

Simone Collins: trans what?

Malcolm Collins: Cuba Transista is a [00:47:00] breakaway state in Europe that’s still technically living in the Communist Union.

Simone Collins: I’ve never heard of this before.

Malcolm Collins: You should look it up. It’s really interesting. Fun. Yeah. Learning about, because they live with all of the old com Soviet Union stylings and everything like that, and statues and programs.

What,

Simone Collins: okay, I have to look this up. Like how, if I’ve never heard of transista before.

Malcolm Collins: And Russia will sometimes work with non-state actors, but more as like a mercenaries to make money and gain control of resources not in the way that Iran does, which is like maximum chaos strategy,

Simone Collins: Transtria.

Malcolm Collins: I pronounced it wrong.

Simone Collins: Well, officially known as the pre Troian Mulian Republic. And locally as pri nastro is a landlocked breakaway state. My God, you’re right. Internationally recognized as a part of Moldova. Ah, interesting. [00:48:00] That’s just so bizarre.

Okay. Thank you for telling me about that. Sorry. Just,

Malcolm Collins: but if you, if you look at something like transista, even if Transista like somehow got ahold of Anu, right? Sure. And, and note here I’ve said that I do not actually believe that Russia has usable nukes. They have not run a. Nuclear test since before I was born.

Yeah. Over 30 years since their last life,

Simone Collins: nucle. Well, and and the, the last time they, they decided to play tests a lot of their

Malcolm Collins: Soviet era equipment. It all fell apart.

Simone Collins: Guns.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. It fell apart. Disastrously and a nuke. It’s harder to maintain than a truck. So, I do not think any of their nukes are functional.

And for people when we’re wondering, why can I say that with such certainty? I am fairly certain that if they had any functional nukes, they would attest them just to show the world, especially right now with Ukraine war, that we still have functional nukes as like a way of escalation.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I mean, this is why North Korea does it.

No one else is gonna believe them, and I think they [00:49:00] also need to make sure they’re actually working.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: there’s that.

Malcolm Collins: But the fact that the, the Russians don’t do it to me is like proof positive. They don’t have working nukes. But even if they gave Transista, nuke, transista isn’t, they’re not like Hamas or Hezbollah.

They don’t say death to America constantly. They don’t constantly run terrorist orgs in other countries. They’re more of like a, just like an illegitimate state. It’s the same with like Cuba, right? Like. Cuba is not our friend, but they’re not constantly doing terrorist attacks on us. Right. They’re, they’re,

Simone Collins: well, didn’t you say that they are kind of where a lot of Antifa groups

Malcolm Collins: are trained.

Trained or something. Yeah. A lot of is trained in Cuba like the Antifa leadership, so, well, Antifa is bad, but it’s not like Hezbollah or Hamas to compare.

Simone Collins: Sure, yeah. I mean, I, what to a large extent, I think that maybe the way that much of Israel’s leadership views the current conflict in Iran and their participation in it is it’s just an extension of October [00:50:00] 7th, where essentially Iran attacked them because they bankrolled the entire thing.

I mean, it would not have been possible without them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And

Simone Collins: I, and I think it’s important, and the entire message was, we’re going to keep doing this until you don’t exist anymore. And so they’re like, okay. Existential challenge. Understood. They’ve basically neutralized Palestine and so now they’re moving on to the source of the problem, which is Iran.

And if once they have Iran handled, like once Iran can no longer bankroll they’re continued existential threat, they’ll be happy, but they’re not gonna, I wanna point

Malcolm Collins: out and elevate something Simone is saying here, because a lot of conservatives who are pro-war are often a little cued on this point where they think that Israel and us have the same aims in this war, and we very much do not have the same goals in this war.

To Simone’s point for Israel their goal is to economically [00:51:00] destroy Iran. They want to if they could, they would bomb the South Pars oil field. If they could. They would bomb you know, Iran’s oil fields they would bomb car island. They would make it so that Iran could never economically recover because they just want Iran gone at in the most durable way that Iran can be gone as a threat.

Whereas the United States, our goal is to just do as much damage to their military as possible and defang them in regards to nuclear capabilities. And outside of that we don’t really care that much. Trump mentioned regime change early on, but, you know, he mentioned a lot of things, right? I, I don’t, I don’t know if that’s realistic.

Okay, so now what I want to do, well, I’ll, I’ll do it when Simone can rejoin the conversation.

Why it’s important to understand what I was saying about Iran and other sort of non-state [00:52:00] terrorist forces that are constantly running attacks on the west more on Israel than the West. But they constantly are funding terrorist attacks that we see in European countries in the United States our groups led to them are

Speaker 14: And I think people don’t realize how common these are because the news doesn’t report them because it tries to cover up anything that could make you Islamophobic or whatever. But just to give you an idea of just. 2026. Just this year, just these last couple months, there was an attack in Lech Belgium where an improvised explosive device was detonated.

There was an attack in Rotterdam, Netherlands. , There was an attack in Amsterdam, Netherlands on a school there was an attack in Amsterdam, Netherlands. At a commercial center, there was an attack in London, the UK where a number of ambulances were blown up. , There were attacks in Austin, Texas where a shooter opened fire outside a bar killing three and injuring [00:53:00] 14.

, And he wore a T-shirt that said Property of Allah. , There was, , an attack in Michigan where, . They rammed a truck into a daycare, , at, at a, at a synagogue. I don’t know if that makes you not care about it, but yes. , This, this happens all the time. All the time. Okay. We have been consistently under attack by Iran for a long time at this point, but if you listen to mainstream news, you would be unaware of it because of many of these attacks, incompetence.

Malcolm Collins: is I ran.

Is an active aggressor. Like up until this war started with us, Iran saw itself as at war with us and perpetually at war with us. We just weren’t fighting back yet. What this war is, is us finally fighting back to a war that they had actively been operating, but we had been [00:54:00] neutralizing. You can almost sort of think of it like Israel sitting there constantly zapping the missiles being sent at them and saying, well, we’re not at war because the missiles aren’t landing very often.

And that’s what it was, was terrorist attacks on the United States and Iran is, we were at war. We were just zapping most of the terrorist plots like the two assassination attempts on Trump before they ended up in anything meaningful. But you can’t just sit there forever while missiles are being lobbed at you.

And that’s what was functionally happening in the United States with I. So, a finally, and I think we can really wrap up Tucker’s world perspective and something that happened with Alexander Dugan interview that he had in 2024. This was Dugan when talking about Putin. So this is like a pro Putin guy. He goes, putin is a traditional leader who contradicts a global progressive agenda.

Mm-hmm. Given someone with nuclear weapons is standing strong, defending traditional values that you’re going to abolish, I think they have some basis for this Russia phobia [00:55:00] and the hatred of Putin. To which Tucker agreed saying what you’re describing is clearly what’s happening and it’s horrifying.

So essentially what has happened to Tucker because of the circles that he’s around. He has become incapable of distinguishing between Western values and urban monoculture values, and therefore is taking the position of things like Sharia law or Russia against American interests and against Western interests.

Because he can’t see how that’s different from, as he would call it, global homo. And when you understand that, you can understand why he acts so traitorous because in his mind, the west is the enemy because the west is global. Homo, there is not a, a oppressive urban monoculture trying to stamp out true traditional Western values.

The two things are one and the same. [00:56:00]

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay. He just, so he, he’s lost the nuance of it.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: And he, yeah. And I guess he’s also. I don’t wanna say fallen for, but, and I, I’m not also gonna say that Russia’s choice to position itself as the country of traditional values is illegitimate or fake in some way, but it is manufactured.

That doesn’t mean that it’s, it’s fake because that, you know, saying I’m committed to this, is saying I’m committed to this and I respect that. Like that, that’s them saying, these are our values, we’re gonna support them as a government. And they’re standing behind them with a whole bunch of like, media regulations and education things and and whatnot.

But it’s still propaganda. I’m not against propaganda, but it’s still propaganda and he doesn’t seem to recognize that and the role that it’s playing. So.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Well, I also think that, that the whole gay thing really has not that much to do with how good of an ally you are against the urban [00:57:00] monoculture.

The entire gay culture talking point has been largely dropped by the new Right coalition. Like, it, it, it’s not an important hill to die on when you’re trying to protect your culture. And by conceding that point, you can get a lot of useful allies which is why the Trump administration, obviously the famous article of

Trump’s big gay White House about how it is hugely, disproportionately gay and it is disproportionately gay, just like objectively that we have a weekend episode on due to recording issues that happened that day.

If you wanna be a paid subscriber, if you wanna watch it but the point is, is, gays have been a useful part of the new Right coalition. Like it’s a weird boomer talking point, like, Venezuela’s better because they’re anti-gay. There’s a lot of things I care about before I care about anything having to do with gays.

Right. Like what? Yeah.

Simone Collins: That, that is genuinely bizarre. That, that was my first time hearing that Venezuela had rules against

Malcolm Collins: gay marriage. Yeah. People are like, you know, in, in, in Russia, like [00:58:00] being gay is a, a crime and you can’t even promote gay interests. And I’m like, I don’t care. Like what? There are so many bigger fish to fry in the culture war then gay.

Like what? I mean it’s like, what are you doing? Are you fighting like a 1990s style culture war here? And it’s like, oh, he literally is fighting 1990s culture war and he doesn’t understand that the field has changed. Next I wanna go to Fuentes because Fuentes has had some stuff recently that I think has better delineated his real position, and I’ll be tight on this.

He, he has said, I want Iran to win in the United States to lose. Iran is fighting for America more than the America is fighting for itself right now. And Iran is fighting our war, actually. And the only reason Israel isn’t dropping bombs on you is because it’s not your turn yet. To Trump. He said, you are a demonic force.

You are a liar. You are diabolical, you’re a traitor. Now, I note before this election, Trump said multiple times he planned to bomb Iran.

Speaker 16: As [00:59:00] you know, there have been two assassination attempts on my life that we know of possibly do Iran, but we’ve been threatened very directly by Iran, and I think you have to let ‘em know that you do any attacks on former presidents or candidates for president.

Uh, your country gets blown to Smither Eames, as we say.

Malcolm Collins: This is not like a, you weren’t paying attention if you are surprised by this. In fact, he has said that we should bomb Clark Island. As far back as the 1980s Trump said that we should bomb car island.

So he is been thinking about this for a long time. He said this in both of his elections actually, that he wanted to bomb Iran. So it was actually weird that he didn’t bomb Iran the first time. So it’d be like, Trump’s a liar. It’s like, no. He then goes, this is a war of aggression for Israel. But Iran did the October 11th, like what are you talking about?

Right? Like those [01:00:00] were Iran funded non-state actors. Americas will die. Yeah. First of all. So it’s not a war of aggression for Israel, but two, it’s a useful war for the United States. As I’ve said, Iran has been at war with us. They have had no concern. Like one of the interesting things about this war is we haven’t seen, people are like, why haven’t we seen like a bunch of attacks on like American infrastructure around the world after this war started, given the number of non-state actors that I ran been funding?

And the answer is this. Because they were already trying as hard as they could before this. We, we have been an open target. We have just been neutralizing them up until this point. The difference with this war is now we’re fighting back and to frame things in another way. We’ll get to why he does that, because I’m finally beginning to understand, trump’s Iran war is shaping up to be a total catastrophe, by the way. Not true. It’s going quite well not to mention a fundamental betrayal of his movements, principles, and voters.

Israel first means America last. So what you’re really seeing here, like [01:01:00] the more I think about it and I’m trying to understand his perspective, he. Is above all else in his world perspective, anti-Israel and anti Jew that determines every other position he has. And he is fundamentally, totally okay with throwing Americans under the bus, American interests, under the bus, unborn, children under the bus the conservative party under the bus literally anything under the bus if it goes against the interests of Israel.

And this is how he feels unlike all of his key issues. The other group who he really hates are Indian Americans. And this is why despite JD Vance presumably being like his ideal like Catholic presidential candidate, right? But JD Vance is in an interracial marriage. So JD Vance is like a demon in his mind, right?

Mm-hmm. That doesn’t make sense. Has

Simone Collins: he said anything explicitly about his marriage with Usha?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, [01:02:00] yeah. He talks about Usha quite frequently as being like a core proof that JD Vance is not a real, you know, conservative team player. Oh my God. And the fact that he would pay on something otherwise is presumably so ideologically aligned with him.

Even on the American first stuff, if people don’t know, like the rumblings in the White House is JD Vance is quite against the Iranian campaign. And the Iranian campaign is seen as like a victory for the Rubio faction of, of the White House. And, and people have tried to get like JD to come out publicly and say this because these are all the rumors that he’s been grumbling about this.

And first like people are like, do you have a problem with that? Like, no, people should disagree with in an institution, but two, the point I’m making is JD Vance should be Nick Fuentes greatest ally. Right. And what I’ve realized. Nick Fuentes hates his enemies much more, or his perceived enemies much more than he likes his allies or even himself.

And he is willing, and this [01:03:00] shows fundamentally why he hasn’t gotten married, even though it’d be trivially easy for him to get married, why he hasn’t had kids, why he hasn’t. While he does see himself as like a white Catholic besieged by outsiders who needs to protect this white Catholic way of living and expand this white Catholic way of living, he will always and everywhere spend more time and energy and more time and energy among his base and followers attempting to sabotage and tear down the groups he sees as not perfectly aligned with his interests than actually promoting the interest of his own group.

Simone Collins: Well, he also gains a lot more from having flame war with people then.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, no, I mean, it’s easier to you know, complain about, you know, Usha and Vance having interracial kids while not having any white kids of your own. Right. Like it actually is hard to make a relationship work and to have kids and raise [01:04:00] that next generation.

Simone Collins: Well, no, I’m surprised that you think it would be easy for him to find a partner when he spends so much time streaming that it would be pretty difficult for Oh, no, because he

Malcolm Collins: has a pool of people who want to be his partner. There are

Simone Collins: like, yeah, but he’s stated very explicitly that he does not want a wife who like knows, like he really wants an offline.

Why. Right. So, and they’re out there, but you have to be offline to find them. So he’s, there have been of

Malcolm Collins: my life where I tried to come up with excuses for why I wasn’t dating during that stage of my life. And like the, well, there’s no pretty girls at my school. He is defining a woman who definitionally wouldn’t like him.

A woman who wants to be offline and live a private life is not a woman who wants to marry Nick Fuentes. Right. You have

Simone Collins: to. I disagree because, no, there’s this world in which he finds this very offline traditional Catholic girl who wants to, you know, find a respectable husband who she personally just gets along with who has his job and makes his money.

And she basically doesn’t have [01:05:00] any interest in him intellectually or in his work Intellectually. Yeah. She just does the work and has the kids and raises the kids and homeschools the kids with a good Catholic homeschool system. And there are lots of women out there in the offline.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, Simone, hold on.

Really? You actually think if Nick Fuentes wanted that he couldn’t get, that he could already show, he would’ve to

Simone Collins: invest a lot of time in it at the expense of his

Malcolm Collins: stream time? No, this is how he does it. At the end of every stream, he asks his audience, who presumably has sisters, daughters, people at their church who would be very happy to take a chance on a famous dreamer and say, Hey, do any of you know a girl who fits this profile?

If you do, put her in touch with me. If you do, put her in touch with me. Okay.

Simone Collins: Fair point, fair

Malcolm Collins: point.

Simone Collins: Offline, who doesn’t know who I am?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, because he doesn’t wanna do someone, even if he wanted this per, basically, the reason he says that is not [01:06:00] because that’s what he actually wants in a wife, but he is using that to try to create a category of woman that he will never interact with.

So he doesn’t need to explain why he doesn’t actually have a wife. And as he’s pointed out, even himself, when grippers get married, they leave the movement. He’s created a movement that people don’t want to, that’s like not able to self sustain or intergenerationally stay sustain itself because it’s not a movement about actually winning.

It’s a movement about perpetually fighting and in a movement about perpetually fighting. Your enemies matter more, and your enemies losing and stumbling matter more than your allies winning. And that’s why he’s willing to perpetually throw America under the bus so long as it might hurt the Jews. That’s why he’s willing to throw potentially unborn babies under the bus so long as it prevents JD Vance from winning the presidency because he’s in an interracial marriage, or Trump from winning a presidency because Trump picked JD Vance, someone who was in an interracial marriage as a vp, right?

Like mm-hmm. That [01:07:00] is the extent to which he’s willing to self-sabotage because the fight is the point. And that’s what he wakes up every day to do, to fight these enemies, not to advance the interest of his allies. And I really think, think that there are. Few, like worse allies you can have than somebody who would do that because that makes them incredibly dangerous.

Especially when to win in the long run. You’re going to need to ally with the Jews because they are the only high fertility technologically advanced civilization on earth right now. And when the urban monoculture dies you do not want to be on their bad side. They have the ability for power projection E even just from like a self preservation perspective

Simone Collins: oh yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Much less from a power projection perspective, which is what they help the United States do right now. In, in, in situations like Iran. You know, they, they’re actually fighting alongside us who is not Europe, even though Europe is facing terrorist attacks by [01:08:00] groups funded from Iran all the time.

But do, do they? No. Anyway this is. Really helped me understand these groups better and the psychology of these groups better. It’s like a, a, a, a hatred crack. Like you do the thing that feels good, even though, you know, like taking the meth or whatever. It feels good. That’s what the growers are doing.

Mm-hmm. Even though they don’t have kids, they don’t have partners and they’re not really part of the civilizational game and they’ll die out at the same rate. The urban monoculture will die out. They’re not really relevant. And I’ve pointed this out, most of the people in this, this faction, other than Tucker Carlson, who’s like a boomer, indifferent do not have large families, like very few groupers have large families.

This is not an intergenerationally. And the other culture warriors who like get all racist about it, like Anne Coter, she doesn’t have a family. She doesn’t have a husband. She could get married at any time. She’s an attractive woman. Like they care more about. Who they’re fighting against, then their side actually winning.

And so they’re not really relevant. Like you can [01:09:00] partner with them to get votes, but be aware that like if you have these people in your life, they will lead you to toxicity and failing out too. So it’s, I I think useful to not over chew this particular cut. The final point I wanted to make, which was really apparent for me, is only Irene War.

Sometimes I have this view as like, are we being stupid here? Like, because I do hear some loud voices like complaining against it, but then I look at all the other stuff that, the loud voices against it, like Nick and Tucker and Candace Owens are saying, and I’m like, oh, like everything else they’re saying seems pretty crazy.

And then I look at the people who are pro at like Asma Gold or Noor, and I’m like, I pretty much agree with 99% of the stuff they say, like, and they seem to be arguing in much better faith. So I’m pretty sure like, I don’t, I don’t see many sane thinkers out there who are against this is what I’d say.

Simone Collins: Anyway. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Good to chat about this. Simone. I don’t know if this changed your perspective on anything

Simone Collins: you did bring to the, the biggest [01:10:00] differing opinion I have is that Tucker Carlson is taking the approach he’s taking largely because he’s a very agreeable person and empathetic to the people to whom he’s exposed.

And this by the way, is not something that’s unique to him. It even, I think, and this isn’t, I think even admitted by people in the Trump administration, Trump seems to also often be very colored by his most recent conversation with people. Yeah. And you know, like really excited about whatever he was just talking about.

‘Cause he’s a very, like, now oriented, what can I do now, kind of person, and maybe this is more of a boomer thing. So he and Trump may have that in common. But this, because of the nature of his work has led Tucker Carlson by speaking, as you point out with, with primarily. Elites in the US who are bearish on the United States culture, and then elites in other countries who are very bullish on their culture, it’s going to lead him to have this very negative toward the US positive [01:11:00] toward often foreign, an adversary’s attitude.

So that explains a lot. And of course also the nature of his work whereby controversy drives cliques, is going to lead him to talk more with adversaries, to be like, well, let’s hear them out. Let’s see what they have to say. And then he goes and talks to them and is like, oh, wow. Well, they say that their culture is really great and they seem like really nice people.

And so I think their culture is great. And then he know, he goes and has some dinner with elites in New York on his connecting flight back to his small cabin in Maine. Yeah. And they’re all like, oh, the US is horrible. Everything’s terrible. A war in Iran is awful. And he’s like, oh, wow. Yeah. I mean, they’re totally right and we get a great dinner and I, so then, you know, the US is horrible.

And so that’s, that’s what’s going on and it’s all very innocent and it’s, it’s a result of. The nature of his work. Misaligned incentives and, and exposure plus agreeableness and, and a kind of boomer attitude. So, okay. Everything, yeah. This, this, this helps me model better and I appreciate that.

Malcolm Collins: I appreciate you.

I love you. And if you guys wanna check out ai role play or adventure scenarios, that’s all working really well on our [01:12:00] fab these days. Mm-hmm. And we’re working on getting the agent feature up and running

Simone Collins: a lot fun. And in good old fashioned American style. You’re having steak and bread rolls tonight, so enjoy.

I am so

Malcolm Collins: excited.

Simone Collins: Good. I’m glad. I’ll send you a link very shortly ‘cause I didn’t make one yet. One moment.

Speaker 5: I had almost talked myself into believing that he’s actually a good actor. He’s just old and confused. But when I remembered the instance of him saying that Iran surrendering would mean that the US troops would have to get to, I don’t know, whatever, grape, their daughters and women. , And that, that’s what unconditional surrender always means.

Like, ‘cause that’s what we did in Japan, of course. And Germany of course. . That, that’s just like a crazy thing. That’s something you would only say. I mean, he, he’s trying to emphasize what is severe term that is for Trump to be asking. And it is, I think it’s a mistake to ask for unconditional surrender.

, But Trump’s not really [01:13:00] asking for unconditional surrender if you’re actually paying attention to things. This is just, , one negotiating tactic. So, , I. , I framed this as charitably as I possibly could. He is. Why is he saying this? He is, , he, he doesn’t, , he doesn’t want a, a Shari, a Sharia law country.

Toppled, I guess. , And he’s upset that, I mean, it’s, it’s obvious that we don’t have, like huge numbers of Americans’ lives at risk because of this. So I can’t say he’s doing it for that. , It’s probably not about the economy. , I think, I think it’s about, , like, . He’s, he’s in a circle where hating on the war seems normalized to him, and so any argument he can make, even if it’s obviously fallacious, is okay to make.

That’s my best guess on this. I.

Simone Collins: They, they have a built-in ring light.

Malcolm Collins: The new

Simone Collins: MacBook, like the border of my [01:14:00] screen Yeah. Is like a, the border of my screen is just a bright white border to make a ring light effect, which is kind of an interesting trick. I like It is interesting. I mean, I don’t see the effect, I don’t, I don’t know how effective it actually is, but it’s, it’s not bad positioning for a ring light if you’re gonna have one.

And I, the problem is I don’t how to turn it off, so I have to like move, show notes around to make it not weird. Still cool. So whatever,

Malcolm Collins: any comments from the show today?

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. Some, some fun exorcism stories just of like this and that, you know, one person talking about how and this was an Anglican.

Preacher going in to give an old lady, in this case an exorcism. ‘Cause she felt like stuff was weird around her house. And then six months later she asked for another one and like, she kept asking for more exorcisms. And he’s like, well, there’s clearly something [01:15:00] wrong here. Like, what’s the recurring problem?

So he started asking her about like who’s coming and going and what they’re leaving there. And it turned out her daughter was like kind of a Wiccan, spiritualist Crystals kind of person. And we all know Crystals people. And she kept going to the house and being like, oh, the energy’s wrong. I’m gonna leave Crystals everywhere.

And then, and then the issues would come back with this lady. And so the priest was like, okay, stop letting your daughter leave crystals here. Her wicked nonsense as not welcome in your household. And that did the trick. So. People also applauded your your, your pronunciation of Monor. And I love, so my, I feel so alone when you mispronounce things and I chuckle to myself and I wanna have a conspiratorial glance with someone, and it’s such a waste that I can’t, and now that we have this podcast, I can, because I just go to the comments and people are [01:16:00] also chuckling, and then I get to have an asynchronous conspiratorial glance and like wink with them.

And it’s so great. Like, I, it’s not wasted. I just feel like your mispronunciations and the way that you just mutilate other languages is, is this beautiful

Malcolm Collins: Without care, I just don’t care either. I’m not like trying to get it right or something. I get annoyed when people are like, oh, you, you say it this way.

And I’m like, I don’t care. It’s not an American word.

Simone Collins: Well, but yeah, then we, then we discovered that, like when we watched the new season of King of the Hill, that that’s basically just a text and culture thing. And a running joke in King of the Hill because Frank Hill mispronounces foreign words all the time in the same way that Malcolm does.

So it’s, it’s your culture, it’s your heritage, yes. To to, to mince

Malcolm Collins: my heritage.

Simone Collins: Foreign words. Yes,

Malcolm Collins: that’s right.

Speaker 20: Okay. What are you doing? You telling scary stories? Yeah, and, and, and I don’t, when I said [01:17:00] before was once upon a time, dad picked up a car and landed on the ground his car. Like a big car? Yeah. Like this car. Wouldn’t that have been too heavy?

Speaker 21: I was, I was thinking it like, this is dad super strong? Is that how I did it? Yeah. Once upon a time, a ghost slam Dad in the head. Why is that your idea of a scary story? Once a upon time, a ghost slammed dad at his house laws and everything.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe