Ambivalence Toward Trump on and off Air

Author and writer for The New Yorker, Jason Zengerle joins the Chuck ToddCast for a deep dive into his book “Hated By All The Right People” about Tucker Carlson’s rise—and why he’s become the clearest avatar for the unraveling of modern American conservatism. The conversation traces how Carlson’s personal history, elite upbringing paired with outsider grievance, and long-running resentments toward figures like Bill Kristol helped shape a worldview centered on anger, masculinity, and cultural backlash. Though he styles himself as anti-establishment, Tucker remains very much a Washington insider, increasingly influential even after leaving Fox News and emerging as the true heir to Rush Limbaugh, with real political impact on figures like J.D. Vance.

Chuck and Zengerle also explore how Trump subsumed conservatism, why Tucker may be the figure best positioned to keep Trumpism alive after Trump, and how white male grievance now sits at the core of conservative cultural politics. From the Iraq War’s role in Carlson’s ideological shift to his calculated positioning on Israel, media, and elite power, the episode asks what “real America” conservatism even means anymore—and whether there’s any path back for Never Trumpers, institutional Republicans, or business leaders who’ve bent the knee to a movement that no longer resembles the party they once knew.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Jason Zengerle joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:30 Why Tucker Carlson is the avatar for unraveling of conservatism

03:00 Tucker was abandoned by his mother, how did that affect his journey?

03:45 That abandonment shaped his worldview about women

05:00 Tucker’s anger at Bill Kristol is a big part of his evolution

07:00 Kristol has become the stand in for media elites in Tucker’s mind

08:00 Tucker tried to be a younger, cooler version of George Will 

09:00 Carlson is very much a DC insider, but portrays himself as outsider

10:30 Tucker wasn’t a rich kid, but was raised like one

12:30 Tucker & Trump similarly hung with the elite, but felt like outsiders

13:15 Tucker trashed Trump in texts while praising him on the air

14:00 Tucker was more willing to criticize Trump than other Fox hosts

15:30 Tucker wasn’t viewed as a top-tier personality at Fox for years

16:15 Fox News is bigger than the on-air personalities

17:15 Leaving Fox didn’t diminish Tucker’s standing, more influential now

19:00 Tucker is the true heir to Rush Limbaugh

19:45 Tucker was influential in getting J.D. Vance elected in Ohio

20:45 Vance & Tucker are very ideologically aligned

22:00 White male grievance is central to conservative cultural politics

23:45 Tucker believes what he says & has a larger project for America

24:45 Tucker is more Pat Buchanon than Rush Limbaugh

25:30 Iraq war was very influential in changing Tucker’s ideology

26:45 Tucker needled Jewish Neocon Republicans by criticizing Israel

28:30 Tuckers sees party energy is anti-Israel & getting ahead of it

30:15 What is the definition of conservatism in “real America”?

31:15 Conservatism has been subsumed by Trump

32:30 Will conservatism snap back to its prior form after Trump is gone?

35:00 Tucker seems like the figure that could keep Trump’s politics alive

36:45 Tucker says he’s not mad at the Murdochs but he is

38:00 Tucker didn’t agree to be interviewed for the book, why?

40:45 Tucker likes to bash the media, but he’s one of their favorite sources

42:00 Tucker left D.C. after protestors showed up to his house

43:15 Who are the “camps” that will fight for control after Trump?

44:15 Ted Cruz & Rand Paul are the only two non “blood & soil” prominent R’s

45:30 Trump is the least “MAGA” person in the MAGA movement

47:15 Where do the Nikki Haley, John Kasich type voters go?

48:15 Business leaders have bent the knee to Trump

49:15 Who in conservative media world was most willing to talk?

50:30 Tucker doesn’t spend much time talking to people his disagrees with

52:00 Tucker wants to go back to a male & white dominated society

53:15 The Never Trumpers won’t be taking back the party

54:30 What Jason is working on at The New Yorker

57:30 Marco Rubio’s evolution has been fascinating

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