From Neal's Rules to Anne's Voice

Description:Today’s bonus episode is a joy from start to finish. We’re sitting down with treasured friend Anne Lamott—beloved writer, teacher, and spiritual guide—whose voice has shaped how so many of us think about faith, truth, writing, and what it means to be human on the page.

Anne returns to For the Love to talk about her upcoming book, Good Writing, co-written with her husband, journalist and editor Neal Allen. While Neal couldn’t join us today, this conversation is very much about the shared work they created together—a book that isn’t chasing polish or perfection, but clarity, honesty, and respect for the reader.

Good Writing is part craft guide, part philosophy of living. Written in alternating voices, it blends Anne’s signature warmth, humor, and spiritual insight with Neal’s journalistic precision and discipline. Together, they explore what makes sentences work, how voice is formed, why ego gets in the way, and why clarity is not just a stylistic choice—but an act of generosity.

In this intimate and often funny conversation, Jen and Amy talk with Anne about what it was like to co-write a book so closely, what collaboration revealed about trust and restraint, and how writing—at its best—is a relationship. They dig into voice and ego, bad sentences and letting go, rhythm and revision, and why removing what doesn’t serve the sentence can feel like both grief and grace.

But as always with Anne, the conversation goes deeper than craft. This episode explores writing as a way of being in the world—how attention, humility, and courage shape not only our sentences, but our lives. 

If you’ve ever loved Bird by Bird, wrestled with your inner critic, or longed to tell the truth with a little more care—this conversation is for you.

Thought-provoking Quotes:

• “I only have to do today, today.” – Anne Lamott

• “We write because we try to tell the truth. We try to share our experience, strength and hope.” – Anne Lamott

• “Say what you mean. Mean what you say. And don’t say it mean.” – Anne Lamott

Resources Mentioned in This Episode:

• Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4qLZRQR

• Anne Lamott on Faith, Writing, and Radical Self-Love - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/bonus/anne-lamott-on-faith-writing-and-radical-self-love-2/

• Neal Allen - https://www.shapesoftruth.com/

• Good Writing: 36 Ways to Improve Your Sentences by Neal Allen and Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3NMoKNP

• Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/4t7FteL

• Somehow: Thoughts on Love by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/3Z4Nd3r

• Stanley Tucci on the For the Love podcast - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/stanley-tucci-food-memories-and-emotions/

• Amy’s Full of Microplastics and Existential Dread Sweatshirt - https://www.threadless.com/shop/@dinomike/design/full-of-microplastics/womens/sweatshirt

• Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/4rlv3Gz

• Jessica Mitford - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Mitford

• Tyler Merritt - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/

• I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt - https://amzn.to/49N1ms8

• Better Days: Tame Your Inner Critic by Neal Allen - https://amzn.to/3LTEVs9

• A Writing Room - https://awritingroom.com/

Guest’s Links:

Website - https://awritingroom.com/

Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/annelamott/

Twitter - https://x.com/ANNELAMOTT?lang=en

Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/AnneLamott/

Substack - https://annelamott.substack.com/

Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/

Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/

Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker

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