Deontological vs consequentialist frameworks

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive into the juicy scandals rocking the trad wife and trad husband movements. From Sarah Stock’s alleged affair with Elijah Schaeffer (while preaching purity and getting a papal blessing) to Schaeffer’s epic meltdown, we unpack the hypocrisy, grifts, and red flags in conservative influencer circles. We explore why these “moral police” often crash out, cultural differences in sexuality (Catholic vs. Protestant vibes), and tips for spotting authentic people vs. fakers. Plus, our take on why peacocking signals low investment in relationships and how to avoid dead bedrooms or unfaithful partners. If you love drama with a side of cultural analysis, this episode is a must-watch!

Episode Transcript:

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be going over the tire fire that has become the trad wife movement, the trad husband movement recently with some big, big scandals in it that are very entertaining. I, I went into these scandals and I was like, Ooh, this is just so juicy.

You know, you see people being bad and then the bad people get their come up ins and everything falls apart for them, and they go crazy, and you’re just loving every step of it because they were so inauthentic and terrible to begin with. Yeah. And then your, your friends come in the, the, the other weird random conservatives like Milo was inside gossip you know, still, still playing that role.

And then you get even on the, base camp subreddit, one of the posts and I’ll, I’ll I’ll play it, is like showing what trad wives are actually like, and it’s like the, the,’

Speaker: Oh, thank you, brother. God bless you, dude. She’s the [00:01:00] real deal. Men of honor deserve women of virtue. She’s perfect, bro. Ugh, another easy. 600 trad queen’s got to eat so pure bro. Look at her prey hands. Sending 50 worth it. Three roses. She’ll notice me for sure. Where’s your heart, Jake? You’re such a gentleman.

Y’all are such blessings. Back to the garden now. Trad wife cosplay. Every night across living rooms like this, young conservative men embark on a sacred ritual. Sipping their muse. A virtuous bread baking tread. Angel on livestream. Aw. Thank you brothers.

Malcolm Collins: the trad wife influencers are often just really e thoughts that are dressing up like trad wives and manipulating men with fake personas no more than the, the, you know, girl who decides she’s gonna dress up like a goth and like bounce her tatas around to try to get donations, right?

Simone Collins: Like it’s, and that’s what’s so funny is that people seem to think that women who engage in this is this form of very conspicuous signaling are are trad wifes. Like if, if you’re a trad wife, you’re someone who lives in very deep alignment with [00:02:00] their goals and is probably not very online. And someone who invests very heavily in signaling.

Is, is is very much going against what it means to be a trad wife. And we talked about this a little bit in the peacocking episode. The TLDR of it is if someone is signaling or peacocking in a way where they’re really trying to show like, my appearance is expensive and, and, and like I’m trying to catch your attention as a reproductive mate, it’s typically because they expect to invest disproportionately a little in your relationship, in your child rearing.

So you don’t wanna go after someone who’s very made up, who’s peacocking. Yeah. Because you’re not gonna be there for you. The very definition of a tra wife, I mean like functionally, is that a trad wife is someone who really shows up for the marriage. They’re going to be homeschooling the kid, they’re gonna be cooking all the dinners, they’re gonna be doing all the work.

Possibly also while making an income. And I do think that people like Hannah Neman really are bringing everything to the relationship,

Malcolm Collins: but I don’t think that she dressed like a trad wife when he met [00:03:00] her. I don’t think that she put on the trad wife persona when he met her. I think the, what I’ve seen of the women who become good trad wives is that they are not trad wives when their husbands start dating them.

Yeah. They don’t present that way. They don’t act that way. Okay. It’s a persona they pick up later because they want to contribute to the relationship as much as they possibly can.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So let’s get into the drama. Okay.

Okay.

Simone Collins: Yes. Mm.

Malcolm Collins: So Will Secka lived a quiet life rooted in face and political activism until allegations against his wife Sarah Stock pulled him into a viral storm as claims of an affair was Elijah Schaefer spread online.

Minnie began asking who he is and how he became central to this controversy. Sarah Stock and Elijah s Schiffer’s affair allegations have rocked not only turning points USA fans, but also brought her husband will seka into the spotlight. In conservative influencer spaces, image is everything.

Faith, marriage, modesty, and traditional values often form the [00:04:00] backbone of personal branding. That is why the recent controversy surrounding stock now Cska has drawn such intense online attention. Allegations of an affair was conservative. Commentator Elijah Schafer have not only put her reputation under scrutiny, but have also pulled her husband will seka into the spotlight.

He never sought as social media debates, hypocrisy, morality. Many are asking the simpler question. Who is will Seka the man at the center of the storm created by claims about his wife’s past actions. All right, so a whirlwind romance went viral. Sarah Stock and Will SKAs engagement in August, 2025 was widely shared across social media.

Sarah posted pictures of her ring in fields of flowers while speaking about purity, waiting for marriage and traditional courtship. The wedding in January, 2026 gained even more attention when the couple shared photographs from the Vatican after receiving Papal blessing from Pope [00:05:00] Leo the 14th. There’s Latin numbers there dressed in bridal attire.

The images quickly spread online, and here they have a post from Milo where he says, let’s start with Sarah Stock. So he’s releasing private images of messages he had with her

Simone Collins: wait right after she got married.

Malcolm Collins: And so he says if your husband doesn’t know, now is the time. I understand

you won’t see it like this for a long time, but as you can see from above, it is better for everyone that things come out in one burst today instead of metastasizing over weeks. Don’t let him find out from, it’s somebody else. So first, I like that Milo has the chill correct take on this. You, you, you cheated.

Tell your husband now make, make this a thing between you guys and stop this. Right? But no, she wanted to keep cheating is basically what we learned. And if she told him, she wouldn’t be able to. So, and [00:06:00] also Milo was a bro and not releasing all of this until after all of this goes viral, right? Like after it’s all public.

He kept your secret for a long time. So he goes on to say, in February, 2025, Sarah Stock and Elijah Schaeffer began sleeping together. The affair entered on the day she got engaged about six months later. In that time, they experienced multiple pregnancy scares. It’s alleged by one former acquaintance that Sarah got at least one abortion.

Oh my God,

Simone Collins: this

Malcolm Collins: is horrible. I’m telling Catholic sarah captioned one post saying she highly recommended, getting a marriage blessed by the Pope.

At the time, the images were praised as a symbol of devotion and face in hindsight’s. Critics now view the timing of these posts through a very different lens when she’s still sleeping with other other guy. Okay, so a lith chauffeur and Sure. Stocks scandal, all allegation shock. The internet. The controversy erupted after claims circulated online that Sarah had a months long [00:07:00] affair with Eliza Chauffeur, her former boss at RIF tv.

The claims are amplified by Post Michael Opolis. Yeah, her boss.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: how Chad, right.

Simone Collins: Oh.

Malcolm Collins: And the claims were amplified by posts from Milo Gianopoulos, who alleged that their relationship began in early 2025 and overlaps with her courtship of will. He says, Milo says here, I’m in touch with Elijah. I told him to get off the internet for a couple weeks and go to rehab.

It’s better for everyone to just rip the bandaid off. So I’ll share with you over the next few hours the info doing the rounds in private, at least what I’ve been able to confirm. So I’m getting the full images here so we can get the full text here. I’ve seen a dossier, someone put together.

Everything is coming out. My advice is to check yourself into as a facility sooner rather than later. There may be a life for you after this, but it’s going to depend on being totally honest about all the details and it’s going to require sympathy. As far as I [00:08:00] can see, drug addiction is the only card you have left to play.

If I were you, I would go out of my way to be a generous and decent with the wife and kids. This cross filing in other states for divorce is insultingly, childish and stupid. He also, by the way, crashed out on his wife. Observers will be asking, haven’t you put the poor B through enough? The investors don’t matter.

If they met you and still wrote a check that’s on them, I’m sure it’ll be a while before you are ready to start putting your life back together, but when you are, I will be there to help you. I’ve been trying to signal to you for the past year or so to cut off the BS and talk to me. I was hoping everybody could avoid this.

You may wish to be offline for the next week or two. And he goes, what do you mean cease and desisting people right now? But I got my car back, so that’s good. He, Milo then says, are you stupid? And the other guy goes, what do you mean? Wait, I’m just seeing the top of this. Hey man, I’m going through some [00:09:00] tough things.

Can you help me out here? What dossier shot you? A call your tweets. And then Milo says, in response, your tweets have been so erratic and insane. People are asking if you killed your family. There are the dossier being circulated that reveals all the details about the rifs collapse. Your drinking slash substance abuse, the affair with Sarah stock treatment of your wife, sexual habits and perversions, alleged prostitution.

Your wife’s filing for divorce and then your. Filing back in different states so you can make it out that you dumped her. It’s safe to assume everything in your life is about to hit the internet. Starting in at the beginning of my text, now that you know this you won’t take it, but I’m very strong advice is that you get off the internet for two weeks and check into rehab and be very effing nice to your wife.

Whether or not you have a professional future depends on it. Nobody believes this horse. S you’re posting about your car. Either you got away with being manic for a while, but the bill is now due. You are a very poor liar. It is not your forte. You should [00:10:00] find another profession, one in which you tell the truth.

Oh my God, for one, I love Milo being so sane. I mean, it is kind of slimy that he put all of this public, but also, you know, this guy is being an a-hole right now. Like, I do not feel sympathy for him. And you’ll feel less sympathy as the story go. It’s on.

Sarah stock, and now we’re, we’re going to another tweet. This is from Buckaroo Sarah Stock called other women w****s and sluts while she cheated on her fiance multiple times, despite a blessing from the Pope himself and her being a quote unquote Catholic and then allegedly had an abortion due to cheating.

And then they have a, a Nick Fuentes clip of him just being like.

Leaked audio clips and social media threads suggests that Sarah had confessed to the affair privately, while publicly maintaining an image of purity and traditional [00:11:00] values. And this I find the Nick Pointes saying ironic because the, the underground rumors I hear in right wing circles as he sleeps around with women all the time, he just pretends to be celibate.

Which. I think it’s, you know, better than the, it being true that he’s gay, right? Like especially given his, his public image. Not, not that it’s worse to sleep around than be gay. I just think that it would hurt his reputation less if that was true. And it does sort of explain why he’s in no hurry at all to get married.

Because, you know, as a straight guy, that’s very confusing to you, right? Like if I was a straight guy and I believe the things Nick Fuentes did about stuff like masturbation, I would be constantly desperate to get married. It makes no sense. And he has women that are just like, I will marry you if you’re, he has an entire community of fan girls, right?

Like, this is what I’m talking about when I talk about hypocrisy a among parts of this circle. And what I want to end this with is like, how do you tell the hypocrites from the non hypocrites? And for me, yeah. I’m gonna be honest, I think it’s [00:12:00] super easy.

Simone Collins: Okay, so what’s your secret?

Malcolm Collins: The hypocrites are the hierarchical deontological types mm-hmm.

Who are really obsessed with proper form yeah. Signaling. So examples would be Steve Bannon, so I’m not just putting this on the, the Catholic creators who recently came out as having been Epstein’s best bro. And after it came out that he’s like molesting kids, is trying to put out this big feature leaf documentary, revitalizing his image, showing he’s not that bad.

A guy recreating his branding. Like clearly he put a lot of effort into this and a lot of money into helping Epstein. Not good,

Simone Collins: not good.

Malcolm Collins: After, after the allegations were clear, specifically trying to make the allegations disappear. Wow. So, you know, I, I think that, that this sort of type, and you see this in the conservative circle, everybody knows what we’re talking about.

This is what, what defined the old GOP, right? Right. If you look at the new right creators. Is anything scandalous ever gonna come out about, like, say, asthma, gold or leaflet? No, I, I would be [00:13:00] astonished. Like genuinely astonished. Yeah. If a, if, if it turned out that asthma gold was doing something horrible, like sleep, sleeping around a bunch or something like that or treating women really poorly or if it came out that leaflet acted in a horrible way, I’d be like, what are you, or Kirsha, I would be shocked if Kirsha she’d never, and I think even Keisha’s Catholic, right?

So I’m not even just saying like, you know, I know she’s got that big Bostonian accent. So I, I always assume in my head when I hear the, the, the Bostonian Irish accent, I’m like but yeah, even, even Isha, I would be shocked because she comes off as so like, just genuine,

Simone Collins: but also these people.

I think the, the bigger thing for me is how much time do they spend talking about ideas or concepts versus talking about themselves, their lifestyles, and who they are. Life authenticity is about showing, not telling.

Malcolm Collins: I

Simone Collins: really actions over words. So if you talk about, well, I’m this, I’m that, and you also show.

I’m [00:14:00] like, I am, I am a trad wife. I am a virtuous Christian husband. And you post about it. And this guy who Sarah, whatever had her affair with, would post things very conspicuously on X. Like, here I am taking care of the kids while my wife goes to the gym to get back to her pre-pregnancy body. Guys, you’ve gotta support your housewife in getting out to the gym and like, just stupid, like very, very tell, don’t show.

And I think that’s that’s

Malcolm Collins: huge. Well, is this more than that? This other woman when she’s calling other women who sleep around a lot like bees and hoes and stuff like that, right? Yeah. While, while she’s doing it. I think that’s a, a really good indicator. Like, can you guys imagine Simone calling a woman who sleeps around a lot?

A, a bee or a ho? Like I, I think that to our audience, that would almost be. Comical to think

Simone Collins: of, I must insult people. Who do I insult on this podcast?

Who do I insult?

Malcolm Collins: Literally the only group we ever insult are Catholics [00:15:00] and sometimes Jews.

Simone Collins: I don’t, I don’t insult Catholics or Jews.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you don’t, you don’t even do that.

Simone Collins: Oh I’m really sorry. Anyone working in a bureaucracy? I’m so sorry.

Malcolm Collins: You don’t see them as human and you

Speaker 3: I don’t wanna shoot nobody. They’re just robots. Morty. It’s okay to shoot them. They’re robots. Feel like you shut up. Glen’s bleeding to death. Someone called his wife and she, they’re not robots, Rick. It’s a figure of speech.

Morty. They’re bureaucrats. I don’t respect them. Just keep shooting.

Simone Collins: No no. Like I do, I think that it, like, it, it, and it’s not, I don’t think that the individuals working in bureaucracies are bad people. Or that they are incompetent. I believe that they are incentivized to behave in a way.

That is incompetent. Like, why would you ever go above and beyond when you’re basically only gonna be punished for it? That’s not reported.

Malcolm Collins: I, I point this out about other people, like consider leaflet as an influencer, right? Like, are you gonna see leaflet going on and talking about how other [00:16:00] women are bees or hoes or something like that?

Not like, no, she doesn’t. And, and the key difference that I think you really hit it on the head here is these influencers, when they go out there, they tell you how you should live your life. You’re like, you need, you need to do X, Y, and Z to be a proper, manly conservative male or something like that.

Yeah.

Simone Collins: Do as I say, not as I do. It’s

Malcolm Collins: very much that. Yeah. But when we go out there or leaflet goes out there, or asthma gold goes out there

Simone Collins: they lead by example.

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, that’s not the point I’m making.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: When they’re investigating a point, they’re asking, but why? Mm-hmm. Like, why is it useful to act in this way?

I don’t say like, you should, you should treat your, you know, like the posts that he did. Like if I was gonna do something similar to that post, right? Mm-hmm. IE be a good dad, chip in with helping. I would be very well consequentialist about it. I’d be like, look X type of woman isn’t gonna wanna marry you if you don’t do X, Y, and [00:17:00] Z.

And then once you’re married, you’re gonna develop bad habits that’ll lead to, you know, resentment that’ll lead to these sorts of

Simone Collins: externalities. You don’t even do that. No, your yours is so much better. So literally you do post, ‘cause you add these like clips of you, like stuff you film when you’re around the kids, one like.

Not to dunk on you, but your filming is terrible. Right? So it’s like potato quality. I don’t know what it is. Like we both have pixel phones. Your pixel phone is newer than mine. Your video looks like you filmed it on, on a, a potato with a battery attached to it. And so it’s one, it’s like not all polished, you know, it’s not like Instagram perfect.

It’s not Mormon wife posted Instagram and then it’s like, it’s not you like standing with like a baby carrier, holding another kid, like in a beautifully perfect room. It’s like you looking around piles of trash in the, like the kid room after a day that they spend with you. And like the boys are like in a cloud of wrestling on the floor and you like kick them with your sock foot.

That’s like your video, you know? And that, like, that is, [00:18:00] that is how you know it’s it’s authentic. It’s authentic because it’s not. It’s not flattering, it’s just, but it shows, what it shows is that you actually demonstrably spent the day taking care of the kids, as you can tell from like the,

Malcolm Collins: oh, I bet he spent days taking care of the kids.

Simone Collins: No, and he, yeah, he did. But, but mornings.

Malcolm Collins: But it was the way that he told, well, his wife into the gym and trying to get hot. It was the way that, or, or she told people that. And I think that we need to, as a community be much more proactive about catching people acting like this because it’s, it is something that is toxic to the community itself before it comes out.

That they were just faking everything. Mm. To just

Simone Collins: point out red flag behavior even before the affairs come out.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Point out when they are insulting people in this sort of like, aggressive way when they are trying to create status hierarchies where they’re like, this is the correct way to be, this is the incorrect way to be.

When they don’t see other people who live lifestyles that they [00:19:00] disagree with, with empathy and say, you know, even when they’re talking to those people, this is why that that’s how we win at the end of the day when people come over to the conservative side. And I’ve, I’ve made this point before, but it’s a very important point for conservatives to internalize.

Hmm. Which is the fifth horseman of the apocalypse Muslim lady, I forget her name who Deconverted from his Islam and was a very well known.

Simone Collins: Oh, I Ali.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And then she converted to Christianity. And everybody was like, why did you, when you became theistic, why did you convert to Christianity instead of Islam?

And she’s like, well, the entire time I was out there preaching atheism the Muslims would always come to me and say that they were gonna kill me or, and grate me. And she said, the Christians would often come to me, not always, but often come to me and say, well, I’m praying for you. And I, I, I, I hope that one day, you know, you change your mind on this.

And that, that made it very easy for her when she was like, well, is God real? You know, it’s this. And it’s not just that. More broadly, we’ve seen this on the right. Very generally is people come to the right and they expect everyone to hate them and treat them really poorly. [00:20:00] And by and large what they find is that people don’t hate them.

And they don’t treat them poorly. And they’ll say, I disagree with you on this, or this or this. Or they might tease them on an issue, but there isn’t the aggression they expect. And they’ll often realize pretty quickly that they get more hate in left wing spaces than they do in right wing spaces.

And this is really important. So even if you, for example, disagree with, say same sex relationships, if you want a person who is same sex attracted and thinks same sex relationship, normalization should be a thing to eventually change that position. The first thing they can’t, they, they, they shouldn’t hear when they tr come to the right for the first time.

And they have all these stereotypes about us and everything like that. Shouldn’t be some slur, shouldn’t be, I disagree with your lifestyle. Shouldn’t be, you know, it should be like accepting so that they get a chance to hear ideas and framings. Because I don’t think anyone on the right really believes that same sex attraction isn’t real [00:21:00] anymore.

Like, I don’t think that’s a, a talking point anyone has anymore about why you may not wanna base your life around something like this or sleeping around a lot, you know? I always hate this, that so many people in the right do things like sort of isolate Ayla, who I consider a very good friend of ours.

And a wonderful person. And I would say that I, I like with, with her the only way she ever gets comfortable saying, oh my God, the urban monoculture was wrong. Oh my God. These values are nice, is to espouse and explain these values without attacking individuals. And the problem is, is that the people on the right, which which does require some level of internal policing who do attack these people when they come into our communities are the people who.

So often turn out to be hypocrites. Hmm. And I, I, I would say IF see it fairly rarely if, if I can’t actually think of a single example of one of the [00:22:00] right-leaning figures who doesn’t attack people like this and then hasn’t, has, has later come out with some big scandal that just doesn’t seem to happen.

Simone Collins: Or who just is failing to live up to that ideal. Like they’re still perpetually single. Uncoupled alone, not living the trad dream.

Malcolm Collins: Well, okay, here’s another example of a right-leaning figure who I think is, is very different from us in many views, but I’d be quite shocked to hear some, some, actually, I even think he sort of like the exception that proves a world.

Okay? Okay. He did have a, a big scandal around him, which is Rudyard of, of whatever all his Rudyard. He doesn’t dunk on anyone, does he? No. He never dunks on anyone, is what I mean. But he has had a major scandal. So the point being is his major scandal was about him doing ayahuasca and, and crashing out about mysticism, right?

Like that’s not being mean to somebody. That doesn’t show that he has like a, a a mean heart or is fundamentally a hypocritical person, him crashing out on ayahuasca. [00:23:00] Is exactly something I would expect Rudyard to do. He didn’t like reveal some other side of his personality that was completely antithetical to everything he has presented himself as being.

He just was like, yeah, I am exactly who I have always told you I am.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: But what you don’t see from him is some scandal about him you know, cheating on a woman or beating a woman or something like that. Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, I think also ‘cause this came up with someone who listens to the podcast and was talking about, I think this, this, this scandal like brought it up to me.

What scandal? This, this particular scandal. And

Malcolm Collins: what about it?

Simone Collins: Well, they said someone really needs to invent a genetic test for ho behavior. If Malcolm could do it, you guys could become zillionaires. And he thinks that there’s a genetic basis because there are [00:24:00] girls who, like, he, he thinks that there are genes that correlate with it.

I, I don’t really,

Malcolm Collins: I think there are genes that correlate with it.

Simone Collins: You

Malcolm Collins: do. You, you do. Oh, yeah. You isolate that. I’ll keep reading here, but back when I used to be a hoe, because I was a hoe younger, as I said, I’ve still around was like a hundred plus people. I really regret that I ever did that during that time in my life.

I didn’t really have some alternate framing of morality than the urban monoculture and, and what I got from my parents. And so I didn’t know, like I, I thought. I’m a young man. You look at what young men are told online, and it’s you are, you are more manly if you sleep around more. And this may not be as, as strong a message right now online, but keep in mind, this was like pre-read pill, right?

Like this was the, the community that bore that out. This is the community that, you know, Andrew Tate came out of it, everything like that, right? Like mm-hmm. It was sleep around and that’s what you do, right? And I have noted that that is enough people to get sampling. Data, right? Like to, to, to get enough [00:25:00] data between cultural groups and as people know, I, I, I almost exclusively dated not because if you watch your episode on like racial attractiveness, I just, for whatever reason, except for one black girl, exclusively white girls.

So I was able to compare white cultures specifically Jewish, Catholic, and Protestant culture was a, with a high degree of precision.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Because those were the groups and you

Simone Collins: think there’s a polygenic score for ho behavior.

Malcolm Collins: So, if you were going to rank women based on how horny they were Oh like constantly, like how much they wanted to sleep around just

sex

Simone Collins: drive.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I slept with a lot of other people’s girlfriends too. Mind you. So I also know how, how likely they were to cheat, I would literally put young Catholic girls that maybe three x the other two groups they are incredibly horny compared to Catholic.

Simone Collins: So not Protestants, Catholics.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I think that there’s a historic reason for it as well.

So if, if [00:26:00] you’re looking at sort of biology, you needed to have a strong desire to want to get with somebody. And then after you get with somebody, have a lot of kids. Yeah. And, and, and Catholics historically were known for this. Yes, yes.

Malcolm Collins: They, they historically got married, younger and had lots of kids.

So being horny as a Catholic, especially if you have this deontological framework, because what Catholicism really is, is it’s a bunch of rules around like not masturbating, not spilling seed, not having sex outside of marriage. Mm-hmm. And so if you have all of these deontological rules, they basically funnel your internal biological drive towards an in-state.

Which is having lots of kids, right? Mm-hmm. Like assuming you cannot fulfill them with other people. Right? Now, you, you, you put that in a modern context where a lot of Catholics today you know, they don’t get married until they’re 30. They don’t get, you know, even when they’re [00:27:00] married, they’re not having sex constantly.

Right. If they’re sort of biologically engineered to just be having sex constantly in their like twenties to to to mid thirties and, and producing lots of kids, that’s going to lead to a lot of externalities. Mm-hmm. Whereas and PE by the way, people are wondering about the other two groups.

Simone Collins: In other words, you’re just arguing. There, there were more evolutionary pressures among people who were active practicing Catholics to have high sex drives like the Catholics with high sex drives Yes. Were the Catholics who inherited the future of Catholicism for a long time. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: They, they, they simply had more evolutionary pressures on having lots of having a high sex drive relating to having a lot of surviving children mm-hmm.

Than other metaphysical frameworks for reality. Interesting. That’s, that’s what Deontology does, although these deontological funnels, and this is why out of the other two groups the next most horny group was jus they were still fairly horny. , And as to why that that could be the case.

There’s still gonna be more biological pressures on a, on a, like Jewish because you have all the Jewish rules around, like [00:28:00] when you can have sex and everything like that. It’s just that Jews don’t hold to those rules as rigidly as Catholics do, but they have most of the same rules that Catholics do.

Well, there’s,

Simone Collins: there are also the rules, which are. Very, I guess, female sex positive of you need to pleasure your wife. She,

Malcolm Collins: And then of the Protestants I dated, I’d say that like half would, would count as what you would today call asexual or completely reactive sexual. My, my wife falls into this category which is a case that she does not like just randomly get horny except for like maybe once a year.

She. Uh, More than

Simone Collins: once a year, but it really, it depends heavily on like where I am hormonally. It’s very weird.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But, but reactive sexuality means that she does feel arousal, but like when you are touching her or rubbing against her, or you have already engaged her in some form of sexual No, it’s, it’s, it’s something that a lot of men do not understand.

A lot of women don’t understand and they think that they’re asexual. It’s [00:29:00] important to understand that that doesn’t mean you’re asexual.

Simone Collins: No. You have to activate sex mode. That is how you do it.

Malcolm Collins: Well, and this is because if you’re looking at the metaphysical framework that motivated reproduction was in Protestant communities.

If you look at the old framings of this, and we’ve done episodes of like why people used to have kids, why people used to have sex. Yeah. Protestant did it because it was like their duty to their family. It was their duty to their religion. You, you literally have ca names given to young Puritan girls.

Thou

Simone Collins: shall not Blaspheme Prudence.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. The one that I love was like thou shall have many children or something like that. Right. Like the, like literal, like just, you’re gonna do X thing. So the, it’s a, it’s a completely different framework about why you have kids. The, the Protestant women that had the most kids were the ones that felt the least.

External biological drives and were able to just logic themselves into having more kids. I’m just

Simone Collins: imagining like a, a modern, like pilgrim baby born like 10 years ago, being able like [00:30:00] learn to code.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The, the, the, whereas the Catholics who had the most kids were the ones who followed the deontological rule set that helped funnel their internal desire into children.

It’s a, it’s a completely different framework and I think it’s led to different outcomes, different population. Oh wow.

Simone Collins: Okay. So it’s not apologetic score, it’s are they consequentialist or deontological? Deontologists. That’s the question.

Malcolm Collins: And, and if you do that over generations, it leads to different outcomes.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean I think also your general rule of thumb of finding women who did not invest, who, who were more interested in raw, and I’m not saying like, I’m not like. You would go for crazy women. But it was through like Machiavellian or like insane ambition rather than social drama. So it [00:31:00] was they were manic, but they weren’t borderline personality disorder.

Or they were like highly neurotic or autistic, but they weren’t like schizo. And also you, you had, you didn’t invest in women who wore a lot of makeup. You didn’t invest in women who, yeah. Like styled themselves real. Okay. You had a couple, you, you had at least one girlfriend who was very good at styling herself and had impeccable amazing style.

But that was just because of her background. It wasn’t like. She did it because it was how she was raised. It wasn’t like she was trying to like infect. Actually,

Malcolm Collins: this is a, a, a a interesting point because I was just thinking about how different the two groups were. Yeah. Or I said that about half of the Protestant women that I, I I dated and slept with had reactive sexualities or like, were basically asexual bi societal standards.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I’d say about half of the Catholic women wanted to have sex at least every day.

Simone Collins: Oh, oh.

Speaker 4: do you get your five fruits and veg? Oh, I mean, I certainly tried to. I would say I probably, I probably do a day. A [00:32:00] what?

Simone Collins: So the one,

Malcolm Collins: it, it

Simone Collins: wasn’t like you talked about,

Malcolm Collins: it wasn’t like a, a small difference. It was like an enormous

Simone Collins: difference between one where there’s a conflict between like you studying and intimate time. That was she a Catholic girlfriend?

Malcolm Collins: I can’t remember. Was her.

Simone Collins: Okay. That’s interesting. But I, I feel like if, if I were to advise our sons, I would say. Don’t look at how she styles herself. Now we can fix that because like your mom fixed a lot of things about me after I was introduced to the family. Yeah. So you can, you can fix someone’s grooming and styling an appearance immediately.

As soon as she knew that we were gonna get engaged, she, she was literally like shipping clothes to my apartment. I, I wonder if I can like, dig up some of the pictures. She just like suddenly just starts sending me like, all her, all of her old clothes. Get,

Malcolm Collins: get dressed. Nice girl.

Simone Collins: Yeah. She’s like, Ugh, fix it.

She would

Malcolm Collins: hate your outfit today,

Simone Collins: by the way. It’s so She would, but then she’d be so excited about all the Epstein drops that she like, I don’t know. She would, would fall out, you know, [00:33:00] like, she awesome. But anyway, I do look at the girl. Don’t invest in styling. You could fix that. Look at her mother and how her mother has aged.

I think that’s a really important, like good rule of thumb.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I think, I think a good rule is don’t date overly horny girls. Like this is an easy thing. Right?

Simone Collins: Like me too. You, you wouldn’t need, oh yeah, I guess, yeah, if she’s really horny, she might need to satisfy herself outside your relationship.

Yeah. Yeah. That’s but up. Well what about the guys who are like, yeah, but I need a girlfriend who constantly wants to pounce on me. Like, I don’t know. I think it’s one of those things like be aware, can’t have at all aware. She constantly

Malcolm Collins: wants to pounce on you. She’s gonna occasionally wanna pounce on other things as well.

Like

Simone Collins: the reason why don’t worry. Either you get dead bedrooms or you get an unfaithful wife. Is this like the, is this the choice? Yeah. Do you want the red pill or the blue pill? What are you gonna choose, guys? Actually, Wayne, in the comments, what would you choose if like, I mean, I, I think you’re right though.

I think it’s true. It’s,

Malcolm Collins: I I know, I think you’re right. And I, I, I’ll point out that your wife’s sexuality will go down the longer you’re married to each other, right? Like, yeah. People, and I [00:34:00] don’t think that that’s a bad thing, right? Like. I get to play with my kids more. Right? Like sex is a, a waste of time.

Oh God. I’m gonna get more

Simone Collins: emails. Simone, you need to go. Pleasure Malcolm right now.

Malcolm Collins: And I, and I bet you’re getting those emails from Catholic female fans because of Norm. I wonder Catholic culture.

Simone Collins: I wonder, I wonder,

Malcolm Collins: That’s just right to him

Simone Collins: right now. Pull

Malcolm Collins: out way more sexual and

Simone Collins: give him a b*****b.

Do it now. No,

Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s important to talk about this before I go further with this piece because I think that there is this perception and it leads to really big problems in society. Yeah. That white people are all the same and white people are not all the same. We are biologically and psychologically quite different from each other.

Hmm. And if we don’t call that out Yeah. And you try to force yourself to live in the way that another group is designed to live.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And often right now I I, I argue that a lot of people are trying to live like the urban monoculture, which borrows the most from Jewish culture. It’s got a bit of Catholic [00:35:00] culture mixed in.

It’s got a bit of Protestant culture mixed in. And then they try to apply that to other cultural groups and people are like, why? Why did the Jews fertility rates not hit as much as other groups? And I’m like, well, because the Jews are still living in Jewish culture. Right. But you are trying to live in like friendship is magic nonsense.

Watch our episode on why Jews have friends where I point out that a lot of cultural groups just do not have large friend networks historically.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And if you go out there and you say, well, I’m only gonna be fulfilled if I have a ton of friends. And you’re not from a culture that’s like biologically built to have lots of friends, you’re gonna be effing miserable.

Absolutely. And you’re gonna go to parties and you’re gonna be like, why the heck am I at this party? This is not fun. Yeah. Nothing about This is fun. You will go to a nightclub and you will say. The, I do not biologically understand why anyone is here. Or if you’re, if you are from a culture that’s biologically built for those things, and it’s okay to be different, right?

Like, it’s not bad to be different, but if you’re biologically built for those things, you go to your other friend’s house and you, they, they play d and d or whatever, [00:36:00] and you’re like, this is the most boring thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they’re having a blast. These people appear to be having, why is this happening?

Yeah. And it’s because we don’t allow the answer to be, they might be biologically different from you.

Simone Collins: That’s a really good point. That’s a really good point.

Malcolm Collins: Like with d and d, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll point this out. What, what group do I think is biologically more prone to enjoying d and d, the East Asian ethnic group?

The East

Simone Collins: Asian, I dunno. I don’t see very many like East Asians famously into.

Malcolm Collins: Really if you go to like, from what I remember, like DD stuff, I always remembered unusual amount of East Asians like leaflets. An example the, I I, I don’t know among the white groups, because I haven’t been in DD enough to make that distinction among the people I see at DD groups.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Honestly, I’m just, I’m thinking of all the, all the people who showed up on Harman Quest and the people who had

Malcolm Collins: I, and I’d also note here, because I wanna be clear about this this [00:37:00] particular Protestant, Jewish Catholic distinction that’s sort of like partially biological it is not one where I am strictly saying that like it is worse to marry someone of Catholic descent.

Because here I’m pointing out that if you don’t want a dead bedroom of that’s like your nightmare scenario Catholics are gonna be the lowest chance of that happening. Yeah. Well I

Simone Collins: think this is a really, no, it’s a really good point though, in that. It. The, a really big element of the, like perfect trad family is a chaste wife who was a virgin coming into marriage and, and saved herself and didn’t feeling

Malcolm Collins: sex

Simone Collins: was her eye.

Never wanders. And then, but, but, oh, you know, God forbid, like you would ever have to initiate or that she would ever not be interested.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no. Actually, I, this changed. This changed, and I think that this is part of the problem with modern tra culture

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Is that historically the perfect tra wife was not super horny for her husband

Simone Collins: was sexually [00:38:00] reluctant.

Malcolm Collins: Really? She, she was sexually repressed in all things. Okay. She would have sex to have children, but she was not like,

Simone Collins: oh, so, but it was understood that you would be intimate with a dead fish.

Malcolm Collins: Right. If, if you look at well not necessarily a dead fish, like she might try to engage, but you look at like Puritan writings around sexuality and stuff like that.

You got steamy

Simone Collins: Whatcha talking about like they didn’t, they didn’t.

Malcolm Collins: No, no. They talked about sex very graphically and in a steamy way. But the reason why they talked about sex graphically in a steamy way is you could tell that sex just was not very tempting to them. Like they could afford to be so steamy because in the same way that like we, if you read the Pragma Guide to Sexuality, we go really deep into really bizarre fetishes.

But it’s because the entire field is just so un alluring to us.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: It’s not something that, that evokes this reflective, like, I’ve gotta push this away from me because it’s not a grabbing of us in the same

Simone Collins: way. No. I think actually for people, if like, [00:39:00] just, just to head off, everyone is gonna write to me and tell me like, okay, for me sex is a lot like alcohol.

Where like I will knock back five ounces of vodka and feel like kind of happy or whatever, right. And like, you know, Malcolm and just get like really cheerful and loving. And it’s great and I enjoy it and it’s fun. And it’s the same with sex. Like I’ll, we’ll go for it, you know, and it’s great. But like also sometimes we need to work or like we have to choose, like, I have to choose between like, am I going to knock back five ounces of vodka?

Or am I going to like. Be more efficient in cleaning up tonight?

Malcolm Collins: Well, no, I mean, this is, this is really what it comes down to. You’re always choosing between things. And right now what are we working on? We’re trying to save society. We are trying to save not, not just socially, not just through Tism, but also from ai safety related stuff.

I mean, that’s the end goal agency in our fab. So every day, huge, long hours, but also be there for our

Simone Collins: kids. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and then we’re trying to raise five children right now and, and, and [00:40:00] more every year. And so I need to ask myself, if ever I’m like, oh, I wanna have sex. I’m like, is this it? Is the pleasure I’m feeling from this, literally more important than potentially saving the world.

Right? Like the. The fixing this AI issue,

Simone Collins: but actually the, like, actually think about it guys. Like, so the, so the kids are like asleep or something and then, you know, Malcolm wakes up at 2:00 AM if we end up banging, you know, he’s probably gonna sleep in a little bit.

Malcolm Collins: I’ve lost like a day of work time because I’ve exhausted myself during the only time I get alone.

And then,

Simone Collins: yeah, because like he, he uses like we, we both just sort of mentally wind down a little bit after the kids are in bed. Like, it’s the one time we take to like do stupid stuff. Like I watch legal procedural, this I

Malcolm Collins: don’t

Simone Collins: believe tune. And you watch whatever anime on crunchy roll and like, well

Malcolm Collins: this, this is why I do not believe that people like Ellie Eer Kukowski have ever been serious about AI safety in a lot of the EA community.

Oh, if you have time to be polyamorous, you, you are not. Actually that concern

Simone Collins: or just to like hang out and [00:41:00] socialize. Yeah. ‘cause I mean, you we’re like literally choosing between like, do I, you know, go to an essential doctor appointment or do I, you know, work code on this AI thing? Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And I, I wanna point out here, Simone that living this type of like 24 7 grind set is not something that people from some cultural backgrounds are really built to do.

Yeah. And one of the, the, the things I’ve noted about this, if you talk about adapting cultures that you’re not biologically adapted to is a really high rate of unli of white people who try to adapt JN culture. Because JN has a stoicism combined with a 24 7 grind set instead of a vitalism combined with a 24 7 grind set.

Ah. And that just doesn’t mix with. Most white cultural groups and,

Simone Collins: and I think, yeah, people need to be forgiving. Yeah. When people try to shove themselves into cultures that their biology isn’t designed to like

adapting

Malcolm Collins: for Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like we are all about this like thin lip American gothic, like just leaving the [00:42:00] point I was making is that if you look at

Malcolm Collins: America traditionally Yeah.

The, the perfect trad wife was not constantly horny. The thing that broke trad wife was the idea of a trad wife who’s always gonna be horny for her husband.

Simone Collins: Oh, this was when tra wife met Stepford wife, and then

Malcolm Collins: it was when trad wife needed to become sexy. And we have an episode. Who did that happen?

Well, we have an episode titled how girl Defined Ruined an Entire Generation of Women. A a joke on the How Scott Pilgrim ruined an entire generation of pilgrim women. And specifically what I point out in that episode is they started to say things like, if you wait till marriage for sex, sex is so much better.

Simone Collins: It’s, oh, yeah, yeah. They’re basically trying to say. Well, we offer everything the progressive debauched culture offers just within the bounds of marriage. Oh. And they were trying to say, well, we can do it better and

Malcolm Collins: wrong. Yeah. They were trying to be like, sex is actually the purpose of life. Sex is actually [00:43:00] like, sex is actually the best when what they should have been selling and what should have been being sold.

Like,

Simone Collins: get over yourself.

Malcolm Collins: Sex is not that great. Mm-hmm. Sex is not the purpose of your life. Yeah. Sex does not make you more of a man or a woman if you need to have sex to have kids do it. But otherwise, it’s a recreational pastime. No different than any other self-indulgent recreational pastime. Yeah.

And you don’t need to say that it’s okay to be like, if you don’t have sex till marriage, it’s going to suck in marriage. It’s, it’s, it’s gonna be worse than the person who has learned techniques from a bunch of different people. Like, that’s just obviously true. Right. I, who’s that

Simone Collins: bad?

Malcolm Collins: No, you’re, you’re fine because I know what I’m doing and I know how to teach you what to do.

Right. Like, but the point being is this myth of you know, abstinence, making sex with the person you’re abstinent for better

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Ends up leading eventually, I think for a lot of these women to be like, well, if, if, if sex was this big, magical thing and I was told [00:44:00] that sex was gonna be this big, magical thing and I saved myself for it, and I did it in marriage and it still wasn’t magical, well then maybe I need to try it with other people.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe it’s just my partner. And that’s where instead of being like, no, sex is just like not, but keep in mind my strategy here is the Protestant strategy historically. Yeah. To say sex is just not that good. Sex doesn’t matter that much. Do not pedestal sex. Mm-hmm. And it works with my biology to our Catholic viewers, this strategy may not work for you.

Right? Like you may need to come up with a completely different strategy to deal with urges that my wife and I just don’t have. And it’s a, a whole, I mean, it was in the current like social order to say that, right? People are like, oh, that means your marriage isn’t as strong or anything like that. It’s like, no, yeah, I’m

Simone Collins: gonna get those emails.

Malcolm, just, you wait.

Malcolm Collins: My wife has literally never once in our entire relationship turned me down for sex. Never once.

Simone Collins: Because you’re hot.

Malcolm Collins: If [00:45:00] I wanted to have sex every day, I could. I choose not to because I think I, I have a responsibility towards society, towards something greater

Simone Collins: In the past, like, you know, 20 times, I’m pretty sure I’ve initiated like 19 of them.

Malcolm Collins: Yes, actually that is true. The past 20 times, you have initiated at least 19 of them because I am much more disciplined about this than you. But anyway.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. Yeah. We haven’t even included my botched initiations when I’m bang at your door on

Malcolm Collins: the door. Anyway, you gotta continue the author article and we’re never gonna finish this.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. Okay. One user on X said the trad wife image just collapsed in real time. Another wrote this is peak hypocrisy. Even if half of it is, even if only half of it is true, Sarah later deactivated her ex account as the backlash intensified.

And then here’s a tweet from John Root. Here’s another reminder that the vast majority of Christian conservative influencers are Christian in name only. It’s a grift to them. Sarah Stock is just another example. They don’t care about living for [00:46:00] Jesus. They just want to use his name in vain to build their brand, cash, their checks, and get invites on podcasts and fancy dinners and conferences. It’s twisted in either We’re

Simone Collins: are,

Malcolm Collins: oh, we’re not Christians.

Simone Collins: Yeah. That’s why we’re not,

Malcolm Collins: oh, here’s another thing I note. If you, if you’re like, how do I tell who the real ones are and who the fake ones are?

Uhhuh another really easy difference is are they following all the rules or do they have a unique theology and metaphysical framework?

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s, yeah. How nerdy are they?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. If you look at them mm-hmm. And every single one of their beliefs looks like the form of vanilla ca, Catholicism Yeah.

Paste. That’s going to be accepted by a conservative audience without anyone being like, you are weird here, or you are weird here. Yeah.

Simone Collins: They’re like, well actually, and then, then, you know, they’re for real. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: They’re probably, yeah. Fake. If, if, if their theology or metaphysical framework or belief subverts [00:47:00] normal conservative culture in a number of ways mm-hmm.

You, they are much more likely to be being honest with you. And this is something I tell women all the time, A woman will say, how do I know if a man isn’t just pretending that he wants a long-term relationship pretending to parrot my views back to me Okay. To sleep with me. Mm-hmm. And I go, if he parrots back every view you want to hear and parrots back an ideology that looks exactly like your ideology, he’s lying to you.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Real ideologies. Have differences from yours.

Simone Collins: 100%.

Malcolm Collins: And this is why I know that somebody like Rudyard, for example, is being honest. There are all sorts of parts of his ideology that very much differ from the trad conservative ideology that he would be pretending

Simone Collins: well or honestly from anyone’s ideology.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: If he had a even

Simone Collins: conspiracy theorist ideology. Even for mystic’s ideology. Yeah. It is unique to him. And it is therefore

Malcolm Collins: this is, this is, if you go to Sargon of a cod, for example Sargon of a cod is very open about being an [00:48:00] atheist. Right? Like if he was putting on a fake persona about his beliefs, he would just pretend to be a Christian.

Simone Collins: Yeah. It would be way easier. Yes.

Malcolm Collins: If you look at our beliefs, our weird techno puritan nonsense, it’d be way easier not to have that. It would be way easier to have those beliefs. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Probably you’re talking Yeah. That the article mentioned fancy dinners and stuff, and I’m like, aw. The stuff we could have maybe, maybe Heritage Foundation would’ve given us like fellowships or something.

That would’ve been

Malcolm Collins: nice. If you look at a, a conservative influencer who hasn’t had a big crash out yet, but to me would come off as very suspicious of likely having a crash out in the future. Ooh, Tim Pool. Tim Pool is way too down the line, conservative for me.

Simone Collins: But, but he used to be a occupy Wall Street.

Malcolm Collins: He did, he did, used to be Occupy Wall Street, which makes it even weirder that he doesn’t seem to disagree with conservatives on any major talking point.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: That is weird. That, that he, he should have things that he is regularly disagreeing on. He should have some [00:49:00] opinion that regularly splits his audience.

Simone Collins: Maybe this is though a product of us not being deep enough in his lore. I don’t

Malcolm Collins: watch. Yeah. Maybe we’re not deep enough in his lore. I want, I’m just missing

Simone Collins: something. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But I, I, I will say that I do find it suspicious that I can go an entire stream without hearing a single point that I would say differs from mainstream conservative values.

Mm.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Red flag I guess you have to, people will comment if he has heterodox.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. People will comment and be like, oh, you’re missing this, or You’re missing this about

Simone Collins: good. ‘cause we want that because I want to believe that Tim Poole is a, is a bro.

Malcolm Collins: But to continue here this is from Venom. Meet Sarah Stock popular right-wing Catholic t trad influencer.

February, 2025. Started sleeping with Elijah Schaeffer. She had sex with Schaeffer the day she met him. She slept with him the day before. Her engagement, multiple pregnancy scares did one abortion. She got engaged in August, 2025 to Will Seca lied to her husband that she was a virgin and told him to wait until marriage.

Oh, while she’s sleeping with another guy she fooled her husband. Thousands of her followers. Why are women like this? How can somebody [00:50:00] preach traditional values while secretly living the opposite? Well, the answer is, is because people like us don’t preach traditional values. The people who are have values that have any element of traditionalism wisdom do not constantly preach them.

They explain them. They explain why living a lifestyle wisdom might be better and why they might have been wrong in their previous values. They don’t. Preach them, but to continue here. Mm-hmm. SEC is described as working in political organizations in grassroots activist circles, unlike his wife, if he kept a very low public profile.

Oh no. The honest one keeps a low public profile. There were no viral videos, no regular commentary, no influencer persona. His online presence was mostly Sue Sarah’s posts, especially during their engagement in wedding. His surname also became an unexpected talking point. Some online users pointed out his Eastern European roots sparking ironic comments giving Sarah’s previous arguments about immigration and European identity.

Oh wow. One user on X said she mocked immigrants while proudly taking a surname was an immigrant history. Sarah’s stock faces [00:51:00] massive backlash. Sarah built her online identity around anti-abortion views, modesty, and strict Christian morality. Because of this, the alleged details of are fair claims struck many followers as deeply contradictory reactions online were harsh and emotional.

Some users accused her of misleading or followers. Others expect sympathy for Will Ska describing him as an unwitting husband caught in an internet storm. Here we have a tweet from Brian Atlas. Sarah stock claims to be a virgin and waiting for marriage on the whatever podcast body count reveal. Was she lying?

Users on X said quote, imagine finding out that your marriage is trending for the worst region possible. End quote. The controversy also reopened debates about authenticity and influencer culture, especially in ideological spaces where personal life and public messaging are closely tied together.

Here we see the raw egg nationalist friend of the show been on the show. Woo. Yes. One months before he died, Charlie Kirk congratulated Sarah stock on her engagement. She had been having an affair with her married [00:52:00] boss. The moment her boyfriend popped the question, what a tangled web try to influencers weave.

And that’s her showing her ring in front of a feel with Charlie Kirk saying, congrats. Marriage is amazing and marriage is amazing when you have a good partner. And I still, by the way, think Charlie Kirk’s partner is and has been a good partner, and I do not like the scandal that people make up about her.

I think it’s deeply disgusting the way that people like Nick Foes talk about her

Simone Collins: Candace Owens and a bunch of other people,

Malcolm Collins: and Candace Owens, a lot of Janice Owens, by the way, is somebody who I would totally expect to have a crash out. It, it,

Simone Collins: I’m sorry. She’s been crashing out. Oh, never. Sorry guys.

I know there’s a lot of really big Candace Owens fans who watch Basecamp. She’s fun, she’s very entertaining. But yeah, there’s, she’s having moment. I

Malcolm Collins: haven’t seen her go against her fan base. She may be spiky, but she doesn’t go against her fan base from what I’ve seen, which to me is a sign that she might have a crash out soon.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I, I see her, well, I mean, at least I would be shocked if she wasn’t utterly devoted to her family. Her husband works with [00:53:00] her. I don’t know. Like I, I, I get the impression that she’s very much leaned into them.

Malcolm Collins: Maybe to me she just has a lot of warning signs.

Simone Collins: No, for sure, for sure. I mean, she’s opportun.

She’s she’s enterprising. She’s an enterprising young woman.

Malcolm Collins: Throughout the scandal, will Secka has made no public statement. If you, what a classy guy this guy is. He has not appeared in interviews nor respondent on social media. The silence has only increased public curiosity about her commentary on videos and threads often refer to him as a private man pulled into a public crisis.

Poor man. Many discussions frame him as l less a participant, and more as collateral damage in a story dominated by louder personalities. What happened to the full story?

What happened to the full story?

Simone Collins: Wait, what?

Malcolm Collins: This is not the story I meant to read. We’ve gotta get the full story and finish it another day.

Simone Collins: Okay. Yeah. ‘

Malcolm Collins: cause there’s a story about how the other guy who was having the affair crashed out.

Simone Collins: Oh, [00:54:00] yes.

Malcolm Collins: It was effing hilarious. Well, I’ll skip to the good crash out portions from that story and we’ll finish that another day and stitch it on here.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Or you can record it over, like, as an add-on to this as you just do that.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no, no, no. You have to, you want me, you have to react. This is fun stuff, Simone.

Simone Collins: I love the gossip. I do.

Malcolm Collins: I wouldn’t able to gossip on our podcast. No. I love gossip.

I

Simone Collins: love gossip.

Malcolm Collins: We wouldn’t get gossip. Okay. And I love that our, our part of the conservative scene has no gossip.

We, we generally, like none of the online new Right drama really attacks each other aggressively. None of the online knew. Right. Really seriously. Right. Like,

Simone Collins: well, I have like genuine affection for even the people who I think like strategically are the most, like opposed to us, like the, like I for example, I love Emma Waters.

I love her so much. I love her husband. I [00:55:00] love her. Oh yeah, she’s great. She recently tweeted something along the lines of like, IVF is going to be the new, like, pro-choice front of the war. Like, we’re moving the front lines from abortion to IVF. I’m like, wow, here we go. Well,

Malcolm Collins: and people are, people like us are gonna stop fighting for Republicans.

If you get people voting for that.

Simone Collins: I mean, it’s just, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be a very interesting debate. And, and, and despite that, despite the fact that we’re gonna be at ideological loggerheads there. I, I love them. I love them. If they, if their house burned down and they’re like, we need somewhere to stay, I’d be like, come here.

You know, like that kind of love and you know how I feel about people. I hate people. I don’t wanna be around people, but I would open up our house to them. So yeah, it just, that’s such a contrast to the rest of this movement, which feels so catty. It’s like fifth grade girls, they’re so mean.

Malcolm Collins: Well, they’re a completely different thing.

They’re all old school Republican, like, you know, turning points, USA types, right? Like that community had a lot of, of [00:56:00] people who just cared about signaling. Whereas if you look at the online, right, you know, you’re, your, your kirsha is your nex, is your ESMA gold, your,

Simone Collins: because fundamentally these are people who care about society and the future of humanity.

Like, we may disagree about tactics, but we, we have very spirited debates about how to do it. And we’re all like really trying to like, work on this project that is humanity. Like that’s what we’re artistically all so excited about. And we understand that like we’re not mad at each other for disagreeing.

‘cause we’re like, I respect that you care about this as much as I do. Let’s figure this out together. And I love that. And like, a little rivalry is fun too. I mean, we can have fun. Oh gosh. Okay. We have to get the kids. I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Love you

Okay, here is the longer juicier article.

Malcolm Collins: for much of the past decade, chauffer has been a regular presence on the far right conservative media scene as a podcaster commentator, and in his latest incarnation as the CEO of the Outlet Rift tv. Schaeffer in various sidekicks would often discuss TRA values of which he married in [00:57:00] 2020.

And now the father of two young children was not just an outspoken supporter, but presumably an exemplar. A few months ago, chauffer took a mysterious months long absence from his live string show on Rumble the right wing video platform when he returned last week on January. Six. He looked rough.

Chauffer admitted his face was unusually red. He blamed the lights in the new studio and said he had developed a quote unquote permanent black eye from a crushing mental stress as he put it, and that would cause a lesser man. To Un alive chauffeur certainly had plenty to be stressed about. FBI Director Cash Patel’s girlfriend is suing him for suggesting she’s a Mossad agent.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: he claimed that people were trying to kill him, but unbeknownst to his listeners as something else was weighing on chauffeur. Despite being one of the digital rights, most vocal boosters of traditional families he had filed for divorce from his wife four days earlier. Ditching his usual material aimed [00:58:00] at whipping up hate towards Indian immigrants and Muslims.

Yeah. Chauffer instead used his return show to launch into a baffling rant straight out of family court. He vowed that he wouldn’t give up his sons quote without a few shots fired. In quote, he told his viewers he wasn’t necessarily speaking metaphorically. Right

Simone Collins: nor normally that ends with in Minecraft, but not in Minecraft.

Malcolm Collins: Minecraft.

Simone Collins: He’s like, no,

Malcolm Collins: Minecraft. I’m not, I’m not gonna go down without, without, you know, a few shots fired. Ver said figuratively. Figuratively. Of course we’re saying, but physically too, if needed. Oh

Simone Collins: God,

Malcolm Collins: this is about his wife. Mind you then a chauffeur.

And then Chauffeur appeared to address his estranged wife. Mama Bear. Mama Bear. F. You chauffer said, what about dad? What about Dad? Don’t f with me. Don’t f with my kids. Don’t f with my [00:59:00] income. Don’t f. With my ability to take care of my kids, I will F you up. The monologue grew. Stranger Chauffeur urged his fans to, to learn from him and overcome their addictions, their thoughts of unli, their impulse to commit criminal behavior, and their sexual proclivities.

Still, he couldn’t help but limit how far his star has fallen. I’d really like to regrow. I’d like to get back to where I was a couple years ago. He said, why wouldn’t you? Chauffeur was once a rising star on the right, not as a commentator on TRA issues, but as an ad-libbing political loud mouse. His coverage of the 2020 riots in the wake of George Floyd’s murder propelled him into a job hosting a popular show for Mentor Glen Beck’s network.

Blaze Chauffeur’s, boozy. Racist frat boy persona was a hit, and it seemed not even asserting that Mormons like his boss, Beck would burn in, hell could stop him. He literally was in Nancy Pelosi’s office on January 26th and saw his statue grew because [01:00:00] of it. But in 2020 chauffeur. Fired from Blaze after allegedly groping a coworker.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: cow. He also provoked another harassment lawsuit against the outlet from his female co-host. What, sorry, I’m clicking on this article about him groping he groped a colleague’s breast without her consent. Jesus, how could, how do you not just not grope a coworker?

Simone Collins: Yeah, it seems, I mean.

Yeah, if you’re gonna, if you’re gonna grope, keep it

Malcolm Collins: off a workplace. This is when he took a he, this is when he took his trad turn. Chauffeur emerged from that initial disgrace by becoming a vocal family man, touting his wife and children frequently on social media and shaming other influencers who didn’t have strong marriages and households.

It worked for a time, but it apparently wasn’t enough to off financial trouble for the RIF tv. An online channel chauffer launched last May. [01:01:00] The platform had seen its public staff list dwindle in the last few months. This job has destroyed me, and I’m not even very popular, chauffer said during a January 28th, worse was to come on Monday.

Chauffeur posted a bizarre video that showed him wandering around an empty hotel conference room as they were flooded with water. What

Simone Collins: I clicked through to that, and it is exactly as described, just him holding the camera and, yeah. Flooded hotel. It’s weird. Very fever, dreamy, very fever.

Malcolm Collins: Well hallucinating on an unknown substance.

Simone Collins: Yeah, just click on it, you’ll see it. It is exactly as described that you think, I don’t know how else to put it. There’s no other way you can put it. It’s a flooded hotel conference area.

He’s in a dark place.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: he’s in flooded liminal spaces hallucinating. It’s not good.

Malcolm Collins: No, but I also find it a very interesting thing and it shows [01:02:00] his psychology that he goes from groping a female coworker to trying to play up the trad image. I am lucky. I do not have a problem with groping. I’ve never felt tempted to grope a staff member.

Simone Collins: It just seems, I, it, I guess, is it about power theoretically that like, I can do this and I’m gonna get away with it?

Malcolm Collins: Maybe,

Simone Collins: but I think that in the past it was more just like. The same kind of impulse that maybe grandparents have with grandchildren’s cheeks. You know, like, oh

Malcolm Collins: no, groping of breast is not like that,

Simone Collins: Simone.

It’s not, oh,

Malcolm Collins: no,

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I can’t, I can’t model this.

Malcolm Collins: Even when I was horny all the time, as a kid, I, I would, I would better than to grope other, like the level of self-control you need to lack to think that that will end up okay. But then to go from there to the TRAT influencers. Chick anyway. On [01:03:00] Tuesday, chauffeur made a strange expost about his family being kidnapped and claimed the FBI without to murder him, promoting worries on the right that he himself had hurt or endangered his own family.

In a mark of how twisted the far the online right has become far right, YouTuber, Jean Francis Gore, whose own wife disappeared under mysterious circumstances in 2023 and was never found. Wondered openly whether chauffeur was smart enough to murder his spouse without being discovered.

Simone Collins: The shade.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, no. Did you fully rock? What just happened? So this guy whose wife disappeared under mysterious circumstances Yeah. And has never been found.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Wondered if this other guy was smart enough to murder his wife without being caught.

Simone Collins: Well, he knows what it takes. So,

Malcolm Collins: oh my God. Poor Elijah Grey asked, does he have the brains to get away with it?

Fortunately,

Simone Collins: yeah. He’s trying to like brand himself [01:04:00] as the new oh my God. If, if it doesn’t fit, you have to acquit. Oh, J Simpson,

Malcolm Collins: OJ Simpson. Yeah. Fortunately, chauffeur’s family members appeared to be safe, but the scandal engulfing him only grew wider. I mean, if my wife died, I would not be making jokes like that, even if it was very mysterious or disappeared.

Right? Like I would be quite distraught given that this only happened like a couple years ago for this guy.

Simone Collins: I dunno, it didn’t take OJ a long time. And then he wrote if I did it,

Malcolm Collins: which, but he did do it. So

Simone Collins: that’s why the victim’s family, I think, I don’t know, took.

Malcolm Collins: Sued and got the book. Book and then they renamed it.

I did it. I

Simone Collins: think they just made the if very small.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: For what? It’s

Malcolm Collins: the word, a right wing provocateur. Milo posted recordings and transcripts on social media on a Tuesday chat that raised questions about chauffeur’s, hypocrisy and mental stability in one. Recording a man sounds very much like Chauffeur, supposedly talks about having a drinking problem.

Another purports to feature Sarah Stock, who for the last year has been [01:05:00] a political commentator, street interviewer, debater, and. Contributor for Rift tv. That recording captures part of the conversation between an unnamed man who is not OUIs and a woman as she describes some sort of sexual relationship with chauffeur.

That began at the Conservative Political Action Conference, presumably in 2025. That woman who Polus claims is stock, said that he had sexual. Encounter with Schafer after he offered her Benadryl and shots of alcohol. Prompting her to black out Opolis is a notoriously shifty figure That said the same audio recordings were also sent to me, not from him, and while I have not been able to authenticate them, neither Schofer nor stock has directly denied them.

No, it seems obvious it’s true at this point.

Simone Collins: Call. We gotta try that. It’s like a good time.

Malcolm Collins: Many of the claims about her were false, but she also apologized for her actions. There were mistakes and unwind decisions I have made that I deeply [01:06:00] regret stock wrote, and I apologize to everyone that has been scandalized by this.

She then deleted her ex account entirely, neither. Stock responded to request for comments. Stock could become a right-wing Catholic influencer after converting to the face less than a year ago. So she converted into it. So it doesn’t even explain why she’s horny all the time. That that doesn’t only makes sense for people.

Theory has broken.

Simone Collins: Well, maybe she’s, you know, she’s a Catholic soul.

Malcolm Collins: Gained some prominence online after she delivered a racist rant during a YouTube debate show featuring liberal commentator Sam Cedar. Since then, she has been a fierce opponent of expert sex denouncing fornication docket. Also a familiar figure to false flag readers because of the drama that started last year when she posted a picture of her engagement ring rival injury.

Oh yeah. Between the diamond, far too small, setting off a vicious round of female MAGA infighting.

Simone Collins: Yeah, that was fun. The girls were fighting

Malcolm Collins: over ring size.

Simone Collins: [01:07:00] Yeah, it was great.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: just pearly things. And

Malcolm Collins: I know they did have a small size, but like my takeaway was, but isn’t her husband a conservative, like, like organizer, like he’s not gonna make a lot of money.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. I mean, but the whole point was like, yeah. Some girls were like, oh, that’s embarrassing. Whereas others were like, that’s your whole, like the whole point is the marriage and, and modesty and how dare you criticize the size of the ring. Do I have to say, Malcolm, when you came. I loved, I loved how I felt with the big engagement ring that you gave me.

That was your mom’s earring. Because I remember it once, it got on an elevator and this guy turns to me and he is like, man, your husband loves you. And I was like, wow. So I understand why the debate took place because I didn’t realize until I received. An engagement ring with your mom’s [01:08:00] rock. That was big.

How much people judge you based on your engagement ring? I wish I could still wear it. My fingers weren’t swollen. Sausages,

Malcolm Collins: her fingers are incredibly swollen because of the cold and her width of anyway.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So stock’s alleged affair with chauffeur ended once she got engaged according to the recording.

But on the MAGA Wright, the widely discussed episode has dented both her and chauffeur’s images as strict moralists. In fact, the brewing scandal has provoked what can only be described as an outpouring of shot and ferer. Both for chauffeur and stock, have made many enemies on the right, in part because of their vigorous moral policing.

The moral police are always the people who are, this is what I. What I was saying and what I really mean when somebody’s trying to police the morality of other individuals, I think it’s very likely that they, like we engage in team sports a bit, or I’ll call out people for specific actions, I think are hurtful to the rights, whiter political goals.

Simone Collins: Well, we’re very open about our own debauchery and flaws. I mean, I don’t think anyone thinks we’re trying [01:09:00] to hide something. We’re pretty, are we that demoed? Well, I mean Okay. By some people’s standards, like we’re very pro porn. We’re very, yeah. Like, we’re very open about like enjoying low culture and anime, anime and anime and video games and anime and

Malcolm Collins: video games, porn, Coors Lights the

Simone Collins: worst of

Malcolm Collins: years.

Simone Collins: I mean, well, yeah. I mean, a lot of my point is. Yeah. Well, what I wonder too is, you know, there’s that whole dynamic of, oh, if your partner is suspect that you’re cheating, they’re probably cheating. Is there, is this kind of the same thing where if someone is heavily criticizing workers, I think that’s

a

Malcolm Collins: good way to stop the behavior, to make that assumption going forward, to be like the only people who do this sort of moral policing, or are people who

Simone Collins: are breaking, who like closeted, moral bankrupt, morally bankrupt people.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. I mean, I just think that [01:10:00] like the only person who really like gets angry about this stuff and, and edges on this stuff is people who have done it in the past, you know?

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, I, well, I’m trying to think of the

Malcolm Collins: the people who’ve freaked out about, like, you using IVF or the people who have had secret abortions, right?

Like, it’s always like, whatever you’re doing, but in some way like

Simone Collins: twisted and darker. Well, no, there’s, there’s different, so there, there are people who criticize IVF and who we’ve had fantastic IVF debates about, but then we’re like. Like, that’s sinful. Like do it, but it’s sinful. And I don’t think that they’re secretly like, no, don’t think they’re,

Malcolm Collins: because

Simone Collins: they’re not.

I’m trying to think too about like people who give a lot of what I would say is like etiquette or moral advice and who I genuinely believe stick to it. Like I’m thinking about the Emily. Books that I love so much. Well, this is the thing, moral

Malcolm Collins: advice that is emotionally charged or moral policing that is emotionally charged comes from a plea of insecurity.

There’s no

Simone Collins: reason. Yeah, yeah. When it’s, but it, when it’s logically driven, I think when people are like, Hey, you know, it’s, it’s, I, it’s optimal to do this [01:11:00] because X reason I think then you can kind of trust them. Whereas if someone’s like, look at this disgusting cow, like there’s, there’s something.

There. Yeah. Maybe that’s a good thing. Yeah. Ooh, you know what, another example of this that I see a lot is actually with diet shaming. The, the people that I see online, for example, who have YouTube channels where they do a lot of diet shaming. Are themselves very clearly disordered in their eating and like not, and closeted about it.

So like they themselves have their own like, healthy eating programs and it’s very clear that they’re like incredibly disordered in their, like they both body dysmorphia and very like, poorly handled eating problems. And then they like to go on and critique other people’s things and there’s a whole circle of that.

So I think that’s, yeah, that’s it. When it’s, when it’s emotionally charged, it’s, there’s a red flag.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: like I’m very open about the fact that I’m a functional anorexic and I have zero qualms about it.

Malcolm Collins: Much of the [01:12:00] criticism that has been directed at the PEAR has centered on the fact that stock apparently entered into a sexual relationship with a married man right before she decided to have her own marriage.

Blessed by the Pope.

Simone Collins: Why would you, wouldn’t you like, can you imagine how miserable you’d be having your marriage? Blessed by the Pope Having done all that though. Or maybe not because you just ask for forgiveness

Malcolm Collins: if you don’t believe any of it and you can ask for forgiveness or it

Simone Collins: makes for a really good confessional session, you know what I mean?

Malcolm Collins: The priest is like, I can only imagine some like Catholic priest, like, wow, like

Simone Collins: clap, clap, clap.

Malcolm Collins: Like, you are not good at this.

Simone Collins: I don’t know. I could actually, I could model a mindset. Being Catholic, this is not understanding Catholicism very well. Maybe not. ‘cause I, I had a, a college crush on a guy who became a Catholic priest and would ask him a lot of questions about Catholicism as an excuse to talk to him.

And so [01:13:00] maybe I know more about Catholicism than I wanna admit to myself. But I could see a world in which you kind of want something good to bring to confession. Because otherwise the drama of your life gets very boring and like the whole Catholic thing is like the struggle. To become pure and good and clean.

You know, like the whole point is climbing up did not cheat on your husband right

Malcolm Collins: before your marriage is blessed by

Simone Collins: well, but like, where’s the narrative in that? Where’s the confession? Where’s the redemption? Like, it’s all about the hero’s journey, but just again and again and again. And she, you’re not gonna get a hero’s journey if you haven’t.

Sinned. So having a good sin and a good thing to take to confessional and a good redemption arc. So like, maybe that’s what that is all isn’t, I have noticed that Catholics really like stories,

Malcolm Collins: narrative arcs, you

Simone Collins: know? Yeah. So yeah, you need a redemption arc. So sin is okay because you, you can’t really have a redemption arc without it.

Like where’s the suffering? Where’s the toil if you’re just born a saint? Right? And then those who are saints, who just are amazing, go outta their [01:14:00] way. To become martyrs because how else are they gonna go through their suffering of re redemption arc, if not like to be martyrs. Right? So maybe that’s kind of the thing, the thing of,

Malcolm Collins: and I point out when people are like, oh, you criticize people on your show as well?

No, when we criticize people, it’s over strategy. It’s over like. I think that the way that, for example, Bannon has acted in the past was very deleterious to the wider conservative movement, or Ben Shapiro has acted, is deleterious to the wider conservative movement in his individual goals. That’s different from being like, I think Ben Shapiro.

Has a crush on his sister or something. Right. Which a lot of people do. Right. You know, they’re, they’ll say something like that, which is just like a personal, you know, attack or I think that, you know, X person isn’t being chased enough. Right. I, I don’t think so yeah. Anyway, to continue. The TRA stuff is performative Bs and declared MAGA Influencer Emily saves America who had clashed with stock in the diamond sized debate.[01:15:00]

SD Lee Watson Chauffeur’s, former Blaze co-host, who sued the company over his alleged harassment, posted a picture of the frog character peeking through the blind. RIF TV personalities dropped their affiliations with the site listed on their X Accounts. Even an Indian account on X dredged up an old attack chauffeur made on the Hindu, God.

Vishnu declaring that his current S ScandAll vindicated the Hindu pantheon. What? Never on Vishnu. Again, it declared,

Simone Collins: oh my God.

Malcolm Collins: Well apparently he’s like anti-Indian. And yet some people were likely, well, this is what I see. Nobody’s really that anti-Indian like. This, the thing is what, sorry, what I mean to say is people can hate Indians taking tech jobs, you know what I mean?

And that they have discriminatory hiring practices Okay. Against non Indians. And those are real and endemic problems in the tech industry. But the problem is, is anyone who’s been personally affected by those issues [01:16:00] also likely has Indian friends. And it’s really hard to like actually hate an ethnicity if you have a number of friends from that ethnicity.

So,

Simone Collins: I don’t know though, when we posted our, our episode about the, the scary demography of India as a country, people, especially Canadians. Oh, they mad. They mad at the Indian. They mad

at,

Malcolm Collins: well, maybe, maybe the immigration levels in Canada. But the immigration levels in Canada have gotten to a level where it’s I mean not just with Indians, but, but partially with Indians.

It is designed to replace the existing population because they, they have such slow fertility rates and they really need to keep the inflow coming in for, for the economic pyramid that is Canada to stay afloat. Well, from the perspective of the politicians at this point,

Simone Collins: we just need to lean more heavily on made, I don’t know what to say.

Malcolm Collins: And what they need is for Alberta to break off and join the us.

Simone Collins: Yeah, come over here.

Malcolm Collins: Let’s, how Canada gets up, gets through without its oil. We’d love to have you guys.

Simone Collins: [01:17:00] The water’s fine. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Not even a year ago at a conservative conference. He did, he did my friend four times in one night. Unprotected while he was married at Walker.

Said at the time. Oh, what? Okay, sorry, I missed this part. And yet some people likely not terribly surprised that Chauffeur was involved in a scandal like this. Back in 2020, sassy right-wing influencer, Christopher Walker accused chauffeur of cheating on his wife at a Republican event, not even a year ago at a conservative conference.

He did my friend, four times in one night, unprotected while he was married. Geez, man, at a conservative conference too, so

Simone Collins: I thought four times in one night it, no, that’s just one night that

Malcolm Collins: it’s too much effort too.

Simone Collins: No, but like, no, I just feel like saying four times, it’s like, no, you’re. What are you

Malcolm Collins: saying?

What means? He was very enthusiastic about the whole thing. Chauffeur had also made numerous strange thirst trap style photos in [01:18:00] recent months. In a November, Instagram post captioned with a message about how much he loved his family. The photo showed him smoking an old timey pipe while wearing an Orthodox Christian Cross, but this was immediately followed by a street.

Steamy shirtless selfie that cut off right above his groin. I’ll spare you the actual image. What?

Simone Collins: Oh, thanks.

Malcolm Collins: I mean this, this, to go to a conservative conference to have this persona and then she shows that the whole thing is just completely fake for him. Everything I

Simone Collins: know. I feel like we’re missing out on something with conservative conferences.

‘cause I also hear about all the, like the, the spike in, gay dating app activity when there’s a conservative, do you think I should go to conservative conferences to hook up with other women? Is that what you’re saying? That’s why I find your sister wise. Well, no, it just seems like everyone’s like hooking up with other women and men are hooking up with men too.

It’s just like men are just swimming in whatever it is they wanna swim in. It’s like, okay, like let’s, let’s go to the, the [01:19:00] sex con, I mean conservative conference. And something’s going on. I don’t know what, but like.

Malcolm Collins: I have been to conservative conferences and I have never been like, this is a great place to hook up.

I’m always like, I gotta network and get on the next big show.

Simone Collins: Well, we, we clearly missed it. I mean, I think this is one of those things where you have to be connected and it’s all about the after parties and it’s not. You know,

Malcolm Collins: well, I mean, yeah, we’re that, this is the thing, our conservative sphere, when I go to the conservative conferences, I’m like, who do, who do I wanna meet up with?

It’s like Curtis, right? Like he’s always fun to chat with at the conferences. He’s always got some fun thing going on. And and, and Curtis Jarvin is not exactly the crazy after party. I, I mean, I’m sure he gets invited

Simone Collins: to, that’s what you think. We just don’t wanna stay up that late.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Oh yeah.

We were invited to a party at like eight. You and I would be like f that

Simone Collins: we’ve seen him at parties at night and then he’s just getting warmed up and we’re like, goodbye,

Malcolm Collins: goodbye,

Simone Collins: [01:20:00] sleep. Now.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I, I went late,

Simone Collins: the

Malcolm Collins: last conservative event until like a club or something, and that’s where I met. Lord Miles.

Lord Miles Was there,

Simone Collins: was that at the Vegas one or the, my, no,

Malcolm Collins: this is the London one.

Simone Collins: Oh, okay.

Malcolm Collins: God. Are we gonna go to conservative conference? You that

Simone Collins: Lord Miles. I forgot that. Damn. Okay.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, to continue. Chauffeur’s downfall isn’t just a personal Shakespearean tragedy, a modern adaptation set to the most idiotic corner of the online hype world.

It adds fodders to the right’s ongoing Civil War Opolis, who plays a sort of my T Trier role in MAGA media. H hates white nationalist podcaster, Nick Fuentes. In the hierarchy of the online right chauffeur is a restless vassal of the far more successful Fuentes, meaning Yoli can undermine Fuentes by going after chauffeur.

No surprise in than in one of the recordings Yoli release. There’s discussion about how Chauffeur quietly talks so much. S-A-H-I-T [01:21:00] about Fuentes out of envy. But the biggest damage may have been inflicted on the online trad brand as a whole conservative podcaster. Ali Buckley complained that the affair demonstrated that women posing as trad wives had become a fetish for right wing men.

Far right commentator Verium, who recently cut ties with chauffeur after being exposed himself for making posts years ago about being gay. Summed it up. It’s all BS he said about the trad lifestyle.

Simone Collins: Ally best. Dang.

Malcolm Collins: Dang. But this is the whole Fuentes sphere. It’s, I mean, as I said, Fuentes is thing, is a larp anyway, and, and like it’s actual lifestyle.

I’ve heard it’s pretty debauched. Like

Simone Collins: I just love that. Milo Anolis is so back. He’s just like dishing all this dirt on

Malcolm Collins: people. Oh absolutely. We gotta, we gotta recruit Milo

Simone Collins: an

Malcolm Collins: for the team

Simone Collins: up Pat fights. I funny, I,

Malcolm Collins: we gotta get Milo Anolis on our side of the conservative movement.

One of our super fans recently asked me, , who is my favorite Catholic [01:22:00] influencer, and I had totally blinked on this because I haven’t watched his stuff in a while, but easily the answer would be Milo.

Malcolm Collins: Like,

Simone Collins: I was just so sad when I heard that he like, wasn’t gay anymore.

‘cause I have this weird bias and I was like, well that means he’s not gonna be fun anymore. I like, I don’t know why I thought that. It’s not like when you choose to not indulge in a certain like element of your sexuality that you just. Cease to be everything else with your personality. But I just thought that, and I was just, I can’t express the relief I felt when it turned out that, no, he’s still hilarious, catty articulate.

Malcolm Collins: But he like disappeared from, I used to love his content. He did. I was so sad too. Yeah. And no, he’s just. He was, he had, this is the thing we’re recently talking with our superfans about, like we do like meetups about like why Fuentes is as popular as he is. And one of the things I said is, it’s one of the big reasons.

It’s probably just that he seems to be happy when he talks about like, well, your friend of

Simone Collins: Fuentes, not Miley and Novelist.

Malcolm Collins: No, I seems

Simone Collins: happy too,

Malcolm Collins: but I was gonna say. Opolis is the [01:23:00] only other conservative that seems as happy as Fuentes.

Simone Collins: Yeah,

Malcolm Collins: he’s in flat. I mean, he’s in his like, controversial. And I think he just did the Nick Fuentes dick much better than Fuentes ever did.

He was like smarter and better at debating. So I’d love to see him get back into the, the game. I mean, I think especially given that his arc now, you know, he actually, you know, went through something and, and challenged a mainstream narrative, which it’s like being same sex attractive. If that’s something you have to make a lifestyle.

So that’d be fun to see. But the broader thing here, and I think you see this is in the online Civil War, I think a lot of people can’t see what is very apparent to a lot of the online, right? Is that the other side, the moralizing side, they’re all faking it. They’re, they’re. Generally Grifters who are saying what they’re saying for the fame.

Mm-hmm. Like, but recently Nick Fuentes has come out and he is like, I love Jeffrey Epstein. Right. So you gotta understand if you think like, oh, Hitler’s good because Nick Fuentes said Hitler is good. He liked [01:24:00] Hitler in the same way. He liked Jeffrey Epstein. Okay. Like, these are equivalent figures to him.

Right. And you gotta realize, oh, oh, maybe he’s just saying whatever he thinks is the most shocking thing he can say is, and he doesn’t have a coherent, larger ideology in the, because there’s no reason to like ge to think Jeffrey Epstein is cool. Like,

Simone Collins: well, where it starts to fall apart is when it’s Hitler and Stalin and Jeffrey Epstein, if you liked.

One or multiple of them. For their

Malcolm Collins: For.

Simone Collins: Yeah. However you them like the odd, controversial all of for their merits. Yeah. And then also just not also simultaneously appreciate other people who are more broadly lauded for their merits shows. A pattern. I just

Malcolm Collins: wish that the mob was better or could more quickly discern when somebody is fake like this, because I think it’s often pretty obvious if the guy got fired for [01:25:00] groping his coworker.

He’s not a traditional family man.

Simone Collins: I don’t think people care about what’s true or fake. I think they care about how people make them feel.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, that’s true.

Simone Collins: So it doesn’t matter. This guy managed to make people feel a certain way. And I think one of the reasons why a lot of these people cast shade is because other people enjoy seeing that happen.

Mild anolis cast shade because people enjoy watching him do it, and he does it really well. So. I, I, it. That’s not, I don’t think that’s the question. I think that the more important question is how can you do this? Even if you’re disingenuous in a way that is sustainable, and maybe part of it involves having to occasionally reinvent yourself like Milo Opolis did.

Mm-hmm. [01:26:00] I think this guy kind of did that when he went from. Groping employees to touting his tra dad lifestyle, and now he’s gonna go for some new redemption arc of, I’ve recovered from, I mean, look at how Jordan Peterson did that. Oh, and I’m recovering from addiction. It’s just that, that these various public figures are able to make these recoveries with varying degrees of success.

Not everyone is able to pull it off. So you can be as fake as you wanna be. It’s more a question of how you manage the narrative and how that narrative makes people feel, and how entertaining it is for people to watch. That makes a lot of sense. You can see this with totally nonpolitical figures as well who show up in various like, you know, snark, YouTube history channels, you know, like from.

Or random YouTubers who have [01:27:00] weird, tragic upbringings as Weeb stars too. I don’t know.

Malcolm Collins: I just, I even, my, the funny thing about me is, is if I made a living moralizing about sexual values and I was at a conservative conference, it’s not even out of morality. I wouldn’t sleep with a random woman there. I wouldn’t do it because I’d be too scared about hurting my career.

Like the, the level of just, oh. Foolishness on display here? Like does he have any self-control?

Simone Collins: I think no. Part of it’s though,

sexuality and sexual impulses are strange things. It’s almost like one of those it’s like a demon that only exists if you give it power and if you believe in it. Mm-hmm. Like if you just. Stop caring about sex, which of course for many [01:28:00] easier said than done, but like it, okay. Look at very conservative Islamic societies, right?

Or even historical societies in, in, in many Western countries. There’s this, you know, collective belief that, oh, like if a woman is uncovered, I won’t be able to control myself. Like of course I will. RAPE her right? Like how I, of it was her fault, you know, she, her, me, I saw her face. And then people do it, right?

Like, but you can’t have that, that, they, they need each other. That, that, that very conservative approach to sexuality and morality is needed. Like, it, it, it, it can’t be justified if you don’t also have this uncontrollable urge. And I think you can’t be this kind of, that’s a really good point, moralizer, if you’re not also like seeing yourself and genuinely believing that you’re constantly tempted because why else would you stand?[01:29:00]

From the high hill of social media and scream out to your followers how important it is to have these values and restrain yourself. Restrain yourself from what I mean for us, it’s like, well, I don’t care. You know, so we don’t need to talk about it ‘cause it’s not a struggle. You need it to be a struggle.

So of course they’re gonna slip because.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, and also if, if, if you’re going out there and he is actually following the rules on something like porn, right? The whole not sleeping with random people is gonna be a lot harder thing. Like another guy might just be like, oh, I’m gonna go back, you know, and goon or something like that.

And he’s like, oh, here’s a, that’s not an option for me, so I’m gonna use a real girl as my owning hole.

Simone Collins: It’s so gross that people live that way. I don’t involve someone else in your non ative sexual activity. I’m, I’m seeing right

Malcolm Collins: now if he, if he had anti-porn

Simone Collins: views. ‘cause yeah, that frigging explains it for me.

He did. [01:30:00] So many people have anti-porn views and I, I only respect a very small segment of them. That, that also believe that non ative sex is a sin. Like I will respect your, your anti-porn views if. That’s what you hold. If you are only having unprotected sex with your spouse, then go back. And you

Malcolm Collins: note here, when we talk about porn versus anti porn, I’m not talking about porn involving real women.

I am, I am not for that.

Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Because that has negative externalities for the women involved.

Simone Collins: Oh, human, non-synthetic porn.

Malcolm Collins: But like AI porn and stuff like that, I don’t, I don’t see what the negative so yeah, he was anti-porn on multiple instances across social media. He was,

Simone Collins: of course he was.

Malcolm Collins: Of course he was.

Simone Collins: That really feels to me so disingenuous when many people talk about it though. ‘cause it just seems like one of those things that you say, because you know people are gonna be like, yeah, like. It. It’s almost like talking [01:31:00] about the weather in certain circles. Like, man, it’s so cold. I just hate the cold. And everyone’s like, yeah, I hate the cold.

This sucks. Or like, oh, it’s too hot. I’m sweating. Like a what? What sweats A lot. I was gonna say like a horse. Do horses sweat. I you pee like a race horse. You sweat like a pig. Do pigs sweat though, never. Seemed a sweaty pig. Anyway I, yeah, I just, I, I actually think that a lot of people haven’t put really any thought into it, and they may not consume a.

What they consider to be erotic material themselves, especially if they’re women because they read romance and novels and they’re like, I’m just reading literature. It’s fine. I, I’m an

Malcolm Collins: It’s just 50 shades of gray.

Simone Collins: Yes

Malcolm Collins: men and they’re degenerate vanilla. [01:32:00]

Simone Collins: How dare these men read this? I’m gonna read.

Malcolm Collins: No. I love it when women are like, I just watch books about monster effing, but how dare these men watch porn or women are being degraded.

Simone Collins: No, don’t you understand Malcolm, that morning Glory Milking Farm is an anti-capitalist scream. The great intellectual work of our time. God,

Malcolm Collins: you’re amazing.

Simone Collins: Thank you, Malcolm. I love you very much. Welcome. You are fantastic. I don’t know if you saw this morning, Andy was so sweet when I was kneeling down and I was still feeding Tex when I was checking on her, and then she just wants to stand close to me and hold t bottle and feed him.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And help with feeding

Simone Collins: my Turkey.

Malcolm Collins: She knows what’s up. I came to me, he said anyway, I’ll, I’ll say it later.

Simone Collins: Okay. I love these noodles.

Malcolm Collins: I love you, Simon.

Simone Collins: I love you.

Malcolm Collins: Wonderful day.

Simone Collins: You too.

Malcolm Collins: All right. So did I, I blow your [01:33:00] mind. Was that episode

Simone Collins: Yeah, that was

Malcolm Collins: Jeffrey Epstein

Simone Collins: Fricking incredible.

Malcolm Collins: I, no one else found that evidence. I was like, or why? No one else is pointing at that. And they’re all pointing at this like, obviously like doctored images and stuff.

Simone Collins: I, part of me wonders if people involved with the Epstein file releases intentionally waited until AI got, especially generative AI got further along until releasing more files.

Because at this point people are having such a crisis of reality. In terms of what’s real and what’s not. And there are so many AI fakes mixed in with everything that’s being released where people are kind of not caring anymore and they’re like, I don’t know what’s real anymore, so I’m just overloaded and I don’t care.

Well, and I think it does dampen that

Malcolm Collins: well, is creators like nuts and asthma gold, who otherwise, you know, I respect and I see as goals for like our channel. They don’t even Google before they present something. Is this a provably doctored image?

Simone Collins: Well, [01:34:00] you know, the views they, I, I think they view this more as entertainment value and not as, as news reporting.

And then if we pretend to be like, I’m going to give you the facts, we, we try, like we, what we’re doing in our channel is you and I as husband and wife are talking through things that we find interesting and genuinely trying to figure out what we think of reality. So we’re a little bit more focused on trying to get to at least what we want to conclude as our going.

Reality at for any the hypothesis

Malcolm Collins: for

Simone Collins: reality.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Because that’s, but Aspen Gold, and he’s very clear about this is all about the entertainment value. And you know, he’s talked about this in the context of, for example, the Johnny Depp and, and Amber Herd trial where he was just like, I, I farmed that for days.

Like it was great. It wasn’t about truth, it wasn’t about substance. It wasn’t about figuring out something about the world. It was about watching the dumpster fire burn. And you can also see this in his ice coverage. I respect that. And I, I don’t expect him to give me [01:35:00] accurate information. I expect him to give me amusing reactions to things.

And I’m 100% here for it. I love them.

Malcolm Collins: Alright, well we’re gonna do a little bit of that today. Okay. Watching the world Burn.

Simone Collins: Good.

Speaker 6: What happens if he sees the dinosaurs? He like finds all them, type them all. Will he gobble them up? Ooh, I think I have a greater idea, but Titan, you are a shark princess. What if you gobble them up? Oh, no, Titan. Yeah. Do you eat dinosaurs? Yeah, I think I got.

Speaker 7: That makes sense. That makes sense. And so you’ve gotta build the paddock to protect them from yourself. Right?

I have So my mind,

I have to be in, oh no, the T-Rex is looking hungry. [01:36:00] I have set by the mind. Hi them. What are you doing to help avian?

I’m gonna make watch power and my fence so nobody see the dinosaurs. Oh,

is gonna helicopter coming to destroy. Okay. Are the helicopter’s gonna destroy the T-Rex? Yeah, we just made towards these T-Rex two.

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