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Ramit Sethi of I Will Teach You To Be Rich talks to Tania and Mike who are in their 50s, married 21 years, and earning over $225,000 a year. By most measures, they should be fine. But they’ve been trapped in the same debt cycle for two decades. Cashing out 401(k)s, borrowing from family, and digging themselves out only to fall right back in. Again and again.

When Ramit opens their Conscious Spending Plan, the numbers are genuinely shocking. Fixed costs at 155%. Savings at 0%. Guilt-free spending at -73%. They are spending more than they make every single month and they have barely one month of savings to show for it. But the money isn’t even the most revealing part of this episode. Ramit works through the psychology behind the cycle, the “dreamer” pattern that keeps pulling them back in, and what it’s actually going to take for them to change together.

In this episode we uncover:

• A $228K income with 155% fixed costs… How does that even happen?

• The parent-child dynamic Ramit identifies and why both of them are miserable because of it

• Mike’s $23,000 tractor purchase and the pattern behind it

• Why Tania has been a “money transcriptionist” instead of a money manager

• The “dreamer” trap: Believing the next thing will finally fix everything

• How Mike’s upbringing shaped his complete shutdown around money

• What real money conversations between couples actually look like

• The follow-up update from Tania and Mike

Chapters: (00:00:00) Introduction

(00:07:04) Looking at the numbers: $228K income, 155% fixed costs

(00:11:41) "I've never talked about feelings, we've been married 21 years"

(00:30:35) The tractor: how every big purchase actually happens

(00:43:26) Cashing out retirement AGAIN!

(00:47:14) The dreamer pattern: why the next thing never fixes anything

(00:53:46) Michael's moment: "I don't know how to talk about money. It scares me."

(01:07:56) Ramit walks through their house: where did all the money go?(01:16:07) The alter ego exercise: imagining a different life

(01:31:27) Tanya's moment: "I'm the hero. I always say yes."

(01:34:05) Ramit draws the caricature

(02:01:48) Follow-ups

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Has your partner recently been obsessed with investing? Maybe not telling you what they're doing with your shared money? If so, I'd like to talk. Apply to be coached for free on this podcast at iwt.com/apply