Fees, Interchange, and Payment Economics

Stewart Alsop interviews Tomas Yu, CEO and founder of Turn-On Financial Technologies, on this episode of the Crazy Wisdom Podcast. They explore how Yu's company is revolutionizing the closed-loop payment ecosystem by creating a universal float system that allows gift card credits to be used across multiple merchants rather than being locked to a single business like Starbucks. The conversation covers the complexities of fintech regulation, the differences between open and closed loop payment systems, and Yu's unique background that combines Korean martial arts discipline with Mexican polo culture. They also dive into Yu's passion for polo, discussing the intimate relationship between rider and horse, the sport's elitist tendencies in different regions, and his efforts to build polo communities from El Paso to New Mexico. Find Tomas on LinkedIn under Tommy (TJ) Alvarez.

Timestamps

00:00 Introduction to TurnOn Technologies
02:45 Understanding Float and Its Implications
05:45 Decentralized Gift Card System
08:39 Navigating the FinTech Landscape
11:19 The Role of Merchants and Consumers
14:15 Challenges in the Gift Card Market
17:26 The Future of Payment Systems
23:12 Understanding Payment Systems: Stripe and POS
26:47 Regulatory Landscape: KYC and AML in Payments
27:55 The Impact of Economic Conditions on Financial Systems
36:39 Transitioning from Industrial to Information Age Finance
38:18 Curiosity and Resourcefulness in the Information Age
45:09 Social Media and the Dynamics of Attention
46:26 From Restaurant to Polo: A Journey of Mentorship
49:50 The Thrill of Polo: Learning and Obsession
54:53 Building a Team: Breaking Elitism in Polo
01:00:29 The Unique Bond: Understanding the Horse-Rider Relationship
01:05:21 Polo Horses: Choosing the Right Breed for the Game

Key Insights

1. Turn-On Technologies is revolutionizing payment systems through behavioral finance by creating a decentralized "float" system. Unlike traditional gift cards that lock customers into single merchants like Starbucks, Turn-On allows universal credit that works across their entire merchant ecosystem. This addresses the massive gift card market where companies like Starbucks hold billions in customer funds that can only be used at their locations.
2. The financial industry operates on an exclusionary "closed loop" versus "open loop" system that creates significant friction and fees. Closed loop systems keep money within specific ecosystems without conversion to cash, while open loop systems allow cash withdrawal but trigger heavy regulation. Every transaction through traditional payment processors like Stripe can cost merchants 3-8% in fees, representing a massive burden on businesses.
3. Point-of-sale systems function as the financial bloodstream and credit scoring mechanism for businesses. These systems track all card transactions and serve as the primary data source for merchant lending decisions. The gap between POS records and bank deposits reveals cash transactions that businesses may not be reporting, making POS data crucial for assessing business creditworthiness and loan risk.
4. Traditional FinTech professionals often miss obvious opportunities due to ego and institutional thinking. Yu encountered resistance from established FinTech experts who initially dismissed his gift card-focused approach, despite the trillion-dollar market size. The financial industry's complexity is sometimes artificially maintained to exclude outsiders rather than serve genuine regulatory purposes.
5. The information age is creating a fundamental divide between curious, resourceful individuals and those stuck in credentialist systems. With AI and LLMs amplifying human capability, people who ask the right questions and maintain curiosity will become exponentially more effective. Meanwhile, those relying on traditional credentials without underlying curiosity will fall further behind, creating unprecedented economic and social divergence.
6. Polo serves as a powerful business metaphor and relationship-building tool that mirrors modern entrepreneurial challenges. Like mixed martial arts evolved from testing individual disciplines, business success now requires being competent across multiple areas rather than excelling in just one specialty. The sport also creates unique networking opportunities and teaches valuable lessons about partnership between human and animal.
7. International financial systems reveal how governments use complexity and capital controls to maintain power over citizens. Yu's observations about Argentina's financial restrictions and the prevalence of cash economies in Latin America illustrate how regulatory complexity often serves political rather than protective purposes, creating opportunities for alternative financial systems that provide genuine value to users.