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Queen Elizabeth is an important cultural mascot in a way that Americans can’t understand and her death will have more implications for Great Britain and the world than simply who will take over the monarchy.

That’s according to Ian Dunt, columnist at the ‘i’ newspaper and host of the podcasts, Oh God, What Now? and Origin Story, who tells hosts Molly Jong-Fast and Andy Levy on this episode of political podcast The New Abnormal that the country faces multiple crises as it deals with the queen’s death. Also on the podcast Douglas Rushkoff, author of the new book, Survival of the Richest: Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires, describes his experience talking to some very rich people about the “event.” 

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