Succession Tension and Staying Relevant

The Learning Leader Show With Ryan Hawk

Episode #263: Charlie McMahan - How To Build A Tribe From 50 To 5,000

Charlie McMahan has been the Lead Pastor of SouthBrook Church since 1992. He is driven by a deep concern for those who may feel like they don't belong in a church and a sincere hope that anyone who struggles with faith can end up with a life that looks like the life of Jesus. He is focused on developing future leaders and spends many hours a week mentoring others (including me!).

Charlie has led SouthBrook from a small church that originally met in an elementary school to now hosting more than 5,000 members per weekend. He has a deep understanding for how to build a loyal tribe of people.

The Learning Leader Show

"The Process: Teaser, Tension, Truth, Take Home, Together."

Show Notes:

• Sustaining excellence:
  • Integrated people - They aren't chasing a bunch of different things
  • Consolidated on the self mission
  • Focused - Not distracted
• Family
  • Charlie's dad was gone 25 days a month (he later found out he was in the CIA)
  • The reason he turns down big opportunities is because he doesn't want to travel and wants to be with his family
  • Levels of communication with kids
    • Don't spend money on stuff, spend money on experiences -- Their place is Hilton Head
• Process for Charlie's performances (his speeches/sermons)
  • The word entertainment means "To hold people's attention"
• The Process:
  • Teaser - Something that grabs you
  • Tension - The inductive part of speaking that you have to do today. So the listeners know "this is important." If you don't do this, people will leave
  • Truth
  • Take Home - The practical "do"
  • Together - "Isn't this the kind of person we want to be?"
• Most preachers were trained to be deductive... You can't do that now. You need to help them draw their own conclusions.
• Finding a way to weave stories and science together
• The Medici Effect - The renaissance happened because seemingly disconnected entities were connected.
• "I'm always figuring out how disconnected entities connect"
• "The upside of stress"
  • "Emotions are like waves. You can't choose which ones come, but you can choose which to ride."
  • Choose to embrace stress, it can have a positive impact on you
• Create a habit of how you look at life:
  • How long did it take you to put this message together? "30 hours and a lifetime."
• The intersection of the reality of the struggles with Charlie's kids and applying it to the lives of the people you serve
• What is it like to be the children of someone as successful as Charlie?
  • "Our kids had so much pressure on them. We didn't appreciate how much it was."
    • "The Famous Father Syndrome" - Kids choose to differentiate from their parents because they can't win that game
  • Advice give to parents:
    • "When you walk in the room, the temperature will go up for them. Kids need stress to grow."
    • "The stress free life is the dying life"
    • "When we walked in the room, the temperature went way up for my kids. The same heat that drove me, burned them." --> "Most parenting things you learn 5 minutes too late"
    • PLAY - Personality type, Learning style, Ability level, Yes factor -- "You don't have to cave under the pressure. It doesn't have to destroy you"
• Growing a church from 50 people to 5,000 per weekend. How?
  • Has to be a commitment to excellence that is YOU -- Has to be in ALL areas of your life. "Excellence is a habit."
    • "Excellence is expressing my worth... Ennobling others because I care. Perfectionism is trying to earn my worth by being perfect... And that is dangerous." Be careful to not think, "I have to be perfect or I"m not worth anything."
    • "Maturity is way underrated"
    • "Excellence comes out of peace. In excellence the process is as much of importance as the product."
    • "I don't have grammatical errors on the manuscript that nobody else ever sees."
    • "Excellence is the right people doing the right things for the right reasons."
    • "The right motivations are not so compulsive."
    • "The constant burden of leadership is the constant interception of entropy."
      • "There is constant gravitational pull to become like everyone else."
    • "Our church is for someone who doesn't like church." Why? "Because I didn't like church."
    • How do you handle the immense value of YOU as the leader? And the success moving forward without you?
      • "We're constantly in process of finding the next leader." "When you've been some place a long time, you become in the way."
        • Level 5 leader helps a place be better after they are gone
• How to build a tribe?
  • Max DuPree - What are your unique tribal speaks?
    • The 5 S's of SouthBrook:
      • Solitude, Scripture, Service, Support, Significant Events
  • "A Tribe is where story and strategy meet."
• What is it like the minute before you go on stage?
  • "I used to panic. It took me 10 years to get over the "what am I doing!?"
  • "Leading is so presumptuous."
  • "I've never stepped behind a microphone where I didn't believe that I could save people's lives. I truly believe every word I'm saying."
  • "I can't wait to share this."
  • "I didn't think about public speaking until I had to give a three minute speech my junior year in college. Something happened at that speech. People leaned in."
  • "Hitting the 10,000 hour mark has helped me. It's easier to prepare. I'm a huge believer in putting in the time."

• Charlie writes 3,500 words per week. Then put on the iPad and have it while on stage... "I memorize that by Friday."
• "I'm a master at self condemnation."
• Why be so critical of yourself?
  • "It can be a safety mechanism. If we self criticize, we won't get as much criticism. And it does connect with people."
• Developing future leaders
  • "The test of leadership is the ability to reproduce yourself in others... The good parts of yourself that should be reproduced."
  • "The path from direction to delegation"
  • "If I don't succeed in succession, then I will have failed."
  • "You can't be a farmer, you have to be a rancher who raises up other farmers."
• Ron Howard and Sam Jones -- Why Wall Street leaders hire former athletes?
  • "We like to hire athletes because they lose so much. They are forced to respond to failure."
• "I lose every day. I'm not good at having an accurate understanding of myself. I need people around me."
• "I was a world class (basketball) shooter. I shot 96% from the free throw line."
• Charlie was national player of the year.
• "Grit is the only talent. Those tough moments are the character builders."
• Charlie's biggest challenge today? -- "Figuring out a way to build a succession plan and not leave too soon. I live in that tension everyday."
• "When I watch myself speak, I don't think it's very good."
• The importance of hobbies
• How does it take a toll on your when you can't please everybody?
  • "Leadership is the art of disappointing people at a rate they can handle. You cannot sustain trying to please everyone. "
• The importance of continued growth and having an apprentice
  • PB&J
    • Have to have people ahead of you, stretch you, challenge you
    • Need people alongside you, your peers, in it together, consolidate over shared stories
    • We grow most when we have people to teach. To pour in to...
• "Writing makes a person exact. If it's hazy in the podium, it will be foggy in the chair."
• "If you can't listen, you can't lead."
• "There is no other leader than The Learning Leader."
• Use the "Get To Know You Document"

"If you don't keep growing, you will become irrelevant."

Social Media:

• Follow Charlie on Twitter: @CharlieBMcMahan
• Connect with me on LinkedIn
• Join our Facebook Group: The Learning Leader Community
• To Follow Me on Twitter: @RyanHawk12

More Learning:

Episode 078: Kat Cole – From Hooters Waitress To President of Cinnabon

Episode 216: Jim Collins -- How To Go From Good To Great

Episode 179: How To Sustain Excellence - The Best Answers From 178 Questions

Episode 234: Jocko Willink -- Why Discipline Equals Freedom