Reassessing structure versus freedom

Omid Safi and mythology expert Joshua Michael Schrei explore the shared threads of spiritual traditions, discussing ecstasy, discernment, and the courage to cultivate a heart that becomes a refuge for others.

This episode was originally recorded for The Emerald, a podcast that explores the human experience through a vibrant lens of myth, story, and imagination. Brought to life through the wise, wild, and humorous vision of Joshua Michael Schrei — a teacher and lifelong student of the cosmologies and mythologies of the world — the podcast draws from a deep well of poetry, lore, and mythos to challenge conventional narratives on politics and public discourse, meditation and mindfulness, art, science, literature, and more. Subscribe to The Emerald on your favorite podcast app for more conversations like this!

In this episode, Omid and Joshua navigate:

• The connecting thread between different faith traditions
• The mythic, the ecstatic, and the embodied
• Making contact with the mystery
• Building spiritual rhythm through daily practice
• Real friendship: holding up the mirror to one another
• Staying consciously open but maintaining wise boundaries
• Spiritual naivety, working on discernment, and being aware of self-justification  
• Political activism and taking accountability for our own roles
• Making our hearts a garden in which others can seek shelter

About Joshua Michael Schrei:

Josh Schrei is a podcaster, myth teller, teacher, and a lifelong student of the cosmologies and mythologies of the world—in particular the Indian subcontinent.  Throughout a lifetime of teaching, study, meditation, and yogic practice, wilderness immersion, art, music, and public speaking, Josh has sought to navigate the living, animate space of the imagination and advocate for a world that prioritizes imaginative vision. Josh has taught intensive courses in mythology and somatic disciplines for more than 20 years. Keep up with Joshua on his website and stay tuned for fresh episodes of The Emerald.

"When we re-find that ecstatic thread, then we find that thread unifies so many things that we once thought were disparate. The divine has always been accessed musically, through story, through art, in so many different ways, through mythic study. All of this is a different way of getting out of agitated consciousness and into a place where we can find that ecstatic experience."  –Joshua Michael Schrei

About Omid Safi:

Omid Safi is a teacher in the Islamic mystical tradition of Radical Love, and serves as a professor of Islamic studies at Duke University. Omid’s passion for teaching has been recognized by his ten nominations for Professor of the Year awards. Omid has published extensively on the foundational sources of Islam and Sufism. His Memories of Muhammad is an award-winning biography of the Prophet Muhammad. His most recent book is Radical Love: Teachings from the Islamic Mystical Tradition. He teaches online courses through Illuminated Courses on topics ranging from Rumi to the mystical dimension of the Qur’an.  Lastly, he offers for the general public Illuminated Tours , spiritually oriented contemplative journeys and retreats which have brought more than 2,500 friends from over twenty countries to Turkey, Morocco, Andalusia, and now Umrah since 2002. 

"There is such a thing as the dark side of the force and there is tremendous power in it. There are people who derive their reason to live and ability to get up in the day from that very negative energy. I don't think it's the healthiest one, I don't think it's the most beautiful one, but to pretend that it's not real and merely an illusion I think that's setting yourself up for a very rude awakening. Maybe what you want is to hold up the mirror and say yes this has power, but is this the most beautiful way to live?   –Omid Safi

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