Allegory, applicability, and Tolkien

Kale Zelden is a literature teacher and writer and in this video he joins me to discuss reading, the "Great books", and what it means to recover the reading tradition in a modern context. We talk about how to encounter old texts, what reading can contribute to our lives, and how to approach authors like Homer, Dante, and Shakespeare without reducing them to modern assumptions. We also explore the limits of the novel, modernism, postmodernism, irony, and the essential rediscovery of the epic.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/9zps7RIov44

Kale’s Substack, The Underneath: https://kalezelden.substack.com/

Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington
Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/ 

Learn more about Pavel Shchelin's phenomenal course on Plutarch, Live now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history


TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - Coming up
01:07 - Intro music
01:32 - Introduction
02:09 - The state of education
07:30 - First of all
10:47 - The power of analogy
13:11 - Select your curriculum
21:05 - What is canon?
33:24 - What are we moving towards
39:20 - Allegory
43:47 - What is modernism?
47:50 - Great books program
53:24 - What is the epic?


BOOKS MENTIONED IN THIS DISCUSSION:
00:04:45
 Augustine — Confessions — Spiritual autobiography, early Christian thought
 Plato — Dialogues — Philosophy of truth, justice, knowledge
 Aristotle — (various works) — Ethics, logic, metaphysics
 Church Fathers — (various writings) — Foundations of Christian theology
00:06:20
 Anne Rice — (novels) — Modern popular fiction
 Shakespeare — (general works) — Foundational drama
 Beowulf — Anonymous — Old English epic poem
00:06:49
 Plato — Dialogues — Rediscovered philosophical texts
00:07:32
 Shakespeare — Hamlet — Tragedy of revenge and doubt
 Dante — Divine Comedy — Vision of Hell, Purgatory, Heaven
 Chaucer — Canterbury Tales — Medieval storytelling
 Mary Shelley — Frankenstein — Creation and responsibility
 Milton — Paradise Lost — Epic of the Fall
00:13:55
 Kerouac — On the Road — Modern freedom and experience
 Camus — (e.g. The Stranger) — Existential philosophy
00:14:31
 Homer — Iliad, Odyssey — Foundational epics
 Plato — Apology, Republic — Justice and philosophy
 Shakespeare —
Romeo and Juliet — Tragic love
Julius Caesar — Politics and betrayal
Macbeth — Ambition and guilt
A Midsummer Night’s Dream — Comedy and illusion
King Lear — Suffering and authority
Hamlet — Existential tragedy
The Tempest — Reconciliation
00:16:21
 Dostoevsky — Crime and Punishment — Guilt and redemption
 Dostoevsky — The Brothers Karamazov — Faith and morality
00:21:31
 Voyage of St. Brendan — Medieval Christian voyage
 Apocalypse of Pseudo-Methodius — Apocalyptic text
 The Golden Legend — Jacobus de Voragine — Saints’ lives
00:21:58
 Cervantes — Don Quixote — Satire of chivalry, early novel
00:22:51
 Jane Austen — Pride and Prejudice — Social psychology
00:23:59
 Milton — Paradise Lost — (revisited, epic psychology)
00:26:11
 Faulkner — (novels) — Fragmented modern storytelling
00:33:41
 C.S. Lewis — On Stories — Defense of story over psychology
 C.S. Lewis — Abolition of Man — Critique of modern values
 C.S. Lewis — Miracles — Defense of the supernatural
00:37:05
 Sondheim — Into the Woods — Modern fairy tale deconstruction
00:38:55
 Rabelais — Gargantua and Pantagruel — Satirical, playful text
00:44:06
 Melville — Moby-Dick — Epic-scale novel
 Hemingway — The Sun Also Rises — Modern disillusionment
00:49:42
 Ovid — Metamorphoses — Mythic transformations
00:46:13 (thinkers mentioned)
 Lyotard — Postmodern philosophy
 Derrida — Deconstruction
 Heidegger — Phenomenology
00:53:14
 Virgil — Aeneid — Roman epic
 Bible — (Moses narrative) — Epic of calling and suffering

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My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/