Protecting Soil and Community Through Conscious Decisions

What if the life you're already living is richer than you think?

Shannon Hayes has spent decades asking — and answering — that question. A farmer, author, chef, and mother running three-generation Sap Bush Hollow Farm in the northern Catskill Mountains of New York, Shannon is the kind of person who makes you feel both deeply seen and quietly challenged. In this conversation, she joins Mary & Emma to talk about her book Redefining Rich — a book both of them listened to on Audible and have been recommending ever since — and the ideas within it that have genuinely changed the way they think about work, money, and what a good life actually looks like.

This episode is about more than finances. It's about unlearning the story we've been told about what success is supposed to feel like, and building something more honest in its place — something that honors the soil, the people in your circle, and the quiet, irreplaceable texture of your daily life.

Whether you're in the thick of the working-mom juggle, questioning whether your career aligns with your values, or simply trying to figure out what enough looks like for you — this one will stay with you.

In this episode, we cover:

• What Redefining Rich is really about — and why Mary & Emma keep coming back to it
• The "quality of life statement": what it is, why Shannon and her husband have used it as a compass for every major decision, and why Mary & Emma haven't written theirs down yet (but are inspired to)
• Non-monetary income: the radical idea that time, autonomy, homegrown food, and childcare reciprocity are all forms of wealth
• Why employment is actually the most expensive form of income — and how self-employment changes the math entirely
• The life-serving economy vs. the extractive economy, and what it looks like to build something circular and regenerative
• Shannon's honest, sometimes painful retrospective on writing Radical Homemakers — the hate mail, the co-opting of her words, the anxiety, and what she learned about letting go once a book is in the world
• The "trad wife" phenomenon and why Shannon finds it deeply at odds with what she actually wrote
• Why creatives don't need to reach everybody — just the people who need it next
• Scarcity mindset vs. abundance mindset, and how that shift changes everything from social media to business
• Slow living as a practice, not an achievement — and why Shannon says it's something you're always working toward
• The difference between dirt and soil — and what "the good dirt" means to a lifelong farmer

Resources & Links Mentioned:

• Redefining Rich by Shannon Hayes
• Radical Homemakers by Shannon Hayes
• The Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer
• Shannon's blog & farm: theradicalhomemaker.net / sapbushfarmstore.com
• The Hearth of Sap Bush Hollow Podcast — available wherever you listen to podcasts (runs May through summer each year)
• Patreon: Shannon Hayes (for patronage and ongoing support of her writing)

We'd love to hear from you. Did this episode shift the way you think about wealth or work? Email us at thegooddirtpodcast@gmail.com or call 443-459-1950 to leave us a voicemail — tell us what's on your quality of life statement.

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• Email us at thegooddirtpodcast@gmail.com or leave us a voicemail! Call 443-459-1950 and ask a question or share what the good dirt means to you!

Original music by John Kingsley. Editing and podcast production by Lady Farmer. The Good Dirt podcast is proudly part of the Connectd Podcasts network.

🌿 The Good Dirt Producers:

• Wendy Gray