Math Eventually Defeats Tribalism

Nearly everything that politicians say about taxes is at least half a lie. They are also dishonest when it comes to the national debt. In this update of an episode from 2025, Stephen Dubner finds one of the few people in Washington who is willing to tell the truth — and it’s even worse than you think.

• SOURCES:
  • Jessica Riedl, budget and tax fellow at the Brookings Institution.

• RESOURCES:
  • "How Did DOGE Disrupt So Much While Saving So Little?" by Emily Badger, David Fahrenthold, Alicia Parlapiano, and Margot Sanger-Katz (New York Times, 2025).
  • "Correcting the Top 10 Tax Myths," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024).
  • "Spending, Taxes, and Deficits: A Book of Charts," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024).
  • "Why Did Americans Stop Caring About the National Debt?" by Jessica Riedl (Reason, 2024).
  • "A Comprehensive Federal Budget Plan to Avert a Debt Crisis," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2024).
  • "When Does Federal Debt Reach Unsustainable Levels?" by Jagadeesh Gokhale, Kent Smetters, and Mariko Paulson (The Wharton School of Business, 2023).
  • "The Limits of Taxing the Rich," by Jessica Riedl (Manhattan Institute, 2023).

• EXTRAS:
  • "Farewell to a Generational Talent," by Freakonomics Radio (2024).

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