That's My Story, But Not Where It Ends: Robert Polito on Bob Dylan's Second Act
Keen On America
Intro
Andrew Keen introduces the show, F. Scott Fitzgerald's remark, and Robert Polito and his new Dylan book.
“That’s my story, but not where it ends.” — Bob Dylan, “Key West (Philosopher Pirate)”
Fitzgerald said there were no second acts in the American story. But it is, of course, a narrative of second chances. And there’s no more of an American story than Bob Dylan, whose second act may be more memorable than his first.
Robert Polito — poet, National Book Critics Circle Award-winning biographer, and former director of creative writing at the New School — has written what may be the (anti) definitive book on Dylan’s second act. After the Flood: Inside Bob Dylan’s Memory Palace covers the years from “Time Out of Mind” in 1997 through “Rough and Rowdy Ways” in 2020. It’s structured as an abecedarium — twenty-six chapters, A to Z — because Polito explains, he wanted a form that acknowledged the limits of what anyone can know about Dylan. There is no rosebud sled buried in the Tulsa archive. So an alphabet book as good as we are gonna get.
Digging into Dylan’s Tulsa archive, Polito found much blood on the tracks — multiple drafts for every work, songs ripped up and redistributed line by line. The freewheeling spontaneity of Dylan’s first act, Polito suggests, was replaced by something more deliberate: an American folk process merging into literary modernism. A hostage to his own memory palace, Dylan weaves Civil War poetry, Ovid’s exile poems, Homer, and nineteenth-century speeches into songs that know more than any single listener can interpret.
Polito argues that “Rough and Rowdy Ways” is Bob Dylan’s real Nobel Prize speech — his self-reflection on his own art, delivered in his own forms and idioms. This pinnacle of Dylan’s second act is his story, but not where it ends.
Five Takeaways
• Rough and Rowdy Ways Is Dylan’s Real Nobel Prize Speech: The 2020 album is Dylan’s self-reflection on his own art, delivered in his own forms and idioms. Every song addresses his craft, his legacy, his audience. I Contain Multitudes, Key West, Murder Most Foul, My Own Version of You — each one a chapter in the speech the Nobel committee was waiting for. That’s when Polito knew he could write the book.
• Dylan Works Harder Than Anyone Would Expect: The Tulsa archive reveals multiple drafts of songs that change radically from version to version. For Time Out of Mind, Dylan completed three or four songs, then ripped them up and redistributed the lines across different tracks. The spontaneity of the first act gave way to something more deliberate — folk process merging into literary modernism. Eliot, Joyce, Gertrude Stein.
• The Memory Palace Is Real: Dylan embeds Civil War poetry, Ovid’s exile poems, Homer, nineteenth-century speeches, and movies into his late songs. The classical mnemonic device — depositing memories in specific rooms — became Polito’s image for how much those songs know. There is no rosebud sled buried in the Tulsa archive. The memory palace is the art itself.
• That’s My Story, But Not Where It Ends: The last line of Key West — probably Polito’s favourite song on Rough and Rowdy Ways. If the song had ended with “that’s my story,” there would have been a definitiveness about it. Instead, Dylan subverts the line in the very next breath. Tentativeness and self-skepticism, all the way through.
• The Police Didn’t Believe He Was Bob Dylan: Wandering around New Jersey in the rain, looking for where Springsteen grew up. The police pick him up. What’s your name? Bob Dylan. What’s your real name? Robert Zimmerman. Where do you live? That’s a good question. The more precisely he told the truth, the more they assumed he was lying. Knowing innocence.
About the Guest
Robert Polito is a poet, critic, and biographer. His biography of Jim Thompson, Savage Art, won the National Book Critics Circle Award. He is a former director of creative writing at the New School. After the Flood: Inside Bob Dylan’s Memory Palace is published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux.
References:
• After the Flood: Inside Bob Dylan’s Memory Palace by Robert Polito (FSG) — the book under discussion.
• Episode 2849: How Stories Can Save Us — Colum McCann on Narrative Four. McCann’s “that’s his story, but not where it ends” is also Dylan’s line.
About Keen On America
Nobody asks more awkward questions than the Anglo-American writer and filmmaker Andrew Keen. In Keen On America, Andrew brings his pointed Transatlantic wit to making sense of the United States — hosting daily interviews about the history and future of this now venerable Republic. With nearly 2,800 episodes since the show launched on TechCrunch in 2010, Keen On America is the most prolific intellectual interview show in the history of podcasting.
Chapters:
- (00:00) -
- (00:31) - Introduction: Fitzgerald, second acts, and A Complete Unknown
- (02:57) - Team Dylan? No — tentativeness and self-skepticism
- (04:00) - The abecedarium: twenty-six chapters, A to Z, no rosebud sled
- (06:13) - Dylan the movie guy: always watching films on the tour bus
- (07:13) - The memory palace: how much those late songs know
- (09:26) - The interlude: the Grammy lifetime achievement speech and starting over
- (12:11) - Time Out of Mind and the Tulsa archive: how hard Dylan works
- (15:55) - Folk process meets literary modernism: Eliot, Joyce, Stein
- (18:34) - Lanois, the spoken vs. written word, and why albums are just a stage
- (21:41) - Rough and Rowdy Ways as Dylan’s real Nobel Prize speech
- (24:19) - Key West: that’s my story, but not where it ends
- (26:04) - The sacrificial quality: he was given something and shouldn’t squander it
- (30:24) - Race, the civil war, and Love and Theft as minstrel acknowledgment
- (34:32) - Murder Most Foul: take me back to Tulsa, to the scene of the crime
- (40:56) - Picked up by police in New Jersey looking for Springsteen’s house
The AI-powered Podcast Player
