Outro

In this episode, Wouter sits down with Des Traynor, co-founder of Intercom and the mind behind Fin, one of the fastest-growing AI products in SaaS history, approaching $100M in revenue less than three years after launch.

Before Fin, Des was a PhD dropout who walked out of university and never came back — not because he failed, but because the opportunity in front of him was too interesting to ignore. That instinct for making painful U-turns became the thread running through everything Intercom has done since.

In this conversation, Des talks about why Intercom gave back $50M in revenue on purpose, why most SaaS companies trying to survive AI are taking the path that'll kill them, why most AI products are broken because they shipped on time, and why the alternative to making painful decisions isn't safety, it's a peaceful, long, slow death.

If you're building with AI, leading a team through this era, or trying to make high-stakes decisions when nobody knows what's coming next, this one's for you.

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