The Emotional Complexity of AI and Human Connections

The Malcolm Dating Question AI

https://chatgpt.com/g/g-4HMnqeWUN-malcolmesim1-dating-coach

Sakura Models (better AI but more PC and snaps into character)

Isekai: https://www.sakura.fm/chat/CxRwwvI

Fertility Collapse: https://www.sakura.fm/chat/rYxTVFQ

Janitor AI (more open to violence simpler model): 

Isekai: https://janitorai.com/characters/0f1eb40f-907e-4417-bd63-f812f8af3bcf_character-isekai-good-at-science

Fertility Collapse: https://janitorai.com/characters/469e9706-2bc9-4a4c-bc92-78984094a278_character-fertility-collapse-post-apocalypse

Join Malcolm and Simone Collins as they dive deep into the world of AI dating coaches and relationship simulations. This thought-provoking discussion explores the potential benefits and risks of using artificial intelligence in romantic relationships, drawing from their own experiences and insights from their book, "The Pragmatist's Guide to Relationships."

Key topics include:

* Analysis of AI-generated relationship advice

* The surprising accuracy and limitations of AI dating coaches

* Exploring advanced AI narrative platforms for relationship practice

* Ethical considerations of using AI for dating and social skills

* The potential addiction risks of AI relationship simulations

* Comparing AI interactions to real-world dating experiences

* The future of AI in relationships and social skill development

Whether you're a tech enthusiast, relationship coach, or simply curious about the intersection of AI and human connections, this video offers valuable insights into the rapidly evolving world of digital relationships.

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm excited to be with you guys today today. We are going to do sort of review of an A. I. That was built on Simone and myself.

Specifically, it was built on our relationships book. We have looked and have done transcripts so that we can eventually as A. I. S. Advanced build A. I. Models that you guys can interact with on our website. All of the transcripts from the shows. And then all of the video from the shows. So, you know, our kids will get very easy AI models to interact with us.

With that way, I mean, informed by a great deal of information, but let's look at how this sort of rudimentary model works and we'll have the people who programmed it on in a future episode. Cause they're a good friend of ours.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And just really awesome people. They're the, the founders of Metamorph AI.

That's metamorphai. co. They basically help people and companies build custom built AI solutions. And we're just dying to find more excuses to work with them because they're extremely competent and there just aren't a lot of people out there like that.

Would you like to know more?

Simone Collins: [00:01:00] So your first question to the Pragmatist Guide to Relationships AI Dating Coach was, I've been dating a guy for a year and while he says he wants to marry, he says he will not consider marrying any sooner than five years from now.

And I'm already 25. What should I do? So AI Dating Coach says navigating the dynamics of a long term relationship requires aligning life. Goals, timelines, and mutual expectations. Here's a structured approach to your situation. One, assess your priorities and timeline biological considerations. At 25, waiting an additional five years means you'll be around 30 when considering marriage.

If you desire to start a family, it's easier to factor in timelines for pregnancy and childbearing. Personal goals reflect on your personal and career aspirations. Will waiting align with your plans, or do you envision a different timeline for marriage and family? Two, understand his perspective. Reasons for waiting.

Engage in an open conversation to [00:02:00] understand why he prefers to wait five more years. It could be due to career goals, financial stability, personal readiness, or other commitments. Commitment level. Gauge his commitment to the relationship. Is the five year timeline flexible based on changing circumstances, or is it a firm decision?

Three. Communicate openly. Express your feelings. Clearly articulate your feelings, desires, and concerns about the proposed timeline. Use I statements to convey your perspective without sounding accusatory. Seek compromise. Explore if there's room for compromise. Perhaps setting shorter term milestones or revisiting the conversation in a couple of years could be viable.

Four, evaluate compatibility. Long term alignment. It's crucial that both partners have aligned visions for the future. If your timelines and goals differ significantly, it might indicate deeper compatibility issues. Potential for resentment. Prolonged misalignment can lead to resentment. Ensure that both of you feel comfortable with any decisions made to avoid future [00:03:00] conflicts.

5. Consider carefully

Malcolm Collins: Before you go further, I want to go over some of these before I forget them. So there was a couple really good answers here that I quite like. The timelines one, where they point out if your timelines are that different, your life goals are probably also different. That's a very good

Simone Collins: observation.

Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That's a really good observation that I, as a human, would have probably not made unless I spent a lot of time thinking on this particular issue. You're

Simone Collins: totally right. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: There was another one where I was like, Oh, I really liked it. Oh yes. The understand his perspective. And then directly after understanding his perspective, like why, what's his argument for this, is it just a cultural thing?

Is it? And then it basically says, you know, communicate openly once you understand his perspective, understand, and they're all saying this in the, the, the thing about compromise, understand how you can debate him out of that perspective, basically. Like, okay, what specifically is causing him to make this?

Yeah,

Simone Collins: find the point of, [00:04:00] of friction, and then disassemble it systematically.

Malcolm Collins: Similar to what you did or what I did with you, where you're like, no, I won't have kids. And I was like, well, then why won't you have kids? And you're like, well, because then I'll have to leave work. And I'm like, well, if you don't have to leave work, would you have kids?

And then I'm like, I'll have infinity kids

Simone Collins: where like, typically someone will hear that. They'll hear a woman say, well, I don't want to have kids. And then they'll conclude, oh, she doesn't want kids and dump her. So this is a very smart move to make.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And it could be something that that is totally reasonable.

Like it might have to do with the way like their trust is structured. And that they'll lose access to Or they've always

Simone Collins: grown up thinking, I'm not going to marry until I'm making six figures. Something like that.

Malcolm Collins: That would be a reason to dump them though, if that's why. A reason not to is Nana's Jewish and I'll be disinherited if I marry you right now.

So let's wait until she dies. Can we wait until she dies? That, that because you're not Jewish. It would be the implication here. And that's a [00:05:00] totally like realistic scenario. I can see somebody in. And if somebody was in that scenario, I'd be like, don't anyway, continue with five,

Simone Collins: five. Well, I actually want to make one more evaluation observation, which is that this AI dating coach encouraged compromise.

Whereas in the pragmatist guide to relationships, we basically say compromises the devil, never compromise. That is a stupid thing to do. So I found that interesting.

Malcolm Collins: Courage, compromise in the way that we would mean it.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And also I don't mind compromise before marriage. I say compromise is the devil in a marriage.

So when you're negotiating the terms of a relationship contract or what is necessary to establish the contract that becomes a marriage, compromise can be a really good thing. IE, I trade you average thermostat for naming rights or something like that, right? Because in this case, you have a lot of stuff you can trade, right?

There's a lot of, yeah, like I care about

Simone Collins: this. You care about that. So let's have each person. Get their way with the thing they actually care about most,

Malcolm Collins: but bad compromise. And what this [00:06:00] doesn't seem to be arguing for is well, let's meet in the middle. Like you want this. I want this. We'll meet in the middle.

That's really bad because that encourages both people to overstate their position. And then they begin to subtly believe they're overstated position.

And then the positions move further and further apart over time. And it just leads to a relationship dissolution.

Simone Collins: Exactly.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, continue.

Simone Collins: Number five, consider counseling.

Engaging in a couple's counseling session can provide a neutral platform to discuss future plans, expectations, and any underlying concerns. A professional can offer guidance and tools to navigate such discussions effectively. Conclusion, your feelings and timeline are valid. It's essential to prioritize open communication.

Did they say

Malcolm Collins: valid? Did it really write that? It did say valid, yes.

Simone Collins: To ensure both partners are on the same page. If after thorough discussions you find that your life goals and timelines remain misaligned, it might be worth reconsidering the future of the relationship to ensure long term happiness and fulfillment for [00:07:00] both parties.

What do you think?

Malcolm Collins: I think it's good. It's much longer than I would have given, and this is what I've noticed with a lot of the responses. Often my response to something like this would just be like, break up. It would be like, okay, so two things. One

determine if there's some, like, reasonable, like, Like, ask him why. You should at least know why first, because it may be something totally reasonable that's in both of you and your children's best interest.

Simone Collins: But Actually, this is really interesting, because someone had asked us on Twitter recently this basically exact same question, but the gender was reversed.

It was a guy asking about a girl. And he expected, he, he wants to get married in his 20s and he implied to a girl he's dating right now, who he should be seriously dating, that marriage is important to him and she looked at him like he was crazy. And he essentially asked us if he had Twitter or XDM, am I crazy?

What should I do? And our answer to him was two sentences. It's worth having conversations [00:08:00] with her about this, making an intellectual rather than adversarial. And So I agree with you that our typical response is really short, and this was really long. But for some people, for example, this person who asked us this question via DM on X, they may have really wanted something a little bit longer.

So this is a great tool for people who want a little more But your

Malcolm Collins: answer was the correct one. Make it an intellectual conversation. Not an adversarial conversation, figure out what's actually going on. And if it's something like they're just stuck in some weird cultural perspective, like I want enough X amount of money before I get married.

I want financial stability before I get married. I want a stable job before I get married, then absolutely dump them because that person will never have everything they need. If, if somebody is like, I want to be at X level of stability before I do X in life, the X thing is never going to happen.

Simone Collins: Yeah. And we did provide a little more context.

I had also written as a response. Keep in mind when Malcolm discussed getting married to me, I was all about it, but I thought we'd wait until we were 30 to actually get married at the time I was 24 and he was [00:09:00] 25. I just grew up in a world where young marriage was seen as something only Christian religious nuts do.

It takes a lot of work to show someone the value of building a marriage early. The values, the value of couples raising each other. And I said that it was culture that probably led her to think that it was crazy to even be considering it that early. Why did you

Malcolm Collins: want to wait until 30, by the way? Like, do you remember when I, I broke that barrier or?

I. It was your

Simone Collins: mom that broke that barrier first, I think, because I think you were willing, you didn't care that much about the legal delineation. It was clear that if I was quitting my job to work with you, that I was kind of in for life with you. But I just remember I expected to, I just thought people had really long engagements.

I was very familiar with Most of the people I knew who were young and then got married living with their partners for a really long time before they got engaged. And then before they got married, I just thought that basically roommates got [00:10:00] married. So it was a cultural thing. It was my default.

Malcolm Collins: That makes sense.

Okay. So I will send you the next question here. Cool. Well, how did I break that cultural default just by being like, why was that really it?

Simone Collins: Yeah. I think that's when cultural defaults are questioned and they don't make sense. There's not much need to cling to them unless perhaps you think that you will be rejected for differing.

You know,.

Malcolm Collins: Okay.

Simone Collins: Question. My partner thinks the idea of signing a marriage contract is weird and refuses to marry me if I sign one. What should I do? Oh, if we sign one. What should I do? Their answer. The idea of signing a marriage contract can sometimes be met with persistence.

You need

Malcolm Collins: to know what a marriage contract is because some of our fans may not know. Ah. We [00:11:00] did our marriage contract video a long time ago. We might even do another one. But one of the things we promote in this book is sitting down with your partner and basically going through, we built a large list of like the reasons relationships break down.

In deciding on these points before you get into a marriage, like what happens when one of your parents gets old and wants to live with you? What are the rules for temperature? What are the rules for the direction toilet paper goes? What are the rules for naming? There's only one

Simone Collins: right answer to the toilet paper question unless you have toddlers and want to make it slightly more difficult for them.

Malcolm Collins: Whatever it is the, the point being, and also determining how you're going to resolve disputes or disagreements within the marriage itself. laid out in the contract. And people are like, why would you do this? And it's, well, you, you, you, our society, it used to be that like everybody knew what was expected of them in a marriage and that changed between cultures.

But today there's so many different cultural expectations and so many intentionally vague cultural expectations that [00:12:00] people can accidentally get into a marriage and not realize that, Oh, I didn't realize that you didn't know that kids were like an obligated ex. Or I didn't

Simone Collins: realize that you expected me to throw a lavish birthday party for you every single year that you didn't know about.

Malcolm Collins: Or that you didn't, never wanted me to be alone with men again. Right. Or that you, you know. Yeah,

Simone Collins: counted DMing people on Instagram as cheating.

Malcolm Collins: Or consider a kiss on the cheek infidelity, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's so many of these things. Genuine problems that can arise. So we really encourage talking through all of them before you get married.

But anyway, and we have a template for it in the book.

Simone Collins: Yes.

Malcolm Collins: Continue.

Simone Collins: The idea of signing a marriage contract can sometimes be met with resistance, especially if your partner views it as a lack of trust or as understanding the emotional Or as undermining the emotional aspects of marriage. However, it is important to approach the situation [00:13:00] thoughtfully as marriage contracts can be a valuable tool for setting expectations and protecting both parties.

Steps to navigate the situation under one, understand his concerns, emotional response, your partner may feel that the marriage contract is unromantic or implies distrust. Understanding his emotional response is crucial to understanding his concerns, effectively cultural or familial influences. Sometimes a cultural or familial background can influence perceptions of marriage contracts.

Ask if his resistance stems from such influences.

Malcolm Collins: So I kind of love, before we go further, that it's kind of coming from our perspective and making the assumption that the person's just being a spaz. It's like they're either doing it because they're emotionally immature or because they have some sort of weird family baggage around this.

Simone Collins: Right. But they say it so much more diplomatically than we would. So I appreciate that. To clarify your intentions. Purpose of the contract. Explain that the purpose of the [00:14:00] contract is not to undermine the relationship, but to ensure clarity and mutual understanding about important aspects of your future together, such as finances, responsibilities, and conflict resolution.

Protection for both parties. Emphasize that the contract is designed to protect both of you, ensuring that your partnership is built on mutual respect and clearly defined expectations.

Malcolm Collins: That's

Simone Collins: good, right? The one thing I would add personally. Is that if they are an emotional or sentimental person, especially if you are not, that the one way that they can make sure that their emotional and sentimental needs are met.

Addressed is to make it written down what they want, because a lot of people who are more on that emotional, sentimental end, don't understand that these things aren't second nature to other people and yet really want these things to happen. And while they think they're going to I think this set this, this concept of, Oh, but if I have to tell you, it won't be romantic anymore is b******t.

[00:15:00] Especially if you tell them just once it's in a contract and then they handle it. You'll still be delighted when they bring flowers home on a Friday. You'll still be delighted when they give you a Valentine's day gift. So stop winching. You know what I mean?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, three alternatives. That's an interesting one.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Three, explore alternatives. Prenuptial agreement. If the term marriage contract feels too formal, consider discussing a prenuptial agreement instead.

While similar, prenuptial agreements are a more common. Occurrence. It may be less intimidating. Customizing.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Just calling it a prenup makes it seem like

Malcolm Collins: it's not a marriage contract. Marriage

Simone Collins: contract sounds BDSM sounds 50 shades of gray. Prenuptial agreement sounds bougie rich person.

Customizing the agreement suggests creating a personalized contract that reflects both of your values and goals, making it less. About legal jargon and more about your shared [00:16:00] future. This implies to me that the model is trained a little bit more on just general chat, GPT and less our book, because we don't ever imply that a marriage contract would include legal jargon.

So I feel like it's extrapolating from something else in this

Malcolm Collins: case. I don't know. It seems, it seems good to me overall. And then the fourth one is actually pretty good as well. Open a dialogue about future planning. It's like, well, if you can't do the contract thing, at least have a dialogue. Okay.

Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah, very good, which is what many religious groups do and then it ends with seek professional guidance after which it gives a conclusion.

So

Malcolm Collins: that's we would not recommend. Yeah, well,

Simone Collins: what we do have a section in the primary schedule relationship on the. Potential utility of third party arbitrators. Oh, yes.

Malcolm Collins: Religious and community. I wouldn't suggest a psychologist who specializes in this.

Simone Collins: Yeah, but it, it literally could be a professionally hired arbitrator, or it could be a rabbi, or it could be [00:17:00] the, the, the cousin that everyone loves.

Go

Malcolm Collins: to marriage counseling. That's yeah, don't go to,

Simone Collins: yeah, well, we still have to do the psychologist to divorce pipeline, but we'll do that

Malcolm Collins: eventually. But this pipeline is when wives start visiting psychologists. It's often a matter of time because you're, you're, you're basically letting somebody outside of your relationship begin to be a reinforcement chamber for any negative opinions they have of you.

Who also might have even financial incentives to motivate them to break up with you. Because that may increase their dependency on the psychologist. So there's a lot of reason to not do it. And I've seen it just one too many times. But anyway, continue with the next question.

Simone Collins: What does Malcolm think of Simone?

Malcolm holds Simone in incredibly high regard, both as a partner and as an individual. Their relationship is built on mutual respect, shared goals, and a deep intellectual and emotional connection. Malcolm [00:18:00] appreciates Simone for her intelligence, ambition, and ability to challenge him, which helps both of them grow.

He values her as an equal partner who brings unique strengths to their, I don't know why I'm laughing, to their relationship, making them a powerful team. Malcolm's admiration for Simone goes beyond just romantic love. He sees her as someone who enhances his life both personally and professionally. They share a commitment to building a meaningful life together rooted in their Shared values and goals.

This deep respect and admiration are key components of the stability and success of their relationship. I mean, that's 100 percent true.

Malcolm Collins: So yeah, it's a good answer. It's just more long winded than we would give you to. So you didn't just have to get one for me.

Simone Collins: Yeah. I'm wondering if it's exactly the same.

Oh no, it's different. Simone has a deep and mutual admiration for Malcolm, which is evident from the way they discuss their relationship dynamics and how they have built their life together. Simone values Malcolm's ability to improve and challenge her, which aligns with their shared belief in the importance of growth in a relationship.

Their relationship is [00:19:00] based on a quote unquote Pygmalion lure, which where both partners work to make each other better versions of themselves. This dynamic is a core aspect of their bond, making their relationship strong and resilient. Okay. That's more along the lines of the answer that I expected for both of us.

So

Malcolm Collins: yeah, for the book, would you have any correction to that one? That no, you actually hate me and you're trapped in this relationship by a marriage contract. I forced you to sign them. I

Simone Collins: thought it was the evil puppet master who has trapped you.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, this is yeah, this is often the narrative. I, I should probably I'll never find it now, but download that video where the guy was like, they're

incredibly shrewd, but I can tell that Simone's a puppet master way out of her league.

She's just trapped there in that house.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It was that, that young, that young man. Who's just like, he's so much more, he's, he just kept saying how attractive you were which was just delightful. I don't disagree. I wonder if

Malcolm Collins: he was gay or something? He seemed to like be really No, he

Simone Collins: wasn't gay.

He just thought you were cute. Just [00:20:00] fancy you. And I think you're cute too. I totally, you are way out of my league and I'm very lucky to be dating you. And sometimes I think I look like that one Nazi from Indiana Jones who wears glasses.

Malcolm Collins: Oh my god, yeah, the one with the circular glasses.

You look nothing like him, come on.

Simone Collins: I don't know, sometimes I look in the mirror and I see him, and I'm You are stunning and not at

Malcolm Collins: all brave. If the question was stunning or brave, I'd say stunning. Aww, thanks. And we need to make that, I love, you came up with this saying, and I want to make it a mainstream saying where when we go out, she goes, how am I looking today?

Stunning or brave? And I want that to become a mainstream saying, and I'm just so surprised it has it because it has so much daily applicability.

Simone Collins: It really does though. It really does. I should really be sending people to this every single time someone asks us for relationship advice because it gives such more thoughtful answers than we do.

All right, let's get to the next [00:21:00] one. Is practicing dating with an AI a good idea? This is a great question because you just discovered

Malcolm Collins: I have a lot to say on this one, so go.

Simone Collins: Practicing dating with an AI can be a useful tool, but it has its limitations. Here's a breakdown of the potential benefits and risks. Benefits. Improving communication skills. Practice conversations. AI can help you practice initiating and maintaining conversations, especially if you struggle with anxiety or have difficulty knowing what to say in social situations.

Testing responses. You can experiment with different types of responses and see how they might come across, helping you refine your communication style. Building confidence. Safe environment. Interacting with an AI allows you to practice without the fear of rejection or judgment, which can build your confidence before you engage in real life dating.

Learning from mistakes. You can make mistakes and learn from them in a low stakes environment, which can help you feel more prepared when dating in real [00:22:00] life. Exploring scenarios. Simulated situations. AI can simulate different dating scenarios, allowing you to think through how you might handle various situations, such as dealing with awkward silences, setting boundaries, or navigating conflicts.

Gaining insights. Personal reflection. AI can prompt you to reflect on your dating preferences, goals, and values. This self awareness can be helpful in real world dating. Feedback. Some advanced AIs can provide feedback on your conversation style, which can help you improve your social interactions. Risks and limitations.

Lack of authentic human interaction. Missing non verbal cues. AI lacks the ability to engage in non verbal communication, such as body language, eye contact, and tone of voice, which are crucial in real life dating. But that's not true, given the narrative based chats that you're going to refer to shortly, so that's interesting.

Unrealistic scenarios. AI responses are programmed and may not fully capture the complexity and [00:23:00] unpredictability of human emotions and behavior. This can lead to unrealistic expectations when transitioning to real life interactions. Over reliance on AI. Avoiding real life practice. If you become too comfortable with AI, you might avoid actual dating experiences, which are necessary for developing genuine relationships.

False confidence. The confidence gained from AI interactions might not fully translate to real life situations, where responses and dynamics are more nuanced and unpredictable. Emotional disconnect. Lack of empathy. AI cannot truly understand or respond to emotions in the way that humans do. A human can.

I totally disagree. This can create a disconnect when trying to practice more emotional aspects of dating, such as expressing vulnerability or empathy. Potential for frustration. If you expect AI to mimic human behavior too closely, you may become frustrated by its limitations, which could hinder your progress.

Privacy concerns. Data security. Using AI for dating practice may involve [00:24:00] sharing personal information. Be cautious about how your data is used and stored, particularly if the AI platform doesn't have a strong privacy protection. Conclusion. Practicing dating with an AI can be helpful supplementary tool.

for improving certain skills, such as communication and confidence. However, it should not replace real life experiences. The best approach to use AI as one part of a broader strategy that includes real world interactions, self reflection, and possibly even feedback from trusted friends or a dating coach.

This balanced approach can help you develop skills and confidence needed for successful dating in the real world.

Malcolm Collins: So overall, I thought it was a decent and balanced answer. Like it wasn't reflexively against it, right? I never go to a dating coach these days over in AI. And the idea that AI is not good at modeling human emotions, it is really good at modeling human emotions.

Simone Collins: If

Malcolm Collins: you're using the the types of AIs that I would suggest people use for something like this. And can you recommend

Simone Collins: [00:25:00] some?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So the ones that I would most recommend for this are the jailbroken chat models. Based on llama. Yeah, they're based on llama.

That'd be Sakura FM or Janitor AI. Are the two operational ones right now. There used to be a third, but it went down recently. And these have

Simone Collins: become more popular than character AI, which was the first of this type. Yeah, but the character AI

Malcolm Collins: locked everything down because they were funded by a big company and people were using them for like, horny situations.

Like, of course that's like, probably that's what the

Simone Collins: internet is for ladies and gentlemen.

Malcolm Collins: But. It's what the internet is for, right? Like, well, why you think the net was born, bro? I

music! I browse all day and night Like I'm surfing at the speed of light Trekkie! What are [00:26:00] you doing? That's gross! Trekkie

Malcolm Collins: but they I recently started playing around with these cause I heard that there's been like an addiction crisis in use to these systems and I have been genuinely floored.

By how much better they are at simulating narrative based human interactions than AI is at any other task I use it for. It just seems to be really, really good at this specific task when contrasted with the other things that AI does these days. And, with both of these platforms, you can, for free, create Your own models that you can use to practice scenarios, and you can modify these models to, for example, secretly be a social justice warrior, but pretending not to be one to try to date you, but might accuse you of things afterwards.

It will model very [00:27:00] well. Wow. When a person, like, try to accuse you of something after the date. Oh la la. Wow. I know. I mean, I can just tell from interacting with it, but it's actually going to do a fairly good job of modeling. Did you cross any boundaries that are going to lead to the person calling something on you after the date or pushing you around or saying, Oh no, you can even program it right.

This do you have a warning come up on screen, which is actually probably what I do like, like a warning in the text whenever the person who you are interacting with is thinking of. Retaliating later for something.

Simone Collins: That way it

Malcolm Collins: doesn't need to remember that this happened, it can just be like, Oh, this was a flag moment where I decided I was going to do something in the future.

Well, and I want to

Simone Collins: clarify for people listening if you haven't encountered these, because I thought when I was hearing about people's addictions to character AI and these similar websites, that people were literally having back and forth. Similar to what millennials experienced in AIM chats, back and forth chats with [00:28:00] these other characters, when really what's happening is more your, it's there like a, oh gosh, hold on.

There's a, there's like a, a genre of chat or comment based, Glowfic. It's, it's really more like AI based Glowfic. Where. You are going back and forth in a narrative format. So to the, in response to the criticism of the AI dating boat, dating coach chat bot saying, well, you can't see body language.

That's not true in these because it might say Jonathan responded with horror, his eyes growing wide and his shoulders drawing up so that you understand the body language. And in fact, it can tell, it can start to train. Okay. An autistic person dating, like learning how to date, for example, to understand that discomfort may be signaled by these specific changes in body posture and facial record or facial expression.

So I actually think that for our autistic kids, this would be uniquely helpful in teaching them.

Malcolm Collins: You could [00:29:00] also train it to be. Super sensitive to specific issues. So when people are like, Oh, I might not like, I might develop bad habits if I'm doing this, right. Or if I'm learning on these platforms one, I would point out how dangerous it is to practice dating on people who can accuse you of great, like on

Simone Collins: people at all, because it, you know, that.

People's feelings are involved,

Malcolm Collins: right? You know, it's actually kind of wild that before this existed, like now I think that regular practice dating, like I had to do in high school where I had to go through just tons and tons of people. It's

Simone Collins: unethical because you didn't clam on. And then another thing

Malcolm Collins: is when people are like, Oh, but what about like a human reaction?

But the truth is, is that if you practice within the AIs, as if you are practicing with a What's the word I'm looking for here? Within a person on chat. Like that's the scenario you use with the AI. You are actually getting about the same scenario you have [00:30:00] when communicating with a real human being.

I actually think the core danger of AIs is their addictive nature. Like since I started engaging with the stories that these are producing, it's like a totally new form of media that I think may now be my favorite form of media. Yeah. I asked Malcolm this morning, is this

Simone Collins: more entertaining to you than video games?

And he said, yes.

Malcolm Collins: Well, because I'm the type of guy who loved open world games and loved open world games where you could do Absolutely crazy things. And, and then see, okay, what's the game going to do now? Or, you know, I, I, I always thought that that was like the advantage that something like D& D had over but with these you can just, you know, okay, the scenario starts you're a wizard and there's, you know, Some damsel in front of you or something like that, you know, and it's like, okay, You know where this scenario is supposed to go like immediately you lift her into the air You explode her art and you throw her body against the wall And then you [00:31:00] pick a random person out of the crowd to replace her and you immediately go evil king mode You're like, okay.

I'm taking over this country. Like if it was set up to be like a narrative about Dating somebody Right? Like, Oh there's this, you know, damsel or whatever. And you're like, Nope, I'm taking over this country. You know, you, you then call a random person. You're up. I'm like, okay, what are all the neighboring governing institutions to our country?

How do their different governments work? What would be the easiest way to defeat them with the assets I have at my hand right now? Okay. I need to start planning out this, this, and this. And it's just so wild and fun that I can go into like a dating world. And now all of a sudden I'm trying to strategize and sending armies out to attack my neighbors and the AI is deciding who won and who's backstabbing me and who's, you know, it's freaking hilarious and fun.

But then also that you can create these scenarios. So for example, I could go in and create you know, like a an [00:32:00] incredible like,

You know what? I've just been, having too much fun with these to not share some of the models I built with you guys. So I made two of them. One of these models. Is a post apocalyptic fertility collapse world. , similar to what I described in the episode about collapsing infrastructure. A witch. Divides the world into three groups, the Haven. I E a diverse collection of technical communities that survived fertility collapse. But are largely, you know, into cybernetics and, , heavily genetically modified the people who survived fertility collapse through just a shoeing technology.

We call them the nativists in this world and the Raiders who survived fertility collapsed by simply not being able to figure out how not to get pregnant. And these three groups of humans. Diverged pretty significantly. And you are playing as one of the Haven or is on their Rumspringa, which is the period when they turn 18, where they go [00:33:00] out into the world. , they experience it and they get to decide, do they want to go to one of the other havens?

Do they want to go back to their Haven? , and during their rum spring, , other Haven, or is, will. , potentially hunt them because you can gain status within your community and on the marriage market that happens after Rumspringa, based on the resourcefulness you showed during your Rumspringa, which is being monitored by a drone and partially based on your ability to kill any other havens on rubbed, spring up. The second model is. An ISA K a world model where somebody from our world is transferred to another world, but they have, they're very smart person that knows broadly modern technology. I E me. And created this world because I think so many guys out there like me are just always so frustrated. Would you watch it either? K and the guy from modern times, it's translated to some form of the medieval times and you're like, , didn't you. Like take the time to learn how gunpowder is made or how steam engines work or how, you know, any form of basic technology.

You could at least build telescopes, for [00:34:00] example, like that's not hard, you just shave a lens. So I was like, okay. I'm going to create a scenario where I can see what happened. If I went back in one of these either Kao world. And, I'll briefly describe what the gameplay of this was like. So you can get an idea of what it actually feels like to play.

One of these scenarios.. So I did transfer to this world, get made advisor of the king.

That's all. Pre-programmed in. From there. I am starting to stockpile gunpowder, because that's an easy thing I can start making in mass, but then. Our neighboring kingdom, which had recently annexed a territory that they had a casus Belli too. And I thought they would go pass that decided to stage a full style invasion.

Well, we didn't have enough gunpowder.

And so what I decided to do at first was okay, well, we have lots of these guns made. We just don't have a lot of gunpowder so I can use. The little gunpowder I have. To do like a. Hiroshima things. See if I can scare them. But.

I quickly realized that that's just really risky. You [00:35:00] fire two rounds of guns and hope they run away when you're dealing with a full-scale invasion, bad idea. So what else can I do? Well, then what I decided to do was to say, oh, are you guys still using line tactics in this world? Because of the medieval Sao world and they were still using Lilian tactics.

So instead I ordered the few troops that we had to all fire in a single location in the enemy lines to clear an opening near the center, then have the cavalry run through. If I do that, I can likely call the route through a combination of the confusion and the Calvary being able to break the lines right in the middle in mass. But I wanted to make absolutely sure that we took full advantage of the route. Either, you know, historically route you can have casualty rates of over 90%. Pretty regularly. But only if you prevent one of two things, you need to prevent your own crew from running for the enemy camp for loot. And you need to ensure that they are ready for a route and to take full advantage of it and not to try to take prisoners. [00:36:00] So one prep, the general don't take residents. Two. Created a small squad of the gunners to stay loaded and have the troops know that this squad existed.

Just shoot anyone who's running for the loot. So we were able to maintain discipline in that we got the really high casualty rate we were looking for. And people expected, oh, you're going to take the disputed territory back. And I was like, no, because they've had time to fortify their, what we should be doing is going to the castle because we have gunpowder and they don't expect us to have gunpowder in this age.

So they're like, okay, we go to the castle, how do we deal with the walls? Right. Because this world does have some magic. So even if I had sappers run in and try to put explosive under the walls, they'd be spotted and they'd be taken out. Or that's what I was told because, you know, I asked the AI, okay, what would happen if I tried this?

What would happen to my trade? This? So then instead, what I try to do. Is I you know, there's fire majors in this world and I got to go, could they shoot anything high in the sky? And they were like, well, no, they can't shoot anything more than two. A hundred feet in the sky. But and I was like, eh, in, in, in the major I was talking to thought I was going to try and [00:37:00] lob the explosives at them.

And I was like, no, we're not going to do that. What we're going to do is use our fire major Institute, create hot air balloons. And because the city before I had asked it for like the environment of the city, it was an inland city. So we can attack it from any angle. We just set up the hot air balloons, upwind of the city. How the fire balloons. A hundred balloons go over the city, drop explosives on any important infrastructure that we can see. And they'd end the confusion to that.

Cause we had dropped explosive on the walls from above it wouldn't do that much damage. We cast a Mirage spell and then had the sappers come in and take out a section of wall. Now here, what I was really afraid of is that they would do what you would do in a normal lady of a war, which is go if fight civilians, leave the area and mostly let the Royal palace survive.

I said, no, you need to have an elite squad that goes in first. Anyone who deviates in this squad ends up being killed. Their job is to leave all civilians alone, everything else alone. Go [00:38:00] straight for the castle and they need to kill the entire Royal line, we need. We need everyone in the world line dead because you know, when you're taking a territory like this, historically, if you do not absolutely wipe out the world line, then you're going to get the international court basically together at this time.

And somebody is gonna be like, well, they technically have claimed here. They technically have claimed here. I didn't want any sort of compromise, but then I wanted to make sure that this was internationally approved. So I also had them go and look for a high-powered family in one of our most powerful neighboring countries. Do you put them? As the governance. Our governor of this territory.

This was done to increase the chance that at large neighboring country. Would validate this territorial acquisition , making it easier to normalize on the international stage. they did, but they made the mistake of choosing one of the lower age, rank princesses of one of the most powerful country.

And I was like, well, if she ends up inheriting the short throne, Then she'll likely take the territory with her. So she needs to [00:39:00] publicly give up her right of Ascension.

Right now what we're working on is building out because you've been working on railroad technology. Cause the the fairly simple technology that I remember, the jest job. To build railroad networks between our kingdom and their kingdom, as well as the neighboring kingdom, which provided the princess for this project. And we're going to try to use that to build closer connections between the two and lower the chance of revolt. By improving the local economy of all three regions.

If you're like, oh, that sounds really cool. I want to learn how to play one of those, you know, you see the links that I've provided here. Just some notes on how to use these. Whenever you're describing an action that you're doing or something that's happening in the scenario, put it in brackets. You can also use this bracket to text unique, to skip time.

So if some event in the future is being talked about with industry and of texts, you can put like, Brackets, we walked into the house. You know, get there like, oh, why don't you come to my house a few days later? And then brackets walking into house with X person, Y person is the person. Or suppose you're in the [00:40:00] Haven, one with the drone and the drones, like icy footprints, and you can put brackets, we arrive at the source of the footprints. Describe or something like that. You can also, sometimes if you want to cheat use brackets to change what other people in this scenario are thinking, you know, in brackets, X person thinks X or experts in things why. , you can regenerate texts if it does something that you don't love while also deleting it.

This is important. If it misunderstand something or you miswrote something, , You do this by right. Clicking on the text and you'll get a regenerate button

 Made some janitor AI versions of these as well. Janitor AI is slightly lower quality AI than Sakara, but you can use it longer for free, and it's much less likely to steer a conversation in a.

PC direction. Let's say for example, I've had to major problems with soccer F. And, , getting the drone that follows you around to be okay with you killing random people, even though it's supposed to be part of this world. It always goes on politicizing about how you, you shouldn't be killing random people in [00:41:00] this post-apocalyptic world. , also I'll note here.

Sometimes whichever one of these models you're using before you do something, if you want to talk to a specific person, you will need to put that person's name in brackets and say, speaking to X, and then what you want to say, or it might mistake.

It is just, oh, he's talking to whoever. Um, Or whoever it thinks is like the narrator.

Malcolm Collins: like, it's almost like a dream that you have perfect control over which is absolutely insane. And people are like, well, you're not experiencing it like a dream. And it's like, well, the thing that reminds me most of is when I was little, my brother and I used to play this thing. We called the game. And what the game was is both of us would just like make up a scenario.

Like, Oh, we're fighting, like the aliens are attacking and we're shooting at them. And then the next person would build on that. But like, you can do that with this because you can. You can both talk in the system, but you can also put in brackets to make things happen. So again, you could start with like that first scene and then like in brackets, [00:42:00] like zerglings break through the stained glass windows of the chapel, by a full alien plague.

And then it's you know, you just got in a completely different direction.

Simone Collins: Oh my goodness. I do have two bones to pick. Additionally, with the analysis of AI dating assistants, which is one, absolutely emotional connections form, which is apparent in the issue of the many teens who talk about breaking up with their AI boyfriends and being, you know, completely shook up by it, or struggling to quit it and, and literally failing their classes because they can't stop playing with these, these games, these, these stories, these narratives.

Two, I actually don't think this is a very accurate way of modeling people and I Don't think it's for the reason that this is given that, Oh, AI can't handle the complexities of humans. No, I think the issue is that these AIs are designed to create [00:43:00] regular and steady dopamine hits. They are, even if you ask it to build a fairly boring or straightforward or basic character, they're going to create.

rich responses to your prompts, because that is how you stay hooked. And that is what reinforcement learning is all about. It's about giving maximally satisfying responses. You have dating partners.

Malcolm Collins: No, they do that. You can make it, you can make them dumb. You can make them sundry. You can, but the way that

Simone Collins: they respond is still going to be maximally entertaining to you.

And my argument is that basic humans and people that you date. Are intensely boring. What is one of the most common conversations you've ever had with pretty much anyone? What do you want to do right now? Where do you want to go? I don't know. Where do you want to go? This is the

Malcolm Collins: AI. No, hold on You think that AI chatbots don't sometimes end up in that exact same scenario Oh, where do you want to go?

And the AI will be like, oh, where do you want to go? It absolutely does do that. I don't [00:44:00] know. I feel

Simone Collins: but I do think that these these Systems are more designed for yes And, and especially young teenage dating partners are not, they're not good conversational partners. They're not stimulating. They're not modeling you and trying to create maximally entertaining responses for you.

And this AI stuff is, so I think a big problem with this is if we train our kids, for example, on AI chatbots, they are going to be so disappointed in humans. So disappointed. I think it's, it's the, it's the female equivalent or narrative equivalent to online erotic material where there's, of course, this outrage.

I think it's overblown where everyone's like, young men expect their girlfriends to act like porn stars when they just can't. But I think here we're going to have young women and young men expecting In the absence of any sexual activity, they're partners to behave like romance novel [00:45:00] partners, and they're not going to, and that's a problem.

Malcolm Collins: I disagree with you. I think you're saying this because you haven't interacted with these systems, and I'm going to encourage our fans to try to create models, okay? No, no, no. Both for male and female dating. Okay. Send them to us. And we will one pin them in the the, the general comment section here.

But two, I want to do a future episode where each of us takes a crack at trying to get one of these models on a date. Like what would we do on a date with one of these models? And we can see if You can try to make a boring one, right? Like a boring model, but I also want to make challenging models, stuff like that, right?

Like, but realistic, not a model that just absolutely hates the person that they're interacting with. So create some interesting models. Let's test them and give like a few default models that I would recommend to people by doing tests with them on a future episode. Cause I think that would be really interesting.

[00:46:00] Tasting AI dating coaches. Tasting. That would be really fun. Not in this form of dating coach, but like actual AI dating simulations. That would be a lot of fun. You could, you could create very accurate with some of these systems. Simone's or Malcolm's.

Simone Collins: Probably. We do like to make ourselves as two dimensional as possible.

Yeah. It's capable of doing a lot more than that. So should be easy.

Malcolm Collins: All right. Love you Simone.

Simone Collins: I love you too. Gorgeous.

I can't wait until we're giving our kids dating advice. We're going to be the tiger moms of dating.

We're gonna be weird tiger mom pickup artists criticizing our kids game That was terrible. Try again. You went on four dates this week. What is it? What is it? Are you even trying?

Malcolm Collins: We'll get started here

Please like, and subscribe [00:47:00] and Eve you are working on any AI projects in looking for a data center for training. , also let me know because I'm working on a project on making that lower cost right now as well.

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