Doer vs Dreamer: Smoke and Stack

SINNERS lead actor Michael B. Jordan and writer/director/producer Ryan Coogler break down the Academy Award®-nominated film and their 10+ year collaboration in this exclusive conversation with IN PROXIMITY host Paola Mardo.

Michael dives deep into his acting process for playing dual roles as Smoke and Stack, sharing how he uses character journals, key phrases from archival recordings, and physical details to build his characters. Ryan reveals his screenwriting approach and his never-before-heard timeline mapping the Smokestack Twins’ backstory, including romances with Mary (Hailee Steinfeld) and Annie (Wunmi Mosaku), and their time in Chicago with Al Capone. Ryan also kicks off this very special episode by making lattes, sharing how his love for coffee connects to filmmaking and acts of service for the cast and crew. It's gonna be a real ring-a-ding-ding… so grab a cup of coffee (or Irish beer or Italian wine) and enjoy!

WATCH THIS EPISODE ON YOUTUBE

(00:00) Smokestack Twins Lore
(00:30) Host Paola Mardo intro
(04:30) The boss today and Michael’s espresso life
(06:00) Ryan makes us coffee: Cannes, George Clooney, set coffee culture, abstract latte art
(09:30) Acts of service
(12:20) From FRUITVALE STATION to SINNERS
(14:35) 1A and 1B on the call sheet, why number 1 on the call sheet means leadership
(19:00) Questions Michael asked Ryan after reading the SINNERS script, the surreal juke joint montage, Stack and Mary
(23:16) Smokestack Twins Lore
(27:12) Stack does Smoke’s hair
(28:38) Smoke’s tremors
(30:55) Journals as part of Michael’s acting process
(32:55) When Smoke and Stack broke up, Ryan’s timeline spreadsheet, Mary, Annie, LORE (!), Chicago, Al Capone
(36:30) How much older Smoke feels from Stack
(38:00) Are you Smoke or Stack? Delta Slim, Mary, mystery, Ryan’s script to Michael’s acting performance
(40:00) “When the actor becomes the expert on the character… the twins are his now… then twins belong to the movie”
(40:25) Stack being a liar, Smoke telling the truth
(42:00) Mike’s improvised moments, Smoke versus Hogwood
(45:23) Preparing for the roles of Smoke and Stack, dialect coach, physicality, different sized shoes, chakra work, childhood trauma
(49:30) Key phrases
(50:35) “Made in Mississippi" documentary archival recordings (directors: William Ferris, Judy Peiser)
(51:51) Drawing from history and real people to bring characters and script to life, Michael’s and Ryan’s family history, sharecroppers, ancestry, Uncle James
(53:22) Scene Breakdown: Smoke teaching a young girl to negotiate, “numbers in conversation”
(56:11) Smoke as “a fun character to write but it was a really fun character to see Mike play”
(58:05) “These are very BAD men”
(58:59) Mike is “like a Tom Hanks!”
(1:00:30) “He never knifed nobody… that I know of!”
(1:04:00) Prox Recs

SHOP OUR PROX BOOKS RECS ON BOOKSHOP.ORG

LEARN MORE AND READ THE TRANSCRIPT AT PROXIMITYMEDIA.COM

WATCH/LISTEN TO IN PROXIMITY
YOUTUBE
APPLE PODCASTS
SPOTIFY

FOLLOW PROXIMITY MEDIA
INSTAGRAM
TIKTOK

IN PROXIMITY IS A PRODUCTION OF PROXIMITY MEDIA
Host, Director, Producer: Paola Mardo
Executive Producers: Ryan Coogler, Zinzi Coogler, Sev Ohanian
Theme Song and Additional Music: Ludwig Göransson
Co-Director and Director of Photography: Patrick Epino
Sound Designer and Mix Engineer: Ken Nana
Editor: Patrick Epino
Production Sound Mixer: Mark Patino
Camera Operator: Josh Ortiz
Associate Producer: Celine Mendiola
Production Coordinator: Joy Woo
Production Assistant: Devin Saddler
Production Intern: Ben Caloza
Social Media Coordinator: Alexandria Santana
Motion Graphics Designer: Apollo Baldoz
Barista: George Stevenson