The Numbers Are the Numbers, Joe.

NBC News has learned the special counsel investigating former president Donald Trump's handling of classified documents now is seeking to compel a lawyer for the former president to testify before a grand jury. The source says special counsel Jack Smith has asked a judge to allow prosecutors to invoke what is known as the crime fraud, except exception. Legal experts talk to about this suggest that attorney client privilege, it's real, it's sacrosanct, but it's narrower than people think.