The machine of megachurch ministry

Most versions of faith are built to keep things stable, predictable, and controlled. That’s kind of the problem.

In this episode, Stuart sits down with Jeremy Jernigan to talk about his book The Edge of the Inside (https://amzn.to/4dFlzlQ) and the idea that real spiritual growth doesn’t happen in the center of organized religion—it happens out on the edges, where things are less certain and a lot more honest.

Jeremy draws from Richard Rohr’s concept of “the edge of the inside” to describe a space many people are finding themselves in: not fully “in,” not fully “out,” but somewhere in between. It’s a place where inherited beliefs start to crack, questions get louder, and the pressure to perform certainty finally gives way.

They get into why so many people are stepping away from church structures—not because they’ve lost faith, but because they’re trying to salvage something real from it. Deconstruction comes up, not as a collapse, but as a necessary step toward something more grounded and less performative. It’s less about tearing things down for the sake of it, and more about refusing to pretend something works when it clearly doesn’t.

A key thread in the conversation is the difference between fragile faith and what Jeremy calls anti-fragile faith. Fragile faith needs everything to stay intact—no tension, no contradiction, no hard questions. Anti-fragile faith does the opposite. It actually grows under pressure. It expects disruption. It can handle doubt without falling apart.

They also reframe the cross—not as a neat theological answer, but as a pattern. What looks like failure, loss, or collapse can actually be the beginning of something more honest and durable. That shift matters, especially for people who feel like their faith has “failed” them.

There’s also a practical side to this conversation. What do you do when your old community doesn’t fit anymore? How do you find people who won’t try to fix you or pull you back into certainty? And how do you keep moving forward without needing everything nailed down?

If you’ve been sitting in that in-between space—too aware to go back, not sure where you’re going next—this episode names that experience without trying to clean it up.

Big thanks to these outlets that make the Christian Crazy possible:
• Right Wing Watch
• Christian Nightmares
• Friendly Atheist

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The Heretic Happy Hour Podcast • Wild Olive • Jonathan Foster • The Church Needs Therapy • Honoring the Journey Podcast • Spiritual Brewpub • Bros Bibles & Beer • Liminal Living • The Social Jesus Project • I Was a Teenage Fundamentalist • The God Squad Pod • Radical Love Live • Second Cup with Keith • Unbelief Podcast • High Minds Collective • Evangelicalish • Beyond the Torch with Todd & Leslie
 

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