What if the real driver of innovation isn't alignment—but conflict?
In this episode of The Innovation Show, Aidan McCullen is joined by Jeff and Staney DeGraff, co-authors of The Innovation Code, to explore a powerful idea: innovation emerges from the tension between opposing perspectives—not from consensus.
Drawing on decades of research and real-world application, they introduce four archetypes that shape how individuals and organisations innovate:
- The Artist (creation & ideas)
- The Engineer (process & execution)
- The Athlete (performance & results)
- The Sage (values & culture)
Each brings strengths—and blind spots.
The key? Not eliminating conflict—but orchestrating it.
In this episode:
- Why alignment can actually kill innovation
- The role of constructive conflict in high-performing teams
- How different mindsets clash—and why that's essential
- The lifecycle of innovation and who leads at each stage
- Why organisations fail when they can't change their worldview
- How to build cultures of adaptability and reinvention
Featured Book:
The Innovation Code by Jeff & Staney DeGraff
Find the DeGraffs: https://jeffdegraff.com
Aidan McCullen is a Thinkers50 Innovation Award winner, keynote speaker Ireland, and host of The Innovation Show—the only podcast ever to receive a Thinkers50 award.
