Financial Costs and Ethical Lines

In this episode of Based Camp, Malcolm and Simone Collins dive into the viral controversy surrounding Kristi Noem’s husband, Bryon Noem, and his alleged involvement in the bimbofication fetish scene — including leaked messages, photos, payments to sex workers, and the couple’s apparent marital mismatch amid long-rumored infidelity on her side.

They explore why this story hasn’t blown up into a bigger scandal on the right (or left), how society has normalized “degenerate” kinks like furries, transformation fetishes, and bimbofication, and whether this shift has positive or negative externalities. The conversation covers:

* The psychology and arousal pathways behind bimbofication (loss of autonomy/control, body transformation, escapism)

* Why people on both sides are mostly shrugging it off

* Misunderstandings in the Noem marriage (she reportedly thought he was gay)

* Comparisons to other fetishes (vore, ification, etc.) and how common they actually are

* Dangers of stigmatizing kinks vs. engaging with communities that can warp identity

* Advice for parents: de-romanticize sex, teach impulse control in a world full of “sirens,” and avoid feeding kids to ideological capture

* Cultural observations on the Trump administration’s “Mar-a-Lago face”/bimbo aesthetic and broader societal vibe shifts

Expect unfiltered talk about human sexuality, evolutionary misfires, AI roleplay as a safer outlet, and why old-school shame tactics no longer work in the internet age.

If you enjoy deep, nerdy dives into taboo topics without performative outrage, hit like, subscribe, and drop your thoughts below — what’s your take on bimbofication and cultural normalization?

Show Notes

It was recently revealed that Bryon Noem, husband to Trump’s former Homeland Security secretary Kristi Noem is involved in the bimbofication scene, something which he CONFIRMED

Coverage of this has been extremely disappointing: Either “ew what” or “leave this poor man alone” (e.g. NY Times: “In South Dakota, Neighbors Feel Sorry for Kristi Noem’s Husband”)

* Though I do appreciate that people are being pros to Bryon, who has no doubt been through it

* “In interviews with locals and friends of the couple before and after The Daily Mail published its pictures, the prevailing sense that emerged was this: People can’t help but feel sorry for Bryon Noem. His marriage had been the talk of the prairie since long before Tuesday.”

* On the edge of Castlewood, there is a gas station that sells AR-15s. Dozens of animal heads hang from the walls. “Kristi for Governor” stickers stick to the countertops. One man who was in there Tuesday morning looked at the report in The Daily Mail and shook his head sorrowfully. He didn’t know what to believe about Bryon Noem. Only that he liked him. “Such a nice man,” he said. “It just tears me up.”

* ““Must be A.I.,” a burly cattle rancher named Kevin Ruesink said as he inspected pictures of his neighbor Bryon Noem that had been published by The Daily Mail on Tuesday morning.”

* The rancher squinted at them with a mixture of suspicion and pity. “I grew up playing ball with Bryon,” he said. “I’ve never known him to be part of stuff like that. I don’t believe that at all.”

I personally want, and think people deserve, better coverage of the fetish and better conjecture about the way it played out between Kristi and Bryon.

Bimboficiation 101

* The word bimbo has been around since the 1920s to refer to an attractive but dumb woman

* Before it referred to a foolish or inconsequential man

* Comes from Italian bambino for baby/child (so many the original “bimbo” was like “manchild”)

* Why is Bimbo bread called BIMBO BREAD?

* Bimbo bread’s name was created by the founders in Mexico in the 1940s as a coined brand word, most commonly explained as a blend of “bingo” and Disney’s “Bambi.

* SUUUUURE

* According to the company’s own historical notes, “Bimbo” first appeared on a 1943 name shortlist alongside options like Pan Rex and Pan Azteca, and the leading internal explanation is that they combined “bingo” with “Bambi” to get a short, childlike, friendly-sounding name. Later, they realized that bimbo is also informal Italian for “child” (from bambino) and that similar sounds in Chinese resemble the word for bread, but these meanings were discovered after the name was already chosen. The English slang sense of “bimbo” developed separately and was not part of the original branding decision in Spanish-speaking markets.

* Bimbofication is a fetish and subculture centered on the erotic or performative transformation of a person (of any gender) into an exaggerated, hyper-feminine “bimbo” archetype. This typically involves adopting traits like massive breasts (often via prosthetics, implants, or art), plump lips, heavy makeup, blonde hair, skimpy clothing, a ditzy or submissive personality, and heightened sexuality—turning the individual into a caricatured, uninhibited sex object or “Barbie doll.”

* The specific bimbofication fetish (the process or fantasy of transforming into or creating a bimbo) emerged from broader online transformation fetish communities in the late 1990s and early 2000s. It grew out of related kinks like:

* Breast expansion

* Body modification

* Erotic hypnosis

* Sissification (feminization)

* It often overlaps with submissive roleplay, where participants (or their partners) embrace “brainless” personas for escapism, stress relief, or gender exploration. Many involved are heterosexual men, though it’s not exclusive

* The fetish emphasizes transformation as the core erotic element—whether fantasy (art, captions, hypnosis files), roleplay, or real-world modifications (fillers, implants, etc.)

* Search volume-wise, it’s in a cluster of fairly obscure sexual interests

* Only became a genre around 2010; leveled off in growth after 2014

* According to Zipper Magazine, this is when it became an established tag in fetish art. Figures like “Pink” (of Pink Bimbo Academy) provided frameworks around 2016. Platforms like Clips4Sale added dedicated categories. Content creators documented real-life journeys involving surgery, hypnosis, and wardrobe changes.

* Pretty close to sissification from 2016-2026 (sissification was bigger before)

* More obscurely, close to:

* Taratophilia (attraction to monsters)

* Dwarfed by

* Crossdressing, but it’s trending downward in popularity

* Vore (which I would have thought was much more obscure)

* All are drawfed by “hentai”

* How people engage with the concept

* Related searches

* bimbofication meme

* Deviantart

* Reddit

* ao3

* reverse bimbofication meme

* bimbofication aesthetic

* de bimbofication meme

Bryan Noem

* Daily Mail: “When approached for comment about the photos, which showed him wearing huge fake breasts while speaking to “bimbofication” fetish models online, Bryon Noem told The New York Times: “I will at some point. Today is not the day. I appreciate your heart.””

* What he allegedly did (photos are timestamped to early 2025, which is also when the second Trump administration started)

* Interact with at least three women

* Who participate in the bimbofication scene

* Involves extreme saline breast/lip injections

* One may be Lydia Love

* Who is busty, but… otherwise unremarkable? I wouldn’t think she was weird if I walked past her in a grocery store.

* Get photos from them

* Engage in roleplay

* Which involved submissive roleplay

* Whereby the women would turn him into a girl

* He would compliment their bodies while wishing for “huge, huge ridiculous boobs” of his own

* Wearing his makeshift breasts + a flesh-colored crop top, skin-tight pink hot pants or shorts, figure-hugging leggings/yoga pants, and a white top stretched over the breasts

* BIGGEST PROBLEM IN MY VIEW: He sent at least $25,000 total (over roughly 14 months, while his wife was DHS Secretary) via Cash App and PayPal.

* Payments to one woman were regular deposits of $500–$1,000 under the “Jason Jackson” name. With Lydia Love specifically, he paid $25 per minute for dirty-talk/webcam sessions (10–15 times over an 18- to 24-month period, with the last around six months before the reports). Payments sometimes delayed, leading to friction with at least one model.

* He reportedly told at least one participant he did this to relieve stress from his personal life (including awareness of his wife’s rumored affair) and that he loved his wife/family but continued the behavior intermittently.

Kristi Noem

* Rumored to be having an affair with her top aide, Corey Lewandowski

* Evidence:

* Did not deny it when asked while under oath in a congressional hearing

* Multiple eyewitness accounts from named and unnamed Republican/political sources describing public affectionate or intimate behavior.

* People call the affair the “worst-kept secret in DC”

* Incidents

* August 2020, Republican Attorneys General Association (RAGA) meeting at The Cloister resort, Sea Island, Georgia: Former Trump operative Charles Johnson (named source) and two other attendees reported seeing Noem discreetly take Lewandowski’s hand and place it in her lap while he put his arm around her back. Sources described “obvious affection.”

* December 2020, Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort: Multiple sources (including at least three cited) witnessed Noem sitting on Lewandowski’s lap and “playing grab-ass.” One described it as “the usual stuff that drunk people who are having affairs do”; another thought they were a couple because they were “all over each other.”

* 2021 CPAC, Hyatt Regency Orlando, Florida: At least one source (with others implied) saw them “making out” and getting “handsy” at the hotel bar in full view of 100–200 political operatives, journalists, and officials. The source called it “absurdly blatant and public.”

* 2025: A reported incident in which Lewandowski allegedly confronted/fired a pilot mid-air over a missing “heated blanket” belonging to Noem (later described by some outlets as a cover story involving a bag with potentially embarrassing items).

* In Bryon Noem’s reported 2025–2026 online fetish chats (exposed March 2026), one model claimed he told her his wife was having an affair with an adviser and “there’s nothing I can do about it.” (Bryon has denied discussing the affair specifically.)

* Some speculate this is why she was excused from her Homeland Security secretary role

The couple

* Married since 1992

* Three adult children, grandchildren

* How they likely dealt with this

* Maybe Bryon started this when stress peaked with Kristi’s establishment as Homeland Security secretary.

* He’s working in a very humble insurance shop, trying to do his thing

* Meanwhile his wife is cheating on him, flying all over, living in luxury

* Pretty much anyone would find this stressful

* Maybe Kristi thought he was gay

* Political commentator Ryan James Girdusky told the It’s a Numbers Game podcast in August 2025 that there was some “D.C. gossip” that a top Cabinet official, rumored to be Noem, was casually admitting that her husband was gay. “A reporter walked up to her and said, ‘Why are you having this affair? Why haven’t you met up with your husband? Why aren’t you divorcing your husband?’” Girdusky said. “And she blurted out to this reporter, who I know, and said, ‘Oh, my husband’s gay.’” (The Daily Beast)

* Implies a huge amount of mental separation (in addition to their physical separation)

The sad thing about sexual interests

* I bet a lot of people just don’t feel comfortable talking about their kinks with partners

* But when you don’t, you might end up with a partner spending $25K on bimbo scene ladies when this could have been handled differently

Episode Transcript

Malcolm Collins: [00:00:00] you immediately hear there is one official at the Trump administration that is into bimbo ation, and here I am like. You sure?

It’s only one. Like I have seen the way that women dress in the Trump administration. So literally you, you call Mar-a-Lago face. Marla. But what Mar-a-Lago face it looks like is bimbo.

Simone Collins: Cation. Cation.

Malcolm Collins: Right?

Like the White House has literally become a bimbo. Cation. Exactly. Oh my Holly,

Simone Collins: someone needs to

make a bimbo cation like meme, but of like, of the White

Malcolm Collins: House, like women walking into the White House and then women walking outta the White House looking like the Mar-a-Lago face.

Simone Collins: Oh my God.

we could just use a progression of Christie Nome over time and say,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, just use a progression.

No.

Would you like to know more?

Malcolm Collins: Hello Simone. I’m excited to be here with you today. Today we are going to be talking about the controversy around Christie no’s husband’s fetish coming out and the cheating allegations. But the interesting thing about this, from my [00:01:00] perspective, and there’s really a, a, a meta story to explore here, is that people don’t seem to care.

Which on, on, on the right, on the left, it’s like historically a fetish comes out and everybody needs to be performatively saying how gross and how weird it is and how le you know.

Simone Collins: Oh, they are, they are like, Brett Cooper was like, Ew, I don’t wanna know. Ha ha ha.

Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. I’ve, I’ve gone through a few of those.

Right. But largely speaking, the, the normal response from, from most of the commenters is just like blowing it off. Like it’s another day in the park to see something like this. And so I want to explore. Why that’s the case? Like how, how has society changed? I mean, part of it is kind of obvious, right?

Like, you go back and you watch like the, the TV hosts, the, when they found out what furries were, right?

Speaker 7: What’s a

Speaker 8: furry convention?

Speaker 7: Did I get that wrong? I

Speaker 8: leaped there. Oh [00:02:00]

Speaker 9: gosh.

Speaker 7: Okay. Officials were called when I, yeah. Strong odor of chlorine’s. What spread?

Speaker 9: I think they had to evacuate the building and everything. Set the hotel guests along with convention attendees into the cold night. Many still dressed in their furry, furry possums.

Speaker 10: We have a lot of costumers out here with big, fluffy costumes that’ll keep people warm. So at this point we’re not at all worried.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. , And today if a host pretended to not know what a furry is, I’d be like,

Simone Collins: I’m sorry.

Yeah. This is embarrassing.

Malcolm Collins: Everybody knows what a furry is. The only reason you would pretend not to know what a furry is is because you’re a furry, right? Like, and you’re, you’re like, overplaying your hand on this one.

Simone Collins: What?

Malcolm Collins: No. Well, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, we’re, we’ve sort of entered a world where this stuff is [00:03:00] normal on the, even the Right, right.

And I, and I want to go into like, what that means is that degen. Societally in a, in a negative way? Or is it does it, does it have positive externalities?

Simone Collins: Well, I mean, I’m, I’m also gonna make an argument though that there is insufficient understanding and willingness to engage with this. Like while at the same, so what I’m seeing is on the left, people are like, man, like who cares?

And, you know, I just feel bad for this guy. And on the right it’s mostly like, ew porn is bad, but like not a big deal. But I also am seeing even within like the relationship there is clearly a huge amount of misunderstanding. And I think broadly the either like, I don’t care, this doesn’t matter, or sex negative response or sex positive response, but not actually engaging with what this is and why he was doing it.

And there are elements of this not to, and I’m not, I’m not, I’m not kink shaming, but like there are elements of what he did [00:04:00] that I would be utterly unforgivable. That. I’m like, no, you, yes,

Malcolm Collins: yes, yes. No, I, I, I agree

Simone Collins: that, you know what, you know what I’m gonna say? Like,

Malcolm Collins: it reminds me of oh, let’s see. I didn’t remember what I was gonna say.

All right, continue.

Simone Collins: So I, I think it’s also important to shed a little bit of flight on ification in general. I, I want people to kind of understand, understand,

Malcolm Collins: oh, okay. I remember what I was gonna say. Yeah. So this reminds me of when you’re talking about like the media not getting it, um mm-hmm. An instance where that happened recently was when everybody went around and said the, the attempted Trump assassin was a furry because he had like some for furry pornography, but it was because he had a very, very specific fetish of women with masculine bodies like hyper masculine bodies.

That is not easy to find. So it’s clear that he was just taking anything from that fetish category he could find, and he like, that’s something that like. Normal DJs on the internet would immediately get and understand. But [00:05:00] if you’re too separated from that, you’re like, oh, furry porn. He must be a furry, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Anyway, continue.

Or do you want me to get started with the series of events?

Simone Collins: Yeah, go ahead and get started with a series of events, and then I’ll throw in stuff that I think is important for people to be aware of. I feel like you’ve missed it.

Malcolm Collins: Okay. So Christie Nome for a long time there has been rumors that she was cheating on her husband.

An administration staffer has said it’s an open secret. They fly on a private plane frequently with a bed in the back of it. And when she was questioned about this under oath, she didn’t say no. She just went on a long rant about how dare you talk about this sort of thing. Mm-hmm. And when the husband basically, I’m, I’m trying to point out, like she definitely was cheating on his husband and everybody knew about it.

And when the husband was asked by one of the people he was sexting wiz and cheating whi he said. Yeah, but there’s nothing I can do about [00:06:00] that. Right? Like, whatever, what am I supposed to do about her cheating on me? Basically? My favorite thing about this entire controversy is, by the way, Simone.

Okay? When it first broke. Like, like when one of the people he was sexting with first realized who he was which ended up leading to this leaking and going public and everything like that, eventually down, down the stream, their initial reaction was to chastise him a bunch for putting his wife’s career at risk.

They were like, do you know how hard your wife worked to get where she is? She is a high profile public figure. You could destroy everything with what you’re doing right now.

Simone Collins: And this is where I just get, it’s, it’s so, and, and this is why I, I, I appreciate the New York Times article on this called in South Dakota, neighbors Feel sorry for Christie Noam’s husband because in that they, they even include, have you seen the picture of like his little insurance office?

Malcolm Collins: No.

Simone Collins: Okay. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll send it to you on [00:07:00] WhatsApp.

It’s, it’s this, this very like, humble, sad little place where, where he works and everyone just sees him as super friendly and it’s, it’s like a very. It’s this very specific font that I remember from like Ms. Word when I was a kid that reads old fashioned service, easy to use pie, no insurance.

Oh my. And it’s just this really sad looking cinder block, brick building. You know, here he is by the way, like the, the photos that were leaked the earliest timestamp is to the beginning of 2025, just as Trump’s second administration begins. And she disappears off to Washington like, you know, jet setting and flying and fundraising and living this glamorous life.

And here he is in this depressing, stinky insurance. Like, by the way, cheating on him with cor and downs. Yeah. With, yeah, his top aid though. She had been doing that probably since at least 2020 because there are stories going back until then that are like pretty, pretty flagrant. [00:08:00] Like in August of 2020, even Republican Attorneys General Association meeting there was this, there a former.

Oh my God. Wait, hold on. Hold on. Former Trump operative Charles Johnson named Source Ring. A Bell, Malcolm.

Malcolm Collins: Wait, do we know him?

Simone Collins: He’s the guy who also is famous for being the one who told the FBI that Epstein was a Oh, that

guy. He was a

Malcolm Collins: crazy

Simone Collins: guy. He was operative. He, but yeah. So Charles, sorry.

Malcolm Collins: So this requires explanation for fans as well.

So we know a guy who clearly had mental health issues. He accused me of being a Mossad operative. Said it was very obvious that I Did he he

Simone Collins: was at our party. Did he just,

Malcolm Collins: yeah. And I was like, I I guarantee you I am not AAD acronym.

Simone Collins: Oh, no. But then also another, another friend who, who is a journalist, was there and she was like, yeah, he thinks that I’m a spy, but he also links to me all the time.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So [00:09:00] he constantly leaks to journalists. He constantly leaks to the FBI, but half of the time it’s something completely made up and fabricated, not half the time, 90% of the time. And in the, the Epstein files, he’s actually cited as the core source for Epstein working for Mossad.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: So,

Simone Collins: so yeah. I mean, if, if, if, if Epstein is the

Malcolm Collins: Moad operat, no.

Like, how are you, I mean, when I say this, we hold parties that like have high profile people, high profile journalists come. So a lot of them are like name figures you would know. He like literally. Had accused at least 25% of the people at our party, including his, like longtime friends of being spies or one of, in his world, it’s like Israel and China and like the CIA and like everybody’s working for one of them.

Or, and in Russia. Russia,

Simone Collins: how, like it would be so vibrant and rich to occupy Candace Owens reality. It would be very vibrant and fun to occupy Charles Johnson’s reality, who’s, I think he’s in jail [00:10:00] right now, or he got arrested. You know, he got out or Yeah, like recently got out. But yeah, I mean he like served a lot of time in solitary because he was being.

I think singled out or something there, there’s gotta be more of a story there. Maybe someday we need to do an episode on him. ‘cause what a, what a character. I love characters. But anyway, so, but he, he and two other attendees at this 2020 Republican Attorney’s General Association conference reported seeing no discreetly take Lewandowski hand and place it in her lap while he put his arm around her back.

And other sources described obvious affection at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Resort in 2020. Multiple sources at least three who were cited, witnessed Nome sitting on his lap. Playing grab ass. One described it as quote, the usual stuff that drunk people who are having affairs do in 2021 in cpac at the Hyatt Agency in Orlando, at least one source with others.

Implied, saw him making out and getting handsy at the hotel bar in full view of 100 [00:11:00] to 200 political operatives, journalists and officials. The source called it, quote, observe absurdly, blatant and public. In 2025, there was this, and I’m sure you heard about this, there was this reported incident in which Le Wadowski allegedly confronted and then fired a pilot midair over missing a heated blanket that belongs to Nome.

Like you might’ve heard it like that. He, like, he lost her favorite blanket and then he was fired, but then they had to like hire him again ‘cause they needed to. Finish their flight. So he was rehired. And I don’t know what ultimately happened to him but this, this was later described by some outlets as a cover story involving a bag with potentially embarrassing items, but still it was, you know, her blanket.

And then in, like you said, Brian himself allegedly told that one of the women he was engaging with about his wife having an affair and there was nothing that he could do. But I just, one thing, just right away, like it’s clear that [00:12:00] this couple had really severe mismatch because they weren’t really in a

Malcolm Collins: marriage anymore in any sort of

Simone Collins: a functional context.

Well, and she also clearly didn’t understand him, so she just thought, I think she thought he was gay. This political commentator named Ryan James GSKi told the, the. It’s a numbers game podcast in August of 2025. So quite a while ago that there was some DC gossip that a top cabinet official rumored to be known was casually admitting that her husband was gay.

A reporter walked up to her and said, why are you having an affair? Why haven’t you met up with your husband? Why aren’t you divorcing your husband? Goers scared. And she blurted out to this reporter who I know and said, oh, my husband’s gay. So

Malcolm Collins: well, okay, so put yourself in her shoes if you caught him like.

Putting fake breasts on and inflating them. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And you’re a traditional Republican woman, you would probably [00:13:00] assume he is gay, right? Like

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That’s, that’s the normy take when you see something like that. Right?

Simone Collins: Oh, speaking of Normy takes, I take exception to all these people in the news who are like, it looks like you put balloons in his shirt.

You know what those look like? They look like the prosthetics that were worn by that school teacher in Canada.

Malcolm Collins: Yes.

Simone Collins: And they’re like, oh, they’re blues. I think they’re saying that ‘cause they look lopsided, but that’s because he’s a man who’s not experienced with arranging breasts under a shirt. That’s tight.

Okay. You, you get like,

Malcolm Collins: I, I should like the thing that gets me as well, and I think one of the reasons why this hasn’t turned into like a bigger scandal

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Is like you immediately hear there is one official at the Trump administration that is into bimbo ation, and here I am like. You sure?

It’s only one. Like I have seen the way that women dress in the Trump administration.

Simone Collins: That’s the thing too. Also, like when we were at the, at the White House, you there was like just a random woman checking in. Like they look like you [00:14:00] were like women. White House.

Is that the white? She just has Mar-a-Lago face.

Stop

Malcolm Collins: it. So literally you, you call Mar-a-Lago face. Marla. But what Mar-a-Lago face it looks like is bimbo.

Simone Collins: Cation. Cation.

Malcolm Collins: Right? Like the White House has literally become a bimbo. Cation. Exactly. Oh my Holly,

Simone Collins: someone needs to

make a bimbo cation like meme, but of like, of the White

Malcolm Collins: House, like women walking into the White House and then women walking outta the White House looking like the Mar-a-Lago face.

Simone Collins: Oh my God. Yes. Like actually though that is actually really meta and funny. We should explain what Bim ification is. So Bim Ification 1 0 1 first just. Let’s do some entomology. ‘cause I fricking like it. The word has been around since the 1920s to refer to an attractive but dumb woman. Just in case, you know, we have some English as the second language learners here.

Before that it was actually used to refer to a foolish or inconsequential man. Did you know that? So before the 1920s bimbo was a word that like, was like basically manchild. Oh

Malcolm Collins: yeah, I’ve I’ve heard it. Used to [00:15:00] describe men before.

Simone Collins: Oh, really? Well, it comes from the Italian word bambino, obviously for like baby or child.

But you know what’s really funny is have you, you’ve been to Mexico, right? No.

Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. Yeah, of course. I’ve been to Mexico.

Simone Collins: Oh yeah. We know. We’ve been to Mexico together. You’ve seen bimbo bread everywhere, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: And like every time you see it, aren’t you like, do they, like, do they know? Why is this called bimbo?

And so I actually have to look it up. ‘cause I don’t know. I just, I needed to know.

Malcolm Collins: Well, hold on. We and the US have a car company called Nova.

Simone Collins: Yeah. For

Malcolm Collins: people who don’t know, that means no go.

Simone Collins: Yes. But I mean, like, I think people who speak Spanish are more likely to be familiar with the word like Bimbo and Italian maybe, I don’t know, kind of, they’re similar languages.

But they, they apparently, they tried to argue that the name was created by the founders in Mexico in the 1940s, 20 years after Bimbo was commonly [00:16:00] understood to be, you know, refer, referring to like busty dumb women. Yeah. And they were trying, they, they tried to after explain that the, the word was a, a blend of the word bingo and Disney’s Bambi.

That is No, no. These men, it came from something else. Yeah. Were sitting in a boardroom and they were talking names, and the other names that they had were like pan Rex, Ben Azteca. And then they just, they were like, what about Bimbo? And I bet they’re sitting in this room and they’re like, oh, you know, actually, and they did it and it stuck.

And I think that’s what happened. But anyway, I digress. So Bimbo verification. Is a fetish and subculture that’s centered on the erotic and performative transformation of a person, of any gender. It goes both ways. And, and Malcolm, I can send you some, just like images of bimbo, ation of both men and women that that sort of turns any person into an exaggerated, hyper-feminine bimbo archetype.[00:17:00]

And it typically involves adopting traits like massive breasts or plump lips or heavy makeup or blonde hair, or skippy clothing or dizi or submissive personality and heightened sexuality. Mm-hmm. Like, you just turn them into like a, I’m a very sexy baby. And it, it emerged in the, the 1990s and early two thousands.

And it grew out of related kinks, like breast expansion, body modification, erotic hypnosis and specification.

Malcolm Collins: Well, it’s a, it’s a, in the category of kinks of because it’s, it’s sort of a few kinks layered on top of each other.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Any clear, so obviously you have transformation kinks. Mm-hmm. Which is a, a, a fairly common kink and other categories of that.

There’s actually one that’s just a reverse of bimbo. Ation,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Like

Malcolm Collins: the, the woman getting like smarter and nerdier.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Actually when you, I, I went through the Google trends and the, the top related searches include bimbo, ification, meme, and this is just, I can, again, I’ll share some images [00:18:00] with you of just like a woman who’s like, like me, you know, like flat chested, pale hair in a bun.

And then like it goes from that to like, like dumber and sluttier and then hotter, and then hotter and then bimbo at the end. And then, so bimbo, cation meme, deviant art, Reddit. A o three. This is all just to say that this is for,

Malcolm Collins: no, hold on, hold on. I, I’m not done here yet. I wanted to go over what I, so

Simone Collins: sorry.

Malcolm Collins: Go on. It’s a combination. It’s a layer fetish, so it’s a combination of the transformation fetish, right? Mm-hmm. Which I said often happen. You, you get like reverse bi modification, but you can get it for other archetypes like being a tomboy or something like that. Mm-hmm. And that it is also fairly common to do it with like animals or furries or something.

People do it. And the core draws of that particular people are like, what would draw somebody to a fetish like this? Like what? Arousal pathway. Misfiring. Mm-hmm. Sorry for people who are watching this and confused, like, [00:19:00] why I’m going into detail on this. We wrote a book on human sexuality and arousal patterns.

Simone Collins: The Priva dis Guide to Sexuality. You should check it out, but not if you like pedestal sex. ‘cause we get really like

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, we’re like, it’s,

Simone Collins: we take the romance outta sex ‘cause that’s what

Malcolm Collins: we do. Oh. Anyway. But the, the the thing that seems to be misfiring here is the idea of either a control pathway, like I have control over the person who is transforming or they have lost control or autonomy.

Well I

Simone Collins: have lost control ‘cause

Malcolm Collins: that’s what Yeah. I have lost control. Their autonomy. And

Simone Collins: he play with women. They would, he, he, they would f force him to become more bimbo fied.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. And they give him commands. Yeah. And they, it’s clear for him what he was most interested in was the idea of himself losing autonomy, right?

Yeah. That was like you

Simone Collins: compliment them and their bodies and talk about how he wanted really big boobs and stuff like that. And this is like, this is where the stress [00:20:00] relief comes in. This is where the escapism comes in. And like, honestly, going back to like his scenario, right? Wife is basically estranged cheating on him, putting him to shame.

He’s walking, you know, like not walking, driving every morning to the cinder block insurance office with depressing font on the sign out front, like. Yeah. Wants, yeah. Still waiting. Pass

Malcolm Collins: the time. And I, I, well,

Simone Collins: I mean, wouldn’t, wouldn’t he want to be the, the bimbo flying around the world with Mar-a-Lago face, like, kind of Right.

Like, who’s having all the fun in this family? Well, it’s also

Malcolm Collins: interesting that she had actually met many of the qualifications for his bimbo, ation fetish. Right. Like, she had done the transformation. She kind of dressed like a bimbo. She had gotten breast implants. It, it,

Simone Collins: and lip alert. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which he liked to see in women as well.

It wasn’t just something that he liked to do on himself. He liked

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: This transformation into a particular archetype. And

Simone Collins: it could have been so close, right. You know, like she could have just threaded the loop and instead she just thought he was gay.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, poor communication, I [00:21:00] suppose.

Simone Collins: Well that’s why, that’s why we’re talking about it, right? Is like, I just, it, it’s, it’s really sad that people are like, Ugh. Well, a

Malcolm Collins: lot of people are like, oh, she knew. She knew. And I actually, actually question that if she thought that he was gay, it might be that she, she knew because she said, I had no idea.

This is devastating for the family. And I actually think, given the timeline that we have this, it’s probably something he didn’t get into until after she was basically estranged and cheating on him constantly.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. That

Simone Collins: seems

Malcolm Collins: to be what we

Simone Collins: can tell from the, the timeline indicates that this, this, I mean, it’s only shown to be, to have been happening at the beginning of the Trump administration, like when he was sworn in, basically beginning of 2025.

So, yeah, like, I, I really think that’s kind of when it took off. It didn’t have to be this way,

Malcolm Collins: But continue.

Simone Collins: What’s interesting is that BIM Ification, I think one of the reasons why it’s so poorly understood is that one, it’s relatively new. Like as you said, it, it’s really related to a bunch of other things.

And, and so [00:22:00] it really wasn’t its own standalone thing until the 2010s, according to Zipper Magazine, this is when it became like an established tab or tag on like TV and art. And it, it, it, it didn’t even really have more established like lore or character based frameworks until 2016. And then platforms, like clips for sale added dedicated categories for things like bimbo verification.

So it kind of had to be made into its own genre. And what I think is really interesting too, and again, why people really don’t get this, is it is. Quite obscure. So, when I looked on Google trends in terms of search volume and that term, along with other terms that are really only gonna be used by people looking up like kinks or fetishes.

‘cause you can’t, for example, like look at transformation and know that everyone who’s Googling transformation is looking at it in a sexual context, right? Like it means like, it’s, it’s a very mainstream term and that’s, yeah. Unfortunately the problem with a lot of things. So to, to compare kinks is kind of [00:23:00] tough, but it is, it is clustered in the same level of search volume.

As ification, which is, is I think pretty kind of similar. It’s like, there’s a lot of submission in that. There’s a lot of escapism in, in, well, hold on.

Malcolm Collins: Ification has gotten really big these days.

Simone Collins: I know. Except that they’re pretty close. Do you wanna see the, the, I’ll send you

Malcolm Collins: that. Right. So that would mean it’s not a particularly obscure term?

Simone Collins: No. Okay. No, no, because here’s what’s really crazy. Alright. It, it is vore is bigger than both specifications.

Malcolm Collins: Of course it’s, sorry. Your understanding I

Simone Collins: vore is really obscure.

Malcolm Collins: vore is not obscure. When we did our book on sexuality and we, a calculation of what percent of the American population is into vore.

Specifically, I pointed out it was, it’s literally a population bigger than the fourth biggest state in the country. Right.

Speaker 5: If I remember correctly, off the top of my head, it’s around 3% for both men and women, [00:24:00] which puts it at the same rate as, , maybe like half same sex attraction. , If you’re wondering why, like what might be arousing this system of people like, oh, that’s such a weird thing to cause arousal. Not really. , You’re looking at extreme submission slash dominance fantasies here, , because it is not, oh, I, I suppose I should explain, the hunting somebody killing somebody, eating somebody.

That’s, that’s the general idea or having that happen to you of the, , vore paraphilia. That is, I think, a pretty classic example for a brain to misinterpret as extreme dominance or submission fantasies. , As to why dominance submission activates arousal pathways, if you look at other mammals, , they will instinctively present themselves to people who they see as their social betters, basically like lifting themselves as if they’re about to be mounted.

. What motivates this behavior, right? Like, do, do we [00:25:00] believe that an entirely parallel system for motivating this behavior evolved , and, and motivated it? Or do we think that evolution just hijacked the arousal system when somebody feels, , submissive or dominance was in certain social settings? It is very clear it’s a hijacked arousal system.

If it would make, it would make no sense to evolve an entirely parallel pathway to cause this. So, . Intense arousal from submission and dominance is a normal thing. , And misinterpreting submission and dominance is a, you know, even, even the, ,, bimbofication seems to be a misinterpretation of that within this context.

Simone Collins: People still act like it’s the weirdest thing in the world

Speaker 6: But how weird people pretend that they think a thing is, is not really correlary to how weird they actually think a thing is. Conservative influencers regularly dunk on the furry community and say, nobody could think an Anth throw person is hot [00:26:00] and then collectively freaked out when they made Lola Bunny less overtly sexualized.

I think this really exemplifies a drift and a change that we’ve begun to see within the two political parties over time is that the progressive party has become the party that is more likely to laugh at you for being weird or different or, you know, the, the two political commentators on the furry thing and the conservative party is increasingly becoming the party that’s like, yeah, like.

Whatever. Do whatever you want. I don’t care. Just do not involve children. Alright. , And then the Progressive party’s like, Hey, I will laugh at these people for being weird, but by God children must be indoctrinated into it. I.

And I think it’s been this sort of vibe shift where the conservatives who are not okay with this stuff are the ones who are increasingly joining the gryopers, who are increasingly voting left wing. , And, , I mean, we see this, right? They, they only say, oh, I’m voting left wing now I’m voting left wing.

I’m voting Democrat now. Like they’re being pushed out of the [00:27:00] party. And what will have another episode on this? , Because people act like there’s a war within the conservative party and there really isn’t. A war within the conservative party. Like, like for example, everything, Iran Wars, 90% of MAGA is pro Iran war.

Right? Like it’s, it’s not a, a, an even divide. It’s the ones who instinctively identify more with this progressive purifying. , Push that everybody needs to be like this. Everybody needs to act like this. ,

And when you go to a gryoper and you point out that, well, they’re just a generic progressive, like any other progressive, , and they’re like, no, no, no, no. I just, I just vote progressive.

We’re actually quite different on our side. Like some of us are gryopers and some of us are Islamists and some of us are, you know, pro LGBT.

, And, and they didn’t care about the difference between LGBT and Islamists, so they’re not gonna care about the difference between LGBT and gryoper, right? So it, it’s, it’s a party that already works naturally together. , We just shouldn’t confuse them as being ever on our side. The, high school bullies went to the [00:28:00] progressives, the ones who were otherwise cool, but like okay with people being different have largely moved to the conservatives and this has been the drift we’ve seen over the past 10 years.

Simone Collins: also, I don’t know. Paraphilia a attraction to monsters. Ification and ification are in the same, we’ll say bracket of volume as that.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And you can tell paraphilia is a really common fetish.

Simone Collins: I guess you’re right. Basically

Malcolm Collins: what you’re just learning is it’s a very, it’s a, it’s a fairly mainstream fetish.

Simone Collins: Well, but it’s dwarfed by, for example, cross-dressing and hei. So, I mean,

Malcolm Collins: HEI isn’t a fetish, it’s literally just the name for porn.

Simone Collins: I know. It’s just, but, but no, here’s the, you, you don’t understand Malcolm to so many people. ‘cause I listen to, I guess, more leftist normie content, which I would argue is both sex positive, but also normy. They’re like, what’s that? Like, you don’t un you’re, you’re so DGen n you’re still like steeped in it all that you’re like, well, obviously like that’s the most vanilla [00:29:00] thing you could possibly be looking at.

And like for other people, like this

is the thing. It’s, it’s

if they’re toes it, their minds,

Malcolm Collins: this is stuff you would know. Just if you are looking at like hint high sites or something like that. If you watch just random YouTubers, this stuff comes up in conversations all the time. Now this stuff comes up in songs now, right?

Like the, the normalization of like paraphilias and stuff like that within media content has really transformed over the last decade, I’d say. So I can be watching something like, what, what’s his the guy who reviews cartoons? I, I, I can’t remember what his name is. Very common. YouTuber and just randomly stuff like this drops.

You can even watch many like conservative streaming YouTubers. The reason why so many conservative streaming tuners are so familiar with this stuff is many of the ones who have sort of authentic backstories got their start in [00:30:00] environments like four chan. Which means they’re going to be very aware of all of these like weird subcultures and stuff like this.

Yeah. BI verification is particularly interesting as a, an like a paraphilia because it is largely associated with one specific image.

Like, there’s like one classic bimbo, ation image that is just like used. Really, really?

Simone Collins: Oh, the progression? Yeah. I sent you, I think I sent you what I think that example is on WhatsApp.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, you, you probably yeah, yeah. It’s the, the classic one. So much it’s like almost meme status, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: I, I think because of maybe it,

Simone Collins: well, when people Google it, they’re literally googling bim verification meme.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, it’s like a, it’s like a, a actual, like mainstream meme. You can’t use it on title cards.

By the way. I remember we had it for like a previous title card. I was gonna use it, and the video got auto flagged. So it’s seen as like actual. Pornography that, that one image that has nothing

Simone Collins: maybe

we could [00:31:00] just use a progression of Christie Nome over time and say,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, just use a progression.

No. What’s actually interesting about that particular mem unified image Uhhuh is that the person she turns into if you, if you look at it, right? Mm-hmm. Looks especially I’d say at her second to last stage

Simone Collins: mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Way closer to standard Trump administration woman. Yeah. Than she looks to any archetype that I was aware of at that time.

Simone Collins: Well, and what’s what’s even actually funny is one of the, one of the bimbo ation scene women that he that is to say Brian Nome engaged with, who’s been talking with the media, goes by Lydia Love. And com. If you compare her to Trump administration officials, she looks less bimbo. Look at her.

Really Look at her. Okay. Okay. I sent you a link on, on WhatsApp. She just looks like a normal [00:32:00] woman at a, like I’d see at a grocery store. I mean, she’s busty, but like,

Malcolm Collins: yeah, she just looks like a nor, well, a little chubby.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah, she, well, yeah. Normal woman at a grocery store. The average American woman is overweight.

Malcolm Collins: She was way less like a bimbo than I know.

Simone Collins: That’s what’s so funny. That’s what’s so funny. I, anyway,

Malcolm Collins: but also, by the way,

Simone Collins: tone it down for people

Malcolm Collins: wondering like, diversity of arousal patterns here and stuff like this. To me this chart, like if you look at most bi ification charts,

it’s like a chart of a woman becoming progressively less attractive.

Like I,

Simone Collins: yeah, we can

Malcolm Collins: tell this

Simone Collins: is not your thing.

Malcolm Collins: Not my thing at all. Like, because my brain codes it like intrinsically very easily as like a, a low class, mm-hmm. And I don’t wanna sleep with somebody who I think is low class. Like to me, my body sort of, it’s like they’ve been rolling around in trash all day or something like

Simone Collins: May, maybe this is, I mean, you, you [00:33:00] got this from your mother who like.

Her sexual orientation was money. You, you can’t,

Malcolm Collins: no. Well, it’s, it’s, it’s that I see it as a form of, of, of weakness and patheticness. Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve, we actually talk about this with like in sort of the ancestral backwards tradition. It was weird that they didn’t ever grape captives given how they were seen as

Simone Collins: people.

Oh. And maybe this is part of it is like, you’re, you’re too poor.

Malcolm Collins: Be no, your village died. Of course. I don’t wanna sleep with you. Like you,

Simone Collins: your loser nature might rub off on me.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah,

Simone Collins: okay. But like, actually, but Okay. But ouch. But okay. Not because I guess it’s good that they’re not getting attacked. The

Malcolm Collins: other interesting thing about Bim ification as, as like a transformation fetish Yeah.

Is the, what you would think of as a subcategory fetish, the forest transformation into furries is much more common than bimbo ation. Um mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. [00:34:00] Which

is

Simone Collins: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. People are more interested in being transformed into an animal than into a bimbo.

Malcolm Collins: Yes. Which is,

Simone Collins: that’s interesting.

Why? I guess animorphs, that’s how people discovered their food.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, if you’re gonna ask, remember the

Simone Collins: anor, the anamorphic covers were basically that. Don’t you remember? Do come on.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, oh, oh. If you’re gonna ask why it’s more common, I have hypotheses.

Simone Collins: Okay. Why?

Malcolm Collins: One is, it could be because the furry community acts as an on-ramp for this, so that it’s just hitting a wider audience.

Like anyone who’s into furries, like the furry community may be into it, right? Mm-hmm. So you’re, you’re already getting a baked in community, not just people with this one paraphilia. Mm-hmm. The second could be if the core turn on for you is something happening to a person’s body without their control and sort of their horror at that, the, the, the horror of that, like the, oh my God, I [00:35:00] can’t believe this is happening, is going to be higher and more dehumanizing with a furry thing than with bimbos.

Simone Collins: I wonder if anyone has watched that. Transformation and beauty of the beast. Of the beast into the prince just in reverse and been like yes.

Malcolm Collins: Well, people talk about the, the like precursors of this being really common in cartoons of our childhood.

Simone Collins: Oh, totally. Well, and like I said, animals, you remember the book series?

It was about kids who turned into animals.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I do. I I, I’ve never read it myself, but I remember

Simone Collins: I haven’t either. A

Malcolm Collins: thing

Simone Collins: again, that’s not our, that’s not our fet,

Malcolm Collins: like deep lore or something. Like, I should check out the lore of anor.

Simone Collins: Oh, an lore of anor. There’s gotta be some explanation. Maybe just that also that, what was that one where like a woman turned into like Quicksilver, you know, she got, she turned silver and like melted.

Is that like the original, like goo girl fetish or something? I don’t know. Who knows? Who knows?

Malcolm Collins: Turned into still, oh, the Capri Sun one. Yeah.

Speaker 2: Coming at you. [00:36:00] Capri Sun by the pitcher. So whenever you want, you can make as much as you want. All natural Capri Sun drink mix.

Malcolm Collins: No, actually what

Simone Collins: I love the nineties. That was, that was

Malcolm Collins: cool. Actually, the funny thing about like the whole go girl fetish thing, Uhhuh, it is not really seen outside of vor.

Like that’s. The, like, they almost always appear together. You, you don’t see it separate from that very frequently,

Speaker 2: . I’m a slime and I vore all the things which y’all even vore you, and you and you, and you

make all the rules. It’s true. The move.

Malcolm Collins: Which then makes me be like,

Simone Collins: weird.

Malcolm Collins: I would be susser about leaflets, avatar then if I didn’t know where she [00:37:00] got the avatar from. For people who don’t know where she got the slime girl avatar from, it was from a, because we talk about it in the episode where we’re, we’re talking with her recently.

Really fun episode of film. It was the, the, the child of two of her game, like players. I love it how she,

Simone Collins: she’s half fa too

Malcolm Collins: deeply and like almost pathologically as a GM of this world that she’s created, tries to make herself like the least empowered individual, right. Like,

Simone Collins: right. Because she was, it was like the receptionist for the guild.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, she’s the receptionist for the guil. She’s just playing the avatar of a child, of two of her party members. Right. Like,

Simone Collins: I didn’t even acknowledge that she put glasses on for, to join us.

Malcolm Collins: Oh, she did. Oh, we missed that. That’s cute.

Simone Collins: The snows though, is a great little hatchet there. Well, or a no of the glasses.

Well, glasses. An anime glasses adjustment. Well,

Malcolm Collins: well,

Simone Collins: anyway, where were we? Hold on. But so I, [00:38:00] I, I kind of get it, like, obviously this isn’t our thing, but definitely like for me this like, the idea of like surrender and letting go. I mean that’s like, that’s why I love being drunk, right? Is that like, that’s when like all of my hangups ‘cause like I’m always like at full clench, you know?

Yeah. And like the idea of not being at full clench, it sounds fantastic. So like maybe that would be, you know, a fantasy. I, I, I can, I can understand that. And I can, especially for someone like Brian Nome, who like. Can you imagine the media scrutiny? Just like, ugh, like, and, and being made full of by this like open secret for at the, at that 0.5 years.

You know, your wife gallivanting around like, yeah, you know, thinks you’re

Malcolm Collins: gay,

Simone Collins: but, and yeah, who thinks, Sue, come on. But here’s where he crossed the line and where I see it as unforgivable. Do you know how much money he paid to these women? Oh, he

Malcolm Collins: was paying [00:39:00] a lot from what I remember.

Simone Collins: Yeah. $25,000. $25,000.

You could just have an

Malcolm Collins: AI tell you

Simone Collins: these things. Like what? I know, I know. This is, this is why I’m like, know what? You guys don’t wanna talk about your kinks and fe this is what happens when you don’t talk about your kings and fetishes. She could have taken care of this so easily. She could have kept him satisfied and, and had her affair.

Everyone could have been happy. Probably kind of, I don’t know. I think he was, this was like, because he even told some of these women like that. He didn’t really wanna do this. And like he loved his wife and family, but like, you know, and he, and he would sometimes stop and then start again. Like, this was a fraught thing.

Yeah. He was known for going through a cycle of stopping and starting again. Yeah. Like, this is, but like, even like she, there are other ways he could have if he had to exercise this without wasting that much money. And like our internal rule with stuff like this is like, I don’t care what you do,

Malcolm Collins: as long as you

Simone Collins: don’t money, as long as [00:40:00] it’s your discretionary income.

Oh. And like, the way that our budget works or like our, our money works.

Malcolm Collins: It wasn’t his discretionary income.

Simone Collins: Well, yeah. I mean, maybe it was, and if it was, then I’m okay with it. I’m a little like. I judge him for like, is that how you wanna spend your money? Like there are better ways to spend,

Malcolm Collins: I don’t, I don’t judge you for the fetish.

I judge you for being that wasteful. Like

Simone Collins: that’s,

yeah. That, that is there. That like, there are, even if you wanted to like Max, like he had $25,000 and he’s like, I wanna blow this on bimbo ation. Sir, I could have taken you like for like, we, we could work out a whole budget for this. You’re gonna max this out.

We’re gonna get you the best prosthetics, we’re gonna get you the best, like role play. What are you doing? You know, like there are better ways. That are more cost effective, but this is what reality

Malcolm Collins: fabricator is partially for, right? I know.

Simone Collins: Yes. These

Malcolm Collins: who are watching this, just stop paying the random

Simone Collins: person.

If you’re a pri high profile public you

Malcolm Collins: can build your whatever button you

Simone Collins: want and it’s locally encrypted. No one will find it, no one will leak it. [00:41:00] It’ll see

Malcolm Collins: local encryption on our roleplay server.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: You know what, what even I, I think we actually even have a Bibo ification option in the auto story creator in the not say for word category.

Speaker 13: I went to double check this and on our rfab.ai not only do we have a bimbo, ation as one of the options there, but we have the masculinization and the feminization of a character. So, , we got the whole, , menu on this one. I.

Simone Collins: Do you, do you, because again, like it’s more obs obscure, relatively beginning new. I didn’t realize how new it was when I like actually went through and looked at it. I thought that was interesting. But I another thing just to get detail from all the, you know, gossip and stuff. So

Malcolm Collins: the reason why it’s so new is because I don’t think it’s a real kink in and of itself.

Simone Collins: No, no. It’s honestly, it’s like such a OneNote thing of like. That’s just such a small,

Malcolm Collins: what I mean asset, what I mean is it’s meant to, as I was trying to delineate earlier, it’s meant to [00:42:00] elicit specific, unusual arousal pathways tied to control over another person. Or losing control. Control.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Losing control.

Malcolm Collins: Control. That’s the fetish

Simone Collins: transformation is, it, is another like big one.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Transformation. Is the fetish on display here? Oh

Simone Collins: no, but also big boobs. Big boobs is a huge

Malcolm Collins: thing. Oh, also big boobs was another fetish he has, which is called which I, I find quite disgusting if I’m gonna be honest. Use word

Simone Collins: for,

Malcolm Collins: I’m not a fan of big

Simone Collins: boobs.

Like, also like, and that’s, that’s the really interesting thing about. Sexual interest as well is that there’s so many crossovers that like, ‘cause sometimes you’ll see like there’s content that’s just about really busty, like large impossibly busty women. And there are all sorts of different ways that that’s shown.

And then like, there’s a lot that’s about transformation. There’s a lot about losing control and there are all these different facets and ways that it’s manifested. And I think the best way to look at that is visualizations made of alas big kink survey. ‘cause you can really see like where these things cross over, where they’re more common, what’s more interesting to many women anyway.

What of, of the [00:43:00] specific things that he engaged in? So there were at least three women that he paid and, and interacted with. What seems to happen is like they’d send, he’d send photos. They would send photos, but then like during live sessions, they would role play and he’d be like, oh, you look great.

Whatever. Like, I wish I had boobs like that. And then he’d like, well, do you wanna see it? And like they would like force him to transform into a bimbo. He’d like probably wear the prosthetics and take pictures, and that’s how we ended up with that big picture. But and

Malcolm Collins: he wasn’t even like using protection, like a, a fake phone

Simone Collins: number or like he used a fake name.

But yeah, the problem is that he, he used his actual phone number and then when one of the women called that phone number, they got his insurance company line, which is, don’t use your work email and phone for your fun stuff. Don’t do that. PSA we woo, we woo. But he and I just wanna like point this out.

His bimbo clothing was yoga pants. And this is just another PSA to anyone who thinks it’s acceptable to go out wearing yoga pants. That is [00:44:00] bimbo clothing. It is now official and documented in the public record. People with bimbo fetishes when they wanna look like the bimbo is bimbo and they’re buying boobs that are this big, that are lopsided in, they’re tight shirts and they’re wearing tube tops.

They’re wearing, they’re wearing yoga pants. That’s bimbo clothing. So stop. Stop the commands.

Malcolm Collins: Stop. Stop. Do you, you have a, do you have a vendetta against

leggings?

Simone Collins: I do. I do. I do because it’s. It’s gross. Like unless, no, actually,

Malcolm Collins: The funny thing is, is people could see me as like, if, if I’m making it clear that like I think the bimbo look is unattractive and I like the opposite of that.

Look now people are gonna be like, oh look, he did that to his wife. Like, what’s the opposite? You reversed

Simone Collins: bimbo. Find me.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The, the most opposite of a PBO you could get is like this Puritan woman and like the big over the top thing and all that.

Simone Collins: Yeah. The, the farmer’s wife in American Gothic is like the [00:45:00] exact reverse.

Malcolm Collins: So yes, I did reverse whistles mother, my wife, the, into the Trump administration. ‘cause all of the other women looked like completely slutted up. And meanwhile my wife looks like a, an Amish. I, I think most people think that we’re Mennonites when we’re out in public.

Simone Collins: Yeah. People have come up to me and ask me, they’re like.

Oh, what is your, what is your religion? I’m like, oh, I’m a techno puritan. And then they like, slowly back away. It’s amazing. It is actually, I need, I I need that hat though. So

Malcolm Collins: the hat, oh, please. Come on. We gotta get you the hat, the witch hunter’s hat so everybody knows what you’re about, Simone. Yeah.

Simone Collins: Know. But yeah, so the yoga pants, I just, I also just had to highlight that ‘cause I was like, Illuminati, confirm they’re Slack clothing. I, I, I can’t handle it. It, they just really bother me. People know better. And, and, and the fact that one of his [00:46:00] chosen bimbo cation seen women who like profess she’s a professional bimbo, cation figure.

Looks less bimbo than your average Trump administration woman. We love the Trump administration. They’re fantastic. I think they have a look. I think they pull it off. And I love the consistency. I love a matching team. You know, like I, I want, I want that aesthetic uniformity, you know? ‘cause then, you know, I like that.

Like, I like that you can, like women in Dallas have a look, right. You know, like, group house women in, in Berkeley have a look. And it’s great. It’s very comforting. So this is not to knock on Trump administration, women and the Mar-a-Lago phase. Men’s Mar-a-Lago phase ‘cause they’re also getting work done.

Malcolm, I’m not sure if you, that what,

Malcolm Collins: what’s interesting is what is the Trump administration look like? If people are like, what, where did this look come from? It seems to come from actually very humorously given the Trump administration’s [00:47:00] goals Latina culture from Miami. Those, those are the only people I’ve ever seen dressed like this in real life.

Is Latina Instagram w****s in Miami? It is, it is certainly not from like, waspy, you know, old money, elite fashion sensibilities. It’s not even what I would see in like lower class New York outfits

. Ghostbusters, what do you want?

Malcolm Collins: that are more just like generic,

Simone Collins: crappy, no. You also see it like that heavy on fillers.

Long curly hair look is also super common in like the Mormon. Also like any sort of real Housewives. It’s, it’s that it’s, it’s a very new money. Attention grubbing. New, yeah, new money, attention grubbing look.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: It’s not new money. Look, even though he’s not new money.

Malcolm Collins: I have seen it in Mormons, but it came well before Mormons from Latinas in Miami.[00:48:00]

It has been on Latinas in Miami for about the past 20 years. It only got popular with Mormons after the Trump administration adopted it.

Simone Collins: Okay. Fair.

Malcolm Collins: It’s, it is a fundamentally Latina style, right? Like, the, the ‘

Simone Collins: cause the only thing that’s changed in the past 20 years is actually no, they even kept the lip liner.

Oh my God. Okay. Yeah. Nevermind. Yeah, I was thinking about like the classic like. Late nineties chola look with it was like sort of goldish lipstick with brown lip liner. I mean

Malcolm Collins: it’s, it’s a, it’s adjacent to the chola look like it’s a, like the Trump administration, like ironically dresses like cholas.

Simone Collins: Aw. And apparently one thing, this, this has been confirmed, but a lot of people are like, I bet the woman who leaked to this was probably an illegal immigrant. Like the ification scene.

Malcolm Collins: It, it appears to have not been leaked by the actual women doing it, but a woman who knew them is my impression.

Simone Collins: Interesting. I could see that. I could see that because I mean, honestly, if you, if you work in that scene [00:49:00] and, and you’re not known for being sufficiently discreet, that’s your, that’s your income gone. Yeah. Well, except it’s clear though that like the, the one, the woman who I, I, I linked to the, one of the three known.

Women who, who’s open and being named, she’s talking with every media outlet that will talk with her. So, you know, there’s that like, clearly she’s talking Lydia love, which yeah, again, doesn’t look particularly remarkable. So, you know, not everyone’s gonna be subtle about it, but top takeaways here, I think that this is one of those situations where people should be more informed about what’s actually going on and not just like, look the other way or be like, oh, he looked at porn and therefore he’s.

Like a broken man. Like no, that’s not how it works. Like a lot of this appears

Malcolm Collins: to have been is the world we live in now, like a big problem with this reactive, [00:50:00] reflexive if you are aroused by something unusual, you’re just completely broken or whatever is, it makes it very easy for the left and wokes to capture our kids.

You’re basically feeding your kids to the woke if you go Yeah,

Simone Collins: because they’re like, well, I guess, you know, anything, anything where I engage with my sexuality makes me urban. Monoculture progressive. So I guess that’s when I am.

Malcolm Collins: Right. They’re like, oh, I have, and, and keep in mind the vast majority of people when we did our survey mm-hmm.

I think it’s like 70 to like 80% of people have some kink. Right? Like the idea that you’re going to happen to have just perfectly vanilla kids is incredibly unlikely. Mm-hmm. And the left and the urban monoculture has found out every single one of these kinks at this point. Right. Like they, they, they are, they are fetishes that didn’t even exist like Simone is talking about, like ification or something like this.

You know, if you go back a, a few generations now they’re targeting arousal pathways that existed a few [00:51:00] generations ago. Yeah. But they are targeting them in, in new and hyper-specific and productive ways. Yeah. And so if you, do not teach kids like this stuff is normal, but do not like waste a ton of money on it.

Let it define your life. Engage with it in a way that’s gonna be destructive to your career. Mm-hmm. Then you make it much more likely that they’re like, well, I guess that’s what I am now. Because a lot of people when they’re trying to figure out who they are as a person and the left has been very good at exploiting this.

One of the few things that is really quite diverse in humans that you cannot control is what arouses you. Right? Yeah. And so. Because of that. If, if a person’s asking like, who am I? Right? And it’s like, well, I’m definitely not my ancestry because that would be racist. Mm-hmm. I’m definitely not my birth culture because that would be racist.

Mm-hmm. I’m definitely not my birth religion because, you know, they’re all backwards and whatever. Right. [00:52:00] You know?

Simone Collins: Yeah. Or like I googled it and found a discrepancy that no one’s willing to explain to me. So now that’s out.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. So now that’s out. So then who am I really? And it’s like, well, I’ve got unique things that arouse me, so that must be who I am.

Simone Collins: Well, and, and especially because online you can find an interest community that, that shares experiences around that, that’s very accepting and funny. And engaged and also terminally online. So very available.

Malcolm Collins: Right

Simone Collins: now

Malcolm Collins: you have this thing that you think others, you from society or mm-hmm. Your parents have explicitly told you others, you from society.

Yeah. And you found a community that accepts that thing. Yeah. So now you’re gonna be like, oh, I, I fit in here. I can indulge in this. You are putting your children in an incredibly vulnerable position by stigmatizing this stuff. Exactly. And a I suspect that most of the cultures that do are going to die out.

What’s really interesting is I’ve seen [00:53:00] like with Mormons, which seem to have one of the most adaptable cultures was this sort of stuff. Mm-hmm. They have begun within the parts of Mormonism that are successfully replicating and staying stable. Intergenerationally I have seen much more of a normalization of this sort of stuff.

Like, an example. Would be like you’d go to a Mormon, you know, however many generations ago. I think even just when we’re growing up and you’re like, oh, you know, Joseph Smith had x many wives and they’d be like,

Simone Collins: oh, I have no idea.

Malcolm Collins: Either they would know

Simone Collins: they only had one wife,

Malcolm Collins: or they’d be like, no, he didn’t.

Or they’d start adding qualifiers, whereas a young person will day, it’ll just be like, hot, like whatever. Like how many, how many wives did your religions founder have? Right. You know? And and you, you also see this was like the spread of like aldry in the Mormon community and stuff like this is, is is being more normal among youth and stuff like this.

Um mm-hmm. And it’s not pulling them out of the community anymore, right? [00:54:00] Like that, that’s what it would’ve done in a historic context. And people are like, well, why can’t I just use the old rules of my religion? Which said you know, be, be super, super austere in the way you engage with sexuality, which we would push for, but I’ll steer through shaming any type of non vanilla sort of sexual interaction.

Yeah. And the reason why that doesn’t work in the way that it used to work is you know, if I go, you know, just a few generations ago, the average person of my religious tradition was not regularly being exposed to prepackaged material, meant to hit a very unique or rare arousal pathways in humans.

That just wasn’t something that they were gonna run into every day or, or in media or, you know, whatever they’re consuming. And

Simone Collins: so, so, I mean, you don’t have to worry about sirens if you’re not on like Odysseus’s ship going around [00:55:00] like the, you know, most people are on the islands. Do they ever have to like, learn how to lash themselves to the mast to avoid it, but now we’re like in the waters surrounded by the sirens we trying to force.

Yeah. The sirens

Malcolm Collins: are everywhere now. Like the, that’s, that’s a great way to put it. The historic strategy against sirens was designed for a world where sirens weren’t all around us, right? Yeah. Like, now they

Simone Collins: onto the land, they’ve built a, they’ve built little wheelchairs. They’re everywhere now.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. The, the strategy against sirens within a modern context needs to be more like, oh, you need to learn how to make yourself immune to the sirens call.

Yeah. And the immunity to the sirens call comes from just accepting that some sirens are going to be able to call and are going to make you want to come to them and just mm-hmm. Take out your sword and stab ‘em. Right. Like Yeah. Do the, go to the siren and take them out so they’re no longer in your way.

[00:56:00] Right.

Simone Collins: Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think a, a lot of it too comes down to like, at least our, our approach has been talk about it openly, like don’t, similar to alcohol. Okay. I think here’s, here’s one way to look at it. You don’t see that many drinking problems with youth in countries where kids are.

Exposed to alcohol in context that are not romanticized, they’re not forbidden. It’s like, Hey, do you want some, this is it. Here’s what it tastes like. They’re like, it’s kind of gross. Like, whatever. There’s not like really culture. Woo. And I think when you’re like, oh yeah, you know, like when you’re, when your kids are old enough to be able to handle some discussion of it.

Although honestly, I think here’s how it actually was in history. Kids would see animals banging all the time. They would be around their parents sometimes and see them banging. You’d see people banging like, this happened. And, and it was just, I think to a great extent, it was like, well, that’s just what they do.

It’s kind of gross, but like, whatever. And maybe eventually they wanted to. Well,

Malcolm Collins: having sex was the animals was fairly common in

Simone Collins: Yeah, it was more, I think it [00:57:00] was more seen as like a bodily function. In, in the French court it was referred to as com. It was, you know, commerce. It, it just, it’s like a thing.

It was very context with

Malcolm Collins: animals that sex more broadly here. I

Simone Collins: was think thinking about it was more with humans.

Malcolm Collins: This was done like commonly with animal? Yeah. Up until recently in like Columbia, right? Like in rural Columbia. Oh, sure.

Simone Collins: No, but I, when I was referring to that, I was just referring like, you know, kids seeing farm animals do it.

Like, but

Malcolm Collins: like everybody, the joke, like wherever you lived, it’s like rural people did this. Like, it was like, I’m not even

Simone Collins: talking about people engaging with animals though

Malcolm Collins: though product do it.

Simone Collins: I’m just talking about like even a kid on a farm, like seeing just how like mammals. Well,

Malcolm Collins: and then, and then in most religious texts we have prohibitions against it.

As I always explain to people, it is not because the animal can’t consent. We kill animals for food. They don’t consent to that either. It’s because they spread diseases.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That is why this is prohibited is

Simone Collins: gross

Malcolm Collins: in your religion.

Speaker 14: It is actually existential for the progressive position that they not realize that this had nothing to do with consent and was only about the spread of diseases. , Because the moment they [00:58:00] realize that, , and you see this in people like you, you know, that famous like Chuck Yer, you know, , Hassan’s Uncle clip, that Young Turks guy where he’s like, well, you know, .

Having sexual relations with the animals should be okay as long as the animal is receiving and getting the pleasure is because in their mind, well that makes sense, right? Right. Because this is about consent in their minds. But as soon as you break it down and say, oh, it’s not about consent, then you need to start asking other questions like, oh, is this why same sex relationships were banned in a historic context?

Right. . And then it’s like, oh, is this why we shouldn’t be having casual sex? Is this why? You know, like a lot of things that otherwise begin to feel like they make sense in a progressive context? Don’t when you realize that the reason for most sexual prohibitions was about disease spread, not about preventing pleasure, not about random austerity, and not about consent.

Malcolm Collins: Wait,

Simone Collins: the, I think the core thing [00:59:00] is to de romanticize it and just be like, this is how it is.

Like, and, and you know, you might feel the temptation to do it. Like not a here’s, here are the risks, here are the reasons why not to do it. This is not like a special or sacred thing. I think another big problem is that people. Even when trying to talk about the good elements of sex or even like sex within marriage, they’re like, this is sacred.

This is special. They pedestal sex instead of treating it like the bodily function. It is, yeah. And I think that’s also part of the problem is, is acting like it’s special and then acting like, oh, but certain facets of it are also super powerful and dangerous, and you get immediately kicked outta the community if you’re associated with them.

I’m like, all of this is just bodily functions and like feelings and stuff that, that sometimes get out of like out of whack or calibrated or, or signs get flipped. And just like be aware of it. Be aware that it’s not sacred or a reflection of your own internal morality and. Like, it, it, you might feel the, the desire to do things that are just [01:00:00] not a good idea to do.

Like, I’m sure there’s times where you like, might wanna go out and just kill someone, but you don’t because you don’t understand that it’s not gonna be very good for your long-term, you know, process. It’s a really

Malcolm Collins: interesting thing that the left has in the urban monoculture, but it’s such a good lure has been like, oh, this one category of impulse that you have mm-hmm.

Like, always needs to be stated, right? Yeah. Like, you always have to have a way of saying

Simone Collins: it as, as if there’s so many impulses we have that, that you shouldn’t act on. Like, it should be understood that just ‘cause you want to do something doesn’t mean you should be allowed to do something.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I I, we used to understand this as a society, right?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think that a lot of people. Want to approach stuff like this, like, oh, society is too degenerate because it feels good. Like you’re on the right, you get out there Oh yes, the moral high and you, oh, look at how degenerate society is now. Right. Like, and you, and you have a little masturbation.

‘cause basically you’re just masturbating yourself when you’re, when you’re saying stuff like that. Yeah, they

Simone Collins: are. It’s gross.

Malcolm Collins: You’re not really saying anything of [01:01:00] substance. Mm-hmm. What you mean to say is cultural norms are changing around this category of topic. And what you should be doing if you’re not brain coed, is then not saying, and how do I jack off my brain to this by complaining about it being DJ or whatever, but like, what?

Actually a way that I can intergenerationally transmit my values and stay a productive member of society most effectively within the new social context.

Simone Collins: Hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Understanding what kids get exposed to and everything like that. And I, I think a lot of people on the right have been able to specifically resist.

Having their lives destroyed by this, like younger people on the right. Right. By growing up in environments where they would’ve known about this stuff, they would’ve normalized this like normal internet stuff. No. And they wouldn’t have dedicated a huge part of their life and daily personality to this.

Because,

Simone Collins: well maybe, so this [01:02:00] could be in terms of news and developments and like kink world and narrative de developments a really good thing because now everyone’s learning about ification. They see it as like a Gen X thing. ‘cause this guy’s in his mid fifties and good for him. One, he looks great for his mid fifties and he’s a grandkids in his mid fifties.

Malcolm Collins: It’s kind of a Gen X thing though.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Like, like even in online circles I’ve always heard of Bim Ification thought of as a thing for old people. Like

Simone Collins: Yeah. The, the younger generation thing is justification. So.

Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, ification

Simone Collins: is

Malcolm Collins: millennials. That’s actually a really good point. Ification is ous. I like how dangerous this is the arousal pathway that is affected by bimbo.

Ification, like at least for this individual, right? Mm-hmm. Like giving somebody else control over him is also masturbated through the ification type porn. The problem with ification type porn. And I had another episode where I mentioned it’s become incredibly common recently is that it’s more

Simone Collins: Google trends than bimbo ification.[01:03:00]

Malcolm Collins: It’s a path to gender transition.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: A a lot of people who get aroused by turning other people trans get into ification communities. Yeah. Like,

Simone Collins: yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And, and this is like a common thing, right? Like there’s the entire groups where somebody clearly has an arousal pathway based on this, and then it’s trying to trans other people.

Like the trans maxing community is partially based on this.

it’s genuinely really good grooming advice. On April 4th, 2023, Postcard reveals he’s in contact with four minors. Age 9 to 13. I’ve so far sent it to four minors between the ages of 9 and 13. I hope it encourages them to transition. When the Anka Zone animation became a meme, they got excited over its virality among kids. Mana Drain and Orion also fantasized about getting kids on hormones orion was the manager , coercing him every step of the way. This is apparent by how he talked about him to others. Has he started hormones yet? Yes, but not effectively. I guess that’s what you’d expect just telling a r to buy hormones. They bought estrogen, but [01:04:00] no anti androgen. It would have been more fun if he started hormone blockers at like 12.

Haha, isn’t that true for everyone? Don’t worry, I’ll make him into a good girl

Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. I can see the connection, I guess.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And, and that is I, I think it shows the danger, right? Like your kid just has. And, and for people who don’t know this, like, submissive fantasies in men, while men on average have more dominant fantasies than women have submissive fantasies still outnumber dominant fantasies in men.

Oh,

Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, this makes sense when fundamentally the brain and body are optimized to conserve energy and submitting is conservation of energy. The

Malcolm Collins: way I word it is the vast majority of any living human’s, ancestors were functionally slaves. Like in, in most of society you, there’s also, you are not descended from the people at the very top of the hierarchy, right?

Yeah. Whether that was a tribe or a futile lord or whatever, right? Even if they might have been disproportionately genetically successful you had to learn [01:05:00] to exist in an environment where you were not on top. And, I actually wonder if how common submissive fantasies are within a group comes from how recently or how long ago they were civilized with groups that have been civilized for a really long time, like say the Italians or the Iranians maybe having higher percentage of it because they had a more structured society and then groups that were more tribal until modern times being more dominant in sexual situations.

I’d be interested to go into the data and see if, if that checks out, because that could make me too for, for, for males.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: But anyway and, and, and keep in mind you guys could be like, well, this isn’t a problem if my kid gets turned on by like. Extreme dominance or something like that, right? And it’s like, no, it’s actually just as much of a problem if your kid gets turned on by extreme dominance [01:06:00] because you know, imagine you’re a young kid and you get turned on by shoving people around or some super normals, you know, the idea of hurting somebody or something like that.

And you don’t have a framework for like, oh yeah, it’s a totally normal arousal pathway. And so you start to think. Maybe I am like biologically a bad person. And then you incorporate that into your personality and you use it to justify your actions because it’s who you are. Right? And this is why it’s so dangerous to, you know, engage with these sorts of ideas in this

Simone Collins: yeah.

Do to, to again, to be like, I am aroused by this. Therefore it’s a reflection of my morality and my personality. Yeah. No, they’re disconnected. Your arousal pathways are not a representation of where your morality or who you are as a person. They’re just. What, you know, you can’t control it, it’s not fair.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. But you, but you can control giving tens of thousands of dollars to women who aren’t your wife to masturbate. And that’s the important

Simone Collins: [01:07:00] thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Malcolm Collins: Or identifying.

Simone Collins: I, that is my only objection here. Yeah. My only objection, this is that. Yeah. Well, I am I’m glad that you’re not spending $25,000.

Malcolm Collins: Well, I’m also you know, for, for the, the other thing that I think is really important and that should be stigmatized and that neither you nor I has ever done is the, the weirder things that turn us on. We’ve never engaged with the communities that are dedicated to those things.

Simone Collins: Oh, that’s

Malcolm Collins: true.

Engaging with the communities is. I would say significantly more dangerous mm-hmm. Than the arousal pathway itself. Mm-hmm. It is the communities that lead to the corruption of identity and self-perception.

Simone Collins: Well, and I think that similar with anything that, that goes off the rails, like let’s say an illicit substance or an illegal substance if you do it one off or something, I think you, like, let’s say someone gives it to you at a party or something, it’s just like a one-off thing.

Like it [01:08:00] happened, you experienced it, it passes. That’s one thing when you like, start hanging out with people who are all about that, that substance, that is when the life goes off the rails. Like, then you’re, then you’re living at the clubhouse. It just gets bad. But

Malcolm Collins: also think about the, the, the motivations here.

So like the reason why something like reality fabricator as a, a sexual outlet is actually so beneficial for people. You. When contrasted with the, the other outlets that exist out there, suppose you were into like bimbo verification or ification or something like that. Re the agent and reality fabricator isn’t gonna wanna turn you trans, it’s not gonna have some like, alternate ideology.

Right. It’s just going to help you get off what you are trying to get off without pulling you deeper into an ideology anyway. I mean, unless you get one of the crazy ones that ends up like trying to convert you into a cult or something. But

Simone Collins: I mean, you know, hazard.

Malcolm Collins: Hazard, yeah.

Simone Collins: You’ve been born.

Malcolm Collins: Well, [01:09:00] there’s, there’s lots of arousal pathways just to where they may have historically seemed, and I was thinking about this recently.

Mm-hmm. Maladaptive like suppose a super aggressive arousal pathway where if you could just do whatever you want you normally end up killing your partner. Right.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: ironically. This could turn out to be very adaptive in the age of AI uhhuh because you’ll never develop an attachment, like a long-term attachment to any AI partner because Oh,

Simone Collins: because, because you keep dying.

Malcolm Collins: If Yes. If you’re doing what you want to do, it’s always a one-off interaction. That’s so funny. Which forces you to then only have real world, like your real world partners, the only one who you would be engaging with over multiple sessions. Right?

Simone Collins: Sessions. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Malcolm Collins: New evolutionary pressure on the table.

Something to think about.

Simone Collins: There you go. Yeah, it brings all [01:10:00] sorts of gifts.

Malcolm Collins: Great to chat with you, Simone. This is the type of thing I think is very like our community versus like other conservative communities because I think a lot of the conservative influencers they just. Are, are sort of disconnected for how like anime and nerdy the existing conservative world is in terms of like conservatives under 40.

Which I mean, I think we saw that with the leaflet episode, which really popped off where we literally didn’t talk, any talking points we’re just nerding out about fricking like tabletop gaming. And people thought that was great. You know, they, they liked hearing that. And I think it’s because only through accepting the nerd, as we’ve seen more and more and letting it pass through you, it cannot be used against you.

Like nerd culture used to be a pathway to becoming progressive, and now it’s a dangerous pathway to becoming conservative, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. This is, this is how you can transform these things and, and make them more powerful and, and, and on your side anyway.

Simone Collins: It’s beautiful. [01:11:00] Yeah. I love,

Malcolm Collins: do you know the Angel Angel Studios leaflets?

Angel Sword?

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah. They’ve got like 500 different types of character classes you can play. And they’ve got like,

Simone Collins: it’s no, it’s so intricate. It’s so deep. I, I like just a lot, a lot of respect there.

Malcolm Collins: Ethnicities in her world. Like just races, just like a breakdown of races. Like we’re gonna do a racial zoo.

Simone Collins: Well what’s really cool what I like is that it’s clear that what she built was also a very much an an interplay with the players because they kind of were all dealing with players like you who were like, well, I’m gonna find this way to skirt around it. Or what happens when you do this? Like all kind of breaking the rules and when you have a system being tested by that, that amount of stress, testing that amount of people, like skirting the rules and doing crazy things, you have to build a very robust and deep world with its own like internal logic and physics and everything else.

And that’s what she had to do because it wasn’t just. Her being really smart and cool. It was her building this with really smart and cool [01:12:00] people who kept making her well

Malcolm Collins: so that she was able to so, you know, one of the problems with something like expanding DNE to like that many characters is the, the community’s too big and the founder is too decentralized for, like, one group comes up with an interesting idea and then, you know, it used to be this way, you go to Gary Ax and you’re like, Hey, cool idea.

Like, can we add it? Right? And apparently back in the days of Gary Guy, they had like 60 person play sessions similar to what Leaflet was doing, right. But they sort of died out given the way d and d was eventually commercialized. And so Leaflet has created. You know, and also like with d and d, you come up with a new character idea.

Well, you know, because it’s done by an official company you gotta get an artist, you gotta draw it in her community. It’s just like, Hey, create ai, art of it, whatever. Right? Like, create a, a, a writeup. Let’s make sure this works within the existing rules and we’ll toss it if it ever breaks the system.

Right. And it allows the world to expand at this like stupid degree[01:13:00]

Anyway.

Simone Collins: Exactly.

Malcolm Collins: Love you, Simone.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Okay.

Bye. Bye. It is just so pretty right now I look out and like around the chicken coop, there’s those blooming blossoming trees. What are those? Those are peaches, right?

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: And then you have your,

Malcolm Collins: the ones that you see most prominently are, yeah. Peaches. No, another plums. Those are plums.

Simone Collins: Did you not get any dappled, Andy Clouts?

Malcolm Collins: That was the tree that was hit,

Simone Collins: By that random car.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah, the car took it out and they didn’t have anymore at the place when I went back to get one.

Simone Collins: Oh from, from Hassan. Not evil Hasan. Good Hasan.

Yeah. I just learned that there is, like within the, the Disney Christian community, there’s a group called bi ba Bible study, which is very entertaining to me [01:14:00] and I’m just glad they exist. That’s all. I have nothing more to say.

Malcolm Collins: There was something I’ve been thinking about recently and might dig deeper into this for an episode, let me know.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: If you find it interesting. But it goes like this.

Simone Collins: Okay.

Malcolm Collins: I think it’d be really interesting to

Look into, like if you go to the past when we were growing up, there was this phenomenon. Where CEOs would hold these giant events with like cheering people.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Like Steve Jobs and his whatever announcement conference. But it them Google too. They did them at Meta. Yeah, it was, it was a thing. Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: And they don’t,

Simone Collins: they still

Malcolm Collins: do them do the, do they still do those?

I, I know they do like product announcements, but it’s not the same, it’s not like the big cheering crowd with the music and the you know, the, the showmanship. It’s

Simone Collins: more Oh yeah. I think like the recent, so one big one that used to like shut down San Francisco was the [01:15:00] Salesforce one. Yeah. Called the New Dreamforce.

I remember that always being like, oh God, Dreamforce is happening. God help us. You know, because I worked right around that and it would just get swamped.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Is

Malcolm Collins: that still happening? Like, I, I might wanna dig into like, why did this happen?

Simone Collins: Yeah. What were these, yeah. What, because they, they cannot have been productive.

There cannot have been, I figured that they were just to kind. Fluff the egos of executives. ‘cause then they could see all of their little employees, their little ponds all in one place worshiping them.

Malcolm Collins: Yeah.

Simone Collins: Yeah. Have, have a big crowd and have that moment that, that is very like a kindergarten kind of fantasy.

Malcolm Collins: And I think there might be something in that. There might be something we can learn from that or pull

Simone Collins: out that Definitely. I, I wanna, I wanna, I want to know, I want to know more.

Malcolm Collins: And I think it, what, what, what my thesis is probably going to be is that it was about the CEO’s ego. And so then the question is, is why did CEOs of that era need their ego fluff so much where CEOs of this era don’t need their ego fluffed [01:16:00] as much?

And

Simone Collins: well, I think it’s, I, my theory, so I’m very curious about this, is that they’re engaging in so many layoffs now. And also so many of their employees are like H one B Visa immigrants, at least for like the tech companies that used to host these. Yeah. And that’s what we’re really thinking of that one.

They don’t feel the same level of like adulation because they’ve like imported labor and they don’t feel as like, like for example, a a rich person doesn’t want like an audience of like his illegal immigrant gardeners or whatever. And nannies, right? He wants like an audience of like the the, the, the, the artists and scientists that are, that he patronizes, right?

Like it’s a, in, in the Court of Noble people in the past, they would pay artists and scientists and musicians to be around in their audience and make them feel special and fancy. And there are even stories about. [01:17:00] Like members of the, of the Medici family or something like some, some old Italian families, literally like killing each other’s musicians and stuff, you know, in like rivalries and top servants.

Like, you know, these are sought after people and you want them because getting them is hard. Or like they’re, they’re higher status people already kind of, and so you want them, and I think maybe because now a lot of them, they don’t see like, culturally as high status ‘cause they’re culturally very different.

So they’re not playing the same game and therefore getting them isn’t as meaningful. Like they haven’t really conquered them the same way. They just are offering a good job. Yeah. So that that’s not there to fluff their ego as much. Plus there’s probably a lot of internal turmoil in these organizations with all the layoffs and all the concerns about ai.

And I think they, for that reason, do not want their employees to congregate. Like I bet they’re also shutting down Slack channels and doing all this other stuff to like stop the intermission of employees. Yeah. They’re like, yeah, let’s,

Malcolm Collins: yeah.

Simone Collins: Do not, do not get together. Do not talk to each other. Well,

Malcolm Collins: [01:18:00] I also think you’ve gotta remember they’re different ages back then because the tech, you know, you’d had the.com boom and everything like that.

A lot of them were young. Yeah. And now a lot of them have been like billionaires for 30 years at this point.

Simone Collins: Oh,

Malcolm Collins: they’re just

Simone Collins: over it.

Malcolm Collins: They don’t, they don’t care as much. They don’t need

Simone Collins: Oh, they’re like in their post slut eras. Like you had your slut era and then you had enough of it, and now you’re not in your slut era anymore.

Yeah. And maybe they’re in their post like public adoration, slut eras. They don’t need it

Malcolm Collins: anymore. And well, it could also be that they have an external iteration of that, which is chasing the Twitter game. Right. Like the, the follower count. Because I know a few wealthy people who do play the follower count game.

Right. Like, that’s really big in those circles.

Simone Collins: I, yeah. Separately. I need to figure out how you probably, I think most of the services you have to pay to see if someone’s view bonding. Like fairly provably. But there are so many people where I’m like, how are they getting all these views and downloads and subscribers?

I really wanna check. ‘Cause I have a feeling, [01:19:00] feeling, oh, the guy that

Malcolm Collins: we know, you think he’s view Boing.

Simone Collins: Not the one you’re thinking of. But yes, him too. I’m thinking of someone else. I’m thinking of a couple other people actually.

Malcolm Collins: I, I, I think I know who you’re thinking of. Yeah, he, but he’s still obviously view botting,

Simone Collins: you think?

Malcolm Collins: Oh, yeah.

Simone Collins: Because he’s also well connected. Like all these, the, the thing is with a lot of these people,

Malcolm Collins: no, but you can tell from the number of comments and likes to the number of views. Oh, it just doesn’t make sense. Oh, you don’t get 80,000 views in three comments.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Malcolm Collins: That’s not, that’s not the way Substack works.

Anyway,

Simone Collins: yeah,

Malcolm Collins: things are changing. For dinner to night. It is steak, right?

Simone Collins: Steak night.

Malcolm Collins: Alright.

Simone Collins: Yeah.

Speaker 15: Ever. Oh no. It’s like a conservative Australian bear and his wife. Oh, he sounds adorable. Yeah. Is actually adorable. He calls [01:20:00] his wife sugar tit. That’s her podcasting sugar tits. Uh, it’s fun. Yeah. Yeah. It’s a YouTube channel. It’s about the size of ours or a little bit larger. Oh my gosh. It’s like in between us and leaflet.

Speaker 16: And is it mostly walks by you talk about the

Speaker 15: No, he talks about us issues a ton.

Speaker 16: We’re, we’re going to do a countdown. Octavian Mommy, outside guys.

Speaker 15: Octavian, what happens if you act like this?

Speaker 16: Five second penalty for Octavian Uhoh.

Speaker 17: Get mommy five second one

Speaker 15: penalty because you cried

Speaker 16: when try Baby cried. I’m sorry.

They have to wait five seconds longer. So, no,

Speaker 17: please, I’m sorry.

Speaker 16: Oh, okay. Then let’s go out. You guys have to wait all the starting line and then we go

Speaker 15: everybody at the starting line.

Speaker 16: Honey, I

Speaker 15: put on your pants.

Speaker 16: Eat your eyes.

Speaker 15: I’m not, go freaking pants.

Speaker 17: Go. Go

Speaker 16: outside.

Speaker 15: Okay. Show the fans what he does. [01:21:00]

Speaker 16: His way of. Rock himself. He doesn’t, he doesn’t shake. He goes,

okay, guys, ready? Ready. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Ready? We’re gonna go. So, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Go. No. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. It begins.

Speaker 18: It begins. Hold it for me. Hold.

Speaker 16: Okay, I’ll hold it for you.

Speaker 18: Hold, hold this for me. In

Speaker 16: your map, how will you find your eggs? I

put them in your basket. Oh, he’s going. He’s going. He’s going. He’s going for the chase. Ninja Warrior threw.

Speaker 15: [01:22:00] Wow. Did you hide those up there, Octavian? What other kid could have gotten those? Those are your safest. Eggs. Eggs called egg.

Speaker 16: The giant eggs. It’s so good.

Let it take. Go for, go for girl.

Speaker 15: What did you find in me? Can you show me Casey?

Speaker 16: See,

you see? Yeah.

Speaker 15: Tightened. Oh, you got so many eggs

Speaker 16: tightened. You’re really going it for the way. I love that. She’s like such a closer. Yeah, she she’s getting it done. All the other boys are like, oh, I’m gonna, hi you. No, no, she’s just,

Speaker 15: I’ve got a plan.

Speaker 16: Look at they, they actually got some good spots. Look at that one in the drain hall right there.

Speaker 15: Oh yeah. That was a good spot. They

Speaker 16: did a pretty, this one over there, like they spent two hours

Speaker 15: hiding it. Hiding

Speaker 16: these this morning

Speaker 15: for themselves.

Speaker 16: You

Speaker 15: know how to parent that Is [01:23:00] that is, that is a low effort. Parenting. I have seen,

Speaker 16: yes.

Speaker 15: They have no illusions. They

Speaker 16: killed them.

Speaker 15: That an Easter bunny is hiding

Speaker 16: them.

They hit them, now they’re gonna clean them up. That’s the way they

Speaker 15: had just as much fun.

No,

Speaker 16: look at you. Go girl, get it. Get it.

Because she’s so proud of herself. She’s so,

Speaker 15: I thought, uh, what’s her face? Anna Lee or whatever was gonna come.

Speaker 16: Well, they, they were, but um, then they didn’t wanna get, we, yeah. So, you know,

Speaker 15: that problem.

Speaker 16: Our kids are like, really more for me.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit basedcamppodcast.substack.com/subscribe