Adaptive versus transformational change

In this episode, Andy talks with Richard Carson, author of The Book of Change. If you feel like you barely finish one change before the next one hits, this conversation is for you. Richard shares his deeply researched and battle-tested framework called People Sustained Organizational Change Management, or PSOCM. Unlike many change management books, this is not about certifications or slogans. It is about building a repeatable system to diagnose problems, distinguish adaptive from transformational change, and gain executive traction when support is not automatic.

You will hear why so many change efforts fail before they even begin, how to craft a clear problem statement, and what leaders often misunderstand about the type of change they are facing. Richard also explains why he chose the phrase "People Sustained" and how thinking structurally about change can even help at home.

If you're looking for practical, grounded insights on leading through continuous change, this episode is for you!

• "My advice to you is to anticipate change and manage change before it manages you."
• "Different change models have been introduced in the literature, but there has not been one coherent model for managing organizational change."
• "PSOCM is driven by defined actions with statistical metrics that produce measurable results."
• "You get a free book and the next thing you know you're getting the pitch to hire them at an exorbitant amount of money per hour."
• "Organizations consist of people, and it is the people who are primarily the problem."
• "Change management is proactive. Emergency management is reactive."
• "It is not productive to put the organization on the couch and ask, 'Well, what do you think?'"
• "You can change a process, but you cannot change a person's underlying psychology."
• "You now own it, or it now owns you."

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:40 Start of Interview
• 01:54 Family Culture and Early Influences
• 03:58 Criticisms of Change Management Books and Certifications
• 06:15 Defining Organizational Change Management in Plain Talk
• 07:44 What Surprised Him in the History of Change
• 10:57 Adaptive vs. Transformational Change
• 14:23 Why He Named It People Sustained Organizational Change Management
• 20:03 Problem Identification and Writing Effective Problem Statements
• 24:31 Getting Executive Support When Change Is Not Top Down
• 26:49 When Benefits Do Not Move Leaders
• 28:21 One More Idea to Anticipate Change Before It Manages You
• 30:03 Applying Change Lessons at Home as a Parent
• 31:36 End of Interview
• 32:38 Andy Comments After the Interview
• 35:31 Outtakes

You can learn more about Richard and his work at RichardCarson.org. Make sure to get the free ebook download.

For more learning on this topic, check out:

• Episode 343 with Gary Lloyd. He has a clever metaphor of thinking about change like a gardener, not a mechanic. It's a great discussion that I think you'll find quite practical.
• Episode 344 with Peter Bregman and Howie Jacobson. Their book is about change, but not at the organizational level. They think you can change other people, which sounds presumptuous at the least. But they back that up in the interview so check out episode 344 for more.
• Episode 53 with John Kotter. He's one of the most famous names when it comes to change management. Go way back to episode 53 to hear from John directly.

If you or someone you know is thinking about getting PMP certified, we've put together a helpful guide called The 5 Best Resources to Help You Pass the PMP Exam on Your First Try. We've helped thousands of people earn their certification, and we'd love to help you too. It's totally free, and it's a great way to get a head start.

Just go to 5BestResources.PeopleAndProjectsPodcast.com to grab your copy. I'd love to help you get your PMP this year!

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Talent Triangle: Business Acumen

Topics: Change Management, Organizational Change, Leadership, Executive Sponsorship, Problem Identification, Adaptive Change, Transformational Change, Strategic Thinking, Organizational Culture, Project Leadership, Continuous Improvement, Stakeholder Engagement

The following music was used for this episode:

Music: Lullaby of Light feat Cory Friesenhan by Sascha Ende License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Music: Tropical Vibe by WinnieTheMoog License (CC BY 4.0): https://filmmusic.io/standard-license

Thank you for joining me for this episode of The People and Projects Podcast!