Join Anna Stokke in conversation with Dr. Marcy Stein, professor emeritus from the University of Washington, Tacoma, about her firsthand experience with Direct Instruction (DI) and Project Follow Through—the world’s largest educational experiment. Despite showing DI’s effectiveness with at-risk students, the results were largely ignored.

Marcy shares insights into the origins of DI, its instructional design, and emphasizes that it’s effective for all students, not just those struggling academically. She also addresses common misconceptions, walks through a typical DI math lesson, and gives advice on how to bridge skill gaps in the classroom. This episode unpacks the story of Project Follow Through and the ongoing fight for evidence-based education.

NOTE: The resource page contains resources and research articles mentioned in the episode: annastokke.com/ep-39-resources

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:00] Introduction
[00:03:52] Marcy Stein’s background
[00:07:11] Origins of Direct Instruction
[00:11:26] Overview of Project Follow Through
[00:14:40] Instructional models and results of Project Follow Through
[00:23:30] What makes DI effective?
[00:25:12] Why were the results of PFT ignored?
[00:29:28] Difference between DI and di
[00:31:52] Instructional design in DI
[00:37:50] Pitfalls of multiple strategies
[00:42:55] Understanding instructional delivery in DI
[00:45:51] Managing varying abilities in the classroom
[00:48:28] Addressing prerequisite skills in older students
[00:52:40] Spiral vs. strand curriculum
[00:55:12] A typical DI math lesson structure
[00:59:34] List of DI math programs
[01:01:17] Common misconceptions about DI
[01:05:03] Challenges and resistance to DI
[01:09:02] Role of leaders and faculty in DI implementation
[01:13:51] Final thoughts

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

Ep 34 Transforming education through behaviour science with Kimberly Berens https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-9tfz7-16f2e02

Ep 31 Exploring evidence for equitable education with Nidhi Sachdeva and Jim Hewitt https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-fjdnt-1685615

Ep 20 Reading and math: Parallels and pitfalls with Matthew Burns
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-8aj3f-1508af6

Ep 10 Maximizing learning through explicit instruction with Zach Groshell
https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-px8h6-1443528

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-39-transcript

EPISODE RESOURCES

https://www.annastokke.com/ep-39-resources

MUSIC

Intro and Outro: Coma Media – Catch it
Blue Dot Sessions –Tall Harvey, Little Poder, Momentary Ease, Betty Dear
Podington Bear – Camp, Kitten

Website: www.annastokke.com

X: @rastokke

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

Academic Child Abuse

Mentioned by

Mentioned in 1 episodes

The AI-powered Podcast Player