China's rapid surge in electric vehicle manufacturing, adoption, and export has variously encouraged, delighted, impressed, frightened, and even enraged people around the world. What did China get right in facilitating the explosive development in this industry? Was is just subsidies, or were there other important policies that helped jumpstart it? How have other geographies responded? And what can they learn? Ilaria Mazzocco, deputy director and senior fellow with the Trustee Chair in Chinese Business and Economics at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) joins me to share her rich insights into the Chinese EV industry.

3:49 – How Ilaria became interested in green industrial policy

5:59 – The reality of progress in EVs in China

11:21 – The role of state subsidies and other things that tend to get missed in trying to understand EVs in China

16:51 – How other countries are trying to adopt China’s approach

19:21 – The differences between the EU and U.S. approaches

24:17 – The outlook for competition in the Chinese market

26:08 – Business models in the Chinese EV sector and the example of BYD

30:53 – Chinese firms’ push for internationalization and how the rapidity of becoming multinationals [multinational companies?] may pose challenges

35:54 – Alignment between host countries and Chinese companies

39:58 – What the U.S. is doing and the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA)

42:27 – How U.S. protectionist measures may affect third markets, and whether restrictions may backfire

48:57 – The coming shift to next-generation batteries, and the potential for international collaboration in advancing more circular practices

55:43 – How Ilaria’s fieldwork shifted her perspective on the EV industry

59:38 – How we can improve industrial policy

Recommendations:

Ilaria: My Antonia by Willa Cather; the Wolf Hall trilogy by Hilary Mantel; The Army of Sleepwalkers by Wu Ming (an Italian novelist collective) about the French Revolution

Kaiser: The Wolf Hall audiobooks read by Ben Miles; the HBO series Rome (2005-2007)

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